Is Apheresis an effective treatment for Long Covid and ME?

[Shanti1]

i had an arterial blood gas test done that showed my venous blood oxygen saturation levels were 36%. the reference range for the lab was 70-80%. maybe this is the test he is talking about? having low venous blood oxygen saturation levels certainly lines up well with the tissue hypoxia theory

@dylemmaz would you be willing to share where you had this test done and if it was a blood draw from the extremities? I'm would be interested in having it done myself, but seems the blood needs to be processed as soon as it is drawn.

 

[perrier]

Yes I tried it and it did not help.

Did you do the heparin filter which Dr Jaeger uses? Thank you.

 

[Haru]

Did you do the heparin filter which Dr Jaeger uses? Thank you.

She didn’t try help apharesis. There are different types that serve different purposes. Also just because it doesn’t work for one doesn’t mean it won’t work for another. There are different sub types here.

 

[Canned]

Did you do the heparin filter which Dr Jaeger uses? Thank you.

Nope, plasmaexchange.

Also just because it doesn’t work for one doesn’t mean it won’t work for another.

That is true, I can only speak for myself.

 

[SWAlexander]

@dylemmaz would you be willing to share where you had this test done and if it was a blood draw from the extremities? I'm would be interested in having it done myself, but seems the blood needs to be processed as soon as it is drawn.

Shanti1 "blood needs to be processed as soon as it is drawn" that was done for my husband in the hospital.
as you may know there are differend kinds. The best article came from "Airman Education Programs"

Exerpt: Hypoxia is actually divided into four types: hypoxic hypoxia, hypemic hypoxia, stagnant hypoxia, and histotoxic hypoxia. No matter what the cause or type of hypoxia you experience, the symptoms and effects on your flying skills are basically the same. One factor that makes hypoxia dangerous is its insidious onset; your signs and symptoms may develop so gradually that they are well established before you recognize them. Hypoxia is painless, and the signs and symptoms vary from person to person. To better understand the effects of hypoxia, I will explain each, as well as whether it is the respiratory or circulatory system that is being affected.
more at: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/topics_of_interest/hypoxia/

 

[perrier]

Is there any way to find out if OMF has been in contact with Dr. Jaeger.
@Janet Dafoe

Is it true that Dr. Jaeger treated ME patients?

Thanks.

 

[andyguitar]

Yes, I was told about one there that had been bedbound for seven years and she is up and walking now.
Another from the UK had to have 14 rounds to recover.

Looks like the answer is yes @perrier

 

[perrier]

Looks like the answer is yes @perrier

Looks to me like we urgently more patients to try this. And @Countrygirl I seem to have missed info about this patients requiring 14 rounds. Where can one read more about her? Thanks. Also, if the thinking is the answer MAY be a yes, shouldn't the ME researchers, and OMF etc try to look into this asap. There is a horrific urgency in every household where there is a sick person. Thanks.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Interesting that two recovered even if it was with multiple goes with the machine. I wonder how ozone treatment compares. Not that anyone is going to do a study on that anytime soon!

Thanks andyguitar for quoting.

 

[perrier]

Interesting that two recovered even if it was with multiple goes with the machine. I wonder how ozone treatment compares. Not that anyone is going to do a study on that anytime soon!

Thanks andyguitar for quoting.

We tried ozone, have a machine, nothing positive to report.

 

[Shanti1]

@godlovesatrier @perrier Same here, tried IV ozone and have a machine. I think it was too oxidative for me.

 

[Shanti1]

I just wanted to bring everyone's attention to this thread where Dr. Aguirre-Chang, who either directly uses or at least is very knowledgeable on HELP Apheresis has just replied to these questions: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-effects-on-blood-vessels.85984/#post-2373766

2. The COVID micro-clots seem to be unique in nature as they have high alpha-2antiplasmin, which renders them resistant to breakdown by serine peptidase enzymes (this would include the body's own fibrinolytic enzymes but also nattokinase, serratiopeptidase, and others are serine peptidase enzymes). It seems this resistance is confirmed by the spike-protein mixing with the clot material.

Do you think that non-COVID-induced ME/CFS has resistant clots like this or more so just hypercoagulation of the "normal" variety?

3. For evaluation of hypoperfusion by PET/CT, what tracer is used (SPECT scans aren't always readily available)

4. For SvO2, I'm definitely interested in this test, would it need to be done in a hospital or large clinic setting where they have the equipment on-site for immediate measurement? It s a peripheral draw?

5. Do you know if HELP Apheresis helps non-COVID ME/CFS?

 

[Mary]

I wonder how ozone treatment compares. Not that anyone is going to do a study on that anytime soon!

We tried ozone, have a machine, nothing positive to report.

@godlovesatrier @perrier Same here, tried IV ozone and have a machine. I think it was too oxidative for me.

I'm wondering the same thing about ozone therapy. A doctor's office I know of is offering something called "Ozone Dialysis - 03D infusion" - I know infusion and dialysis are two separate things, but the procedure they're offering actually is a form of dialysis. It filters the blood, removing (among other things) inflammatory proteins, diseased cells and dead cells, and also bathes the blood in a continuous flow of ozone.

So it's different than just an ozone infusion. I had an IV ozone infusion there a few months ago, but they also added glutathione to the mix. I crashed the next day, which was not surprising as it was a 90 minute drive each way, plus about 90 minutes at the clinic. And also, I just felt worse for about 3 days, which could very well have been from the glutathione, which always causes some sort of negative reaction for me. Apart from that, no reaction.

But I am guessing the 03D dialysis would cause a different if not more of a reaction, and also am wondering if it's safe - Anyone?

From what I can tell, this is a reputable well-run clinic. I've seen one of the doctors a few times with telemed appts and once in person - she seems quite knowledgeable. They take Medicare and other insurance and believe it or not, they said Medicare would cover $300 of the cost of the 03D dialysis - total cost is $700 so my share would be $400. Steep but not out of sight.

 

[Mary]

A bit more on ozone and Covid-19 - Ozone autohemotherapy was used to successfully treat 3 Covid-19 patients in Spain who

present to a hospital emergency department in Ibiza, Spain, with severe COVID-19 pneumonia and respiratory failure and are given an unproven -- and possibly dangerous -- treatment: oxygen-ozone (O2-O3) therapy -- also called ozonated autohemotherapy, which has been used to treat gout and involves intravenous infusion of ozonated autologous whole blood.

Desperate Times for Pandemic Lead to... Ozone? | MedPage Today

The article starts out with "danger, danger, ozone!" statements with no basis. And then goes on to report how it saved these people's lives and they didn't have to go on ventilators. The article explains the believed mechanism of action for ozone, and further stated:

In addition, the authors said, ozone therapy could theoretically decrease the hypercoagulation phenomena associated with COVID-19 by improving the rheology and capillary action of blood, which has been reported to be beneficial in ischemic vascular diseases.

The official report of these cases:

Potential Role of Oxygen–Ozone Therapy in Treatment of COVID-19 Pneumonia - Get your full text copy in PDF #925849 | American Journal of Case Reports (amjcaserep.com)

The full report is here: 925849.pdf

 

[Countrygirl]

Looks to me like we urgently more patients to try this. And @Countrygirl I seem to have missed info about this patients requiring 14 rounds. Where can one read more about her? Thanks. Also, if the thinking is the answer MAY be a yes, shouldn't the ME researchers, and OMF etc try to look into this asap. There is a horrific urgency in every household where there is a sick person. Thanks.

That information was given in one of the videos, I believe, but I have emails from Asad, and Dr Weir has been speaking to Dr Jaeger on the phone. They hope to produce a paper eventually. Dr Weir is having his clinic in my home this next weekend so I may hear more then.

 

[SNT Gatchaman]

We had discussed the abnormally low venous oxygen saturations earlier in the thread. I just looked back at my allegedly "normal" blood tests from my first hospital admission in Jan. (This was probably my first POTS/ME crash after slowly going off from my usual healthy form over Nov/Dec 2020).

Remember the normal reference range for SvO2 is 60-80% (70% if it were taken from the internal jugular vein). Mine was from my right antecubital fossa (elbow level).

22% !

That's even worse than Dr. Khan's

 

[SWAlexander]

Is it posible ME/CFS comes from a pathogen attack and still lingers in our body?
Could it be Giardia lamblia, never detected or even looked for giardiasis?
Did anybody had a stool test for Giardia lamblia? I was only tested for C-Dif and came out pos.
A petri dish laced with all bacteria and blood from ME/CFS people could bring a inclusive or exclusive answer.
This article has a hint.
"Study Shows That Fibromyalgia is a Post-infectious Disease Too"
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/10/27/fibromyalgia-post-infectious-disease/

 

[SWAlexander]

Please consider reading: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/time-to-act-contact-senator-markey.85995/

 

[godlovesatrier]

Ozone oxygen makes me sick these days. Thanks for the replies re ozone blood machines.

 

[Reading_Steiner]

If viruses precipitate this hypothetical issue ( in us ) then wouldn't we expect to see more 'crashes' at a time when virus infections are at their peak i.e. winter ? has anyone tried to collect statistical data on this that we can refer to ? I've noticed before that i'm generally healthier in the summer time but I put it down to temperature and other factors.