Hydrogen Rich Water for ME/CFS - Friedberg Pilot Study

[Mary]

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...water-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-friedberg/

 

[Hip]

I found hydrogen rich water (HRW) only works for one of my ME/CFS symptoms: the emotional or stress sensitivity symptom of ME/CFS. But it works quite well for this.

I think it may work for emotional sensitivity as HRW has an effect on the hypothalamus, which is a stress and emotional center of the brain.

The benefits of HRW tend to kick in within an hour or so of drinking it. If I have one of those days where you feel oversensitive to everything, I'll make some hydrogen rich water and drink it.

Hydrogen rich water is just regular water with some hydrogen (H2) gas dissolved in it (much in the same way as carbonated water has CO2 dissolved in it).

I've been using HRW for a few years now, and figured out my own method of making it for just a few cents a liter. It was quite interesting leaning all the science necessary to develop this method.

I outlined my method in this post and video on the Longecity.org forum. This method creates a liter of HRW in about 45 minutes (I've now got an improved method though, which creates HRW in about 5 minutes).

You can also buy tablets that you can use to make hydrogen rich water, but these always seemed quite overpriced, and it was this expense which motivated me to make my own HRW for next to nothing.

 

[Mary]

@Hip - I watched your video, very interesting, short (as you said) and an easy technique!

fwiw, I've been taking Cellfood for probably about 6 weeks. I did a thread about it here. It's giving me more energy overall, plus helping my immune system, which is huge, as I am almost always fighting a low grade sinus infection, and this is helping.

Supposedly Cellfood splits water into hydrogen and oxygen in our bodies, which is how it produces its benefits. I had thought I was getting more oxygen, which was helping create more energy, but had not thought of the potential benefits of more hydrogen.

I'm sure there are no clinical trials of Cellfood so I don't have proof it works, but I've tried dozens/hundreds of things over the last 22 years, and only a handful have made a noticeable difference for me, and this is one of them.

 

[Learner1]

From some other medical sources, the hydrogen in these hydrogen waters is supposed to quench hydroxyl radicals, which are OH-. This feature is especially useful if one has iron problems which create the hydroxyl radicals through Fenton reactions.

I guess I wonder how many hydrogen atoms out body contains vs what one can drink in a glass.

 

[Hip]

From some other medical sources, the hydrogen in these hydrogen waters is supposed to quench hydroxyl radicals, which are OH-. This feature is especially useful if one has iron problems which create the hydroxyl radicals through Fenton reactions.

Interestingly enough, there has been some debate (not yet resolved), as to whether the benefits of hydrogen rich water (HRW) arise from the antioxidant ability of the hydrogen (H2), and/or because of another effect of HRW: namely that as HRW hits the stomach, it induces the release of the ghrelin from the stomach, a hormone which is neuroprotective and has a stimulatory effect on the hypothalamus.

Here is a paper from Nature which shows that the neuroprotective effect of hydrogen rich water on a mouse model of Parkinson's disease comes from its ability to stimulate ghrelin release.

The HPA axis is thought to be hypoactive in ME/CFS, so if hydrogen rich water can stimulate the hypothalamus via ghrelin, it may have some benefits for this disease.

 

[Tammy]

@Mary Have you ever heard of megahydrate? It delivers negatively charged hydrogen ions to the cells when you add the powder or capsule to water. I love it as it really does give me a lift and I can also see the difference in my crepe like skin. My skin went to shit a few years back. Also, I continuously feel dehydrated when I don't take it. phisciences.com

 

[Mary]

@Mary Have you ever heard of megahydrate? It delivers negatively charged hydrogen ions to the cells when you add the powder or capsule to water. I love it as it really does give me a lift and I can also see the difference in my crepe like skin. My skin went to shit a few years back. Also, I continuously feel dehydrated when I don't take it. phisciences.com

Hi @Tammy - no, I've never heard of this. It's rather pricey - how long does it last? Do you feel like it's made any significant difference for your ME/CFS? In any event, that's great to hear it helped your skin so much!

 

[Tammy]

Do you feel like it's made any significant difference for your ME/CFS?

I don't know about significant. All I can say is when I stop taking it (I can't always afford ).......I can tell the difference. Sorry I don't know how to explain the difference.

 

[Mary]

I don't know about significant. All I can say is when I stop taking it (I can't always afford ).......I can tell the difference. Sorry I don't know how to explain the difference.

I wonder if Cellfood would have the same effect for you? It's $27 a month, taking it 3 x a day, though some people need less.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Have you ever heard of megahydrate?

Thank you for this @Tammy. I have a friend who's adamant about hating water and never, in the 30 odd years I've known her, drinking enough of it. She might be induced to if she could see the kind of difference you've mentioned in this post.

I'd never run across MegaHydrate before, and her b'day is coming up, soooooo .... gift problem solved !!!

 

[Mary]

SEVENTEEN POSTS WHICH HAD GONE OFF-TOPIC PERTAINING TO CELLFOOD HAVE BEEN MOVED FROM THIS THREAD TO Good reaction to Cellfood- may be oxygenating the body, helping my immune system

 

[Learner1]

This article discusses reducing oxidative stress from hydroxyl radicals as I mentioned to above:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3788323/

 

[mariovitali]

@Hip

Thank you for mentioning Ghrelin which has been identified as a research target by the techniques i use :

https://algogenomics.blogspot.com/2...da-antagonists.html?showComment=1584100511360

Interestingly, i also saw a mention on Glutamate in the post of HealthRising which is also a highly interesting research target.

EDIT : I ordered an H2 generator and will report here.

 

[Tammy]

Thank you for this @Tammy. I have a friend who's adamant about hating water and never, in the 30 odd years I've known her, drinking enough of it. She might be induced to if she could see the kind of difference you've mentioned in this post.

I'd never run across MegaHydrate before, and her b'day is coming up, soooooo .... gift problem solved !!!

You mentioned your friend hating water. It's hard for me to drink water too.........although I force myself and get plenty of liquids (I think). When I add the megahydrate capsules to my water..........I can drink a glass with no problem at all. It goes down so smoothly and effortlessly and I find I want more. It isn't forced.

phisciences has been out of megahydrate for awhile but it should be back in stock next week. I don't know if it will be on the label this time or not..............but someone from phisciences told me it is best to empty however many capsules you decide to use into the water and then drink. I am going to get the powder vs the caps this time. I would start out low and work up. Note: It took me at least 2 - 3 weeks to start noticing a difference. For me, I think proper hydration has been important and I think perhaps it's allowing the other supps I take to work more efficiently. I never understood why I could drink and drink...........but still never feel hydrated. What's that all about I wonder?

 

[Hip]

I ordered an H2 generator and will report here.

What type of machine did you order? Some only produce low concentrations of H2, whereas others produce high concentrations.

The method I use (pressurized bottle method) produces H2 concentrations of 5 ppm (I was able to measure the H2 concentration in the water directly). Some methods however only produce 1 ppm or lower, if the water is not pressurized. For example, you can buy hydrogen rich water sticks which you place in a glass of water, but these will only produce around 1 ppm or less.

Pressure in the bottle is the important factor: Henry’s Law (from physics) states that the concentration of a gas dissolved in water is proportional to the pressure applied. That's why high concentration hydrogen rich water makers use a pressure bottle.

 

[mariovitali]

What type of machine did you order? Some only produce low concentrations of H2, whereas others produce high concentrations.

The method I use (pressurized bottle method) produces H2 concentrations of 5 ppm (I was able to measure the H2 concentration in the water directly). Some methods however only produce 1 ppm or lower, if the water is not pressurized. For example, you can buy hydrogen rich water sticks which you place in a glass of water, but these will only produce around 1 ppm or less.

Pressure in the bottle is the important factor: Henry’s Law (from physics) states that the concentration of a gas dissolved in water is proportional to the pressure applied. That's why high concentration hydrogen rich water makers use a pressure bottle.

I will PM you the one i ordered . 5 ppm is a very good content from what i understand, i saw your video (Thank you by the way). I went for the purchase of a generator because i wanted to be able to take it along with me.

I

 

[Learner1]

@Hip I read the post and saw the video. But did I miss where the amounts of ingredients are? I think I'd use apple cider vinegar and I'm a little stumped on magnesium powder. I take magnesium malate so I'm confused about magnesium powder. How do you get one that isn't contaminated with arsenic as so much magnesium is? And why magnesium at all? Can one use something else?

 

[Hip]

@Hip I read the post and saw the video. But did I miss where the amounts of ingredients are

If you are using my old method of a rod of magnesium metal placed in a test tube containing a solution of citric acid in water, then you use 3 grams of citric acid powder. Or you can just fill the test tube with vinegar instead of citric acid and water.

Magnesium rods of 99.99% purity you can buy on eBay.



But I've got a new method of creating hydrogen rich water now which uses magnesium shavings (tiny grains of magnesium) rather than a magnesium rod.

Magnesium shavings create a faster reaction when mixed with the acid (due to more surface area of magnesium, compared to a rod), and this means you can make a bottle of hydrogen rich water in just 5 minutes. With the magnesium rod the reaction is slower, taking about 45 minutes to create enough H2 gas.

So I will explain this new method here, as I think it is better. Though the general concept is the same as old method shown in my video.


If you search eBay for magnesium shavings or magnesium turnings, you may find these small grains of magnesium for sale. They are also to be found on the UK eBay.

You want shavings which are quite small if possible, about the size of sugar grains — ie, about 0.5 to 1 mm in size, which corresponds to powder mesh size 35 to 18. You can also search for magnesium powder mesh 20, or mesh 25 for example.

These magnesium shavings will react quite fast with the acid, but not too fast. If the shavings are a little larger than sugar grains, then the reaction will be a bit slower, but it's still OK.

This is what 1 mm (18 mesh) magnesium shavings looks like:

You should be able to buy 100 grams of such magnesium shavings for about $10.

I also tried fine magnesium powder, which has an even higher surface area, but with this the reaction with citric is far too fast, it almost explodes and gets very hot.

Citric acid powder you can buy at many places pretty cheaply, for example Amazon. As a substitute, you can instead use vinegar if you like. And malic acid powder (used in beer brewing) also works.


To make a bottle of hydrogen rich water, you measure out around 500 mg of the magnesium shavings, and add to 3 grams of citric acid powder in a test tube. Shake the test tube to mix the powders, and then add two-thirds full with water, and then put in the test tube stopper (which must have a tiny pin hole in it to let the H2 gas out). As soon as you put the water in the test tube, the magnesium and citric acid will start reacting.

Then drop the test tube into a 1 liter plastic soda bottle (like a Coca-Cola bottle) which is filled to the very top with water, and close the bottle tight. In about 5 minutes the reaction will be complete. Then you must shake the bottle vigorously for 30 seconds, to get some of the H2 gas which collects at the top of the bottle to dissolve into the water (this is an important step).

Then it is ready for drinking.



Notes

• For the test tube, I use plastic test tubes, which you can buy cheaply on Amazon or eBay. You just have to find a test tube with is narrow enough to fit through a soda bottle top (soda bottle top inside width is 21.5 mm).

• If you do not shake the soda bottle vigorously for 30 seconds when the test tube reaction is complete, you only get 1 ppm of H2 in your water. But after shaking you will get 5 ppm, because the shaking helps dissolve the H2 gas. I was able to measure the ppm using the method detailed in this post, and I was able to confirm that I get around 5 ppm.

• Using 500 mg of magnesium with 3 grams of citric acid creates around 6 or 7 atmospheres (88 psi) pressure inside the soda bottle. If you use higher quantities you get increased pressure and a higher ppm. But these plastic soda bottles will burst at around 12 atmospheres, so you do not want to have too much pressure. But even if these plastic soda bottles do explode, they just rip, and it's generally not that dangerous (although water will go everywhere).

Obviously because of this pressure, you must never use a glass bottle, which may explode and shatter glass everywhere. And you should not use plastic bottles which are not designed for pressure, as these will not hold the pressure. Only soda bottles designed for fizzy drinks (PET bottles, as they are called) are able to withstand pressure.

• If you want to measure the ppm concentration of the hydrogen-rich water you are making, see the method of measuring ppm concentration in this post.

How do you get one that isn't contaminated with arsenic as so much magnesium is? And why magnesium at all? Can one use something else?

You do not consume any of the magnesium and citric acid reactants inside the test tube, so no need to worry about any possible contaminants in the magnesium. The test tube remains sealed off from the drinking water in your plastic soda bottle, with only a tiny pin hole in the test tube stopper which lets out the H2 gas from the test tube and into the bottle.

You can sometimes find 99.99% pure magnesium for sale, so if you buy this highly pure version, there will be very little contaminants in it.

Magnesium and citric acid are used just because their reaction creates H2 gas, and these ingredients are cheap and easy to obtain. And they are also safe to handle and non-toxic: even if you were to consume the magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide that the test tube reaction creates, it would be safe, as these are both forms of magnesium sold as supplements.

You can also make H2 gas from the reaction between zinc and hydrochloric acid, but hydrochloric acid you have to be more careful when handling. So I think the magnesium + citric acid reaction is the best.

The commercial hydrogen rich water tablets you can buy are also based on reacting magnesium with an acid like citric acid.

 

[Learner1]

Thanks for explaining. I'm still concerned about contaminants. Arsenic is a pretty common magnesium contaminant, it's pretty reactive, and it can stop ATP profuction. think I'll look into H2Infuz and some other tablets and see what lab analysis they can provide.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I never understood why I could drink and drink...........but still never feel hydrated. What's that all about I wonder?

It's possible that the water you drank wasn;t being efficiently up-taken by the body's many systems that rely on it. Enough got thru to keep you alive, obviously, but not enough to fully hydrate you ....

How's your salt and potassium intake? That could be a factor, too .... esp the salt ....

Thank you so much @Tammy for your thoughtful follow-up info re MegaHydrate, which will be very helpful in getting my friend to suck up more water, which could mean the difference between a lifetime of prescription drugs, or possibly, no lifetime at all. Much appreciated ....