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Hydrogen Rich Water for ME/CFS - Friedberg Pilot Study

Hip

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I'm still concerned about contaminants.
As I mentioned, the magnesium and citric acid remain inside the test tube, so you are not exposed to them. They do not get into the water that you drink.

But just to be doubly sure, you can order high purity 99.99% pure magnesium, in which levels of other metals are very low.
 
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I have been drinking hydrogenated water made with H2CAP-generator.

At first it was very beneficial, 0.5 litres in the morning on an empty stomach gave me a boost of energy for whole day, my fatigue and brainfog lessened, removed my headache (stuffed head feeling) and I could breath better. The effects lessened so I doubled the dose and again I was like a different person.

Unfortunately again, the effects lessened. I still feel some minor noticeable benefits but nothing like in the beginning. I'm still using it, hoping to get long term benefits like free radical scavenging. I'll see if that happens and how long does it take.
 
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Unfortunately again, the effects lessened. I still feel some minor noticeable benefits but nothing like in the beginning. I'm still using it, hoping to get long term benefits like free radical scavenging. I'll see if that happens and how long does it take.
I think that's a disappointment we've all been thru with one supp or another. It's always so disheartening to think you've found your Personal ME Holy Grail, only to have it disappear in great gusts of smoke and mist, chuckling as it goes .....


But be re-heartened by the fact that even if it isn't boosting you like it used to, it's an effective free-radical scavenger as you already observed, and also perhaps a hint, or at least a connecting dot, to unravel the mystery of your own personal ME ....

Onward and upward :rocket::rocket:!!!
 
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How did you find and decide on this hydrogen water maker? Also, how do you that this device really makes hydrogen? So many of the hydrogen water generators look like scams with huge prices.
I found Youtube videos made by person from here who has been in health business for over 20 years. She used it herself and tested it with H2Blue Hydrogen Test Reagant and noticed that it produces around 1 - 1.5 ppm hydrogen in 0.5 litres of water when you use the machine for 3.5 minutes. It came with a sample of H2Blue and I tested it myself also and confirmed her findings.
 
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I bought Dr. Mercola's H2 Hydrogen tablets which claim to provide 8ppm of hydrogen in 0.5 liters of water.

This morning I drank 2 times 0.5 liters of water from bottles which both had 1 H2 tablet in them dissolved. There was a slight hissing sound when I opened the bottle cap. I didn't see any nano bubbles forming when the tablets were dissolving and I'm very sceptical about the claimed 8ppm hydrogen content. Still it seems it was more effective than hydrogen water made with H2CAP. Unfortunately I don't have any H2Blue left anymore so I can't measure the real ppm content of this Mercola product.
 
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Learner1

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I bought Dr. Mercola's H2 Hydrogen tablets which claim to provide 8ppm of hydrogen in 0.5 liters of water.

This morning I drank 2 times 0.5 liters of water from bottles which both had 1 H2 tablet in them dissolved. There was a slight hissing sound when I opened the bottle cap. I didn't see any nano bubbles forming when the tablets were dissolving and I'm very sceptical about the claimed 8ppm hydrogen content. Still it seems it was more effective than hydrogen water made with H2CAP. Unfortunately I don't have any H2Blue left anymore so I can't measure the real ppm content of this Mercola product.
That product contains corn which I'm allergic to. So does H2 Infuz. And Vital Reaction.

Does anyone know of a corn free product exists? (I'm not taking about kernels of corn but dextrose, maltodextrin, etc. everyone of which causes hives.)

Or a safe, arsenic free elemetal magnesium yo use Hips method?

Or of an inexpensive machine?

Thanks!
 
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I tried Quicksilver Scientific's H2 Elite tablets which claim to provide 10ppm of hydrogen in ~0.5L of water. There were more nano bubbles forming in water when the tablet was dissolving than in Mercola's H2 but I didn't notice H2 Elite being any more effective. I think they both use the same technology to generate high levels of H2 molecules in water.

I also ordered Megahydrate to try out negative hydrogen ions.
 
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I thought I would add my input to the H2 thread, although I wrote about it yesterday in my introductory post.

I've been using Mercola's H2 tablets for 10 days now with great success. But let me clarify - I like to divide my whole health as a pie chart and slice it up pretty good. I don't even know how many slices are in the pie - LOL.

Drinking molecular hydrogen water has brought about great improvements - 50-80% in one or two slices and maybe 5% over all.

I wrote more about it at 'death my a thousand cuts'. The thing I think it has helped greatly and quickly is that my vascular and connective tissue has undergone great harm recently which has left me with greater cognitive difficulties, a searing burning type headache, vision issues, varicose veins, edema, and extremely cold hands and feet. I will credit steroids with some of the improvement, but I also know my body well enough to distinguish the difference.

As @lyran stated so many results are difficult to maintain. I think H2 may bring immediate relief simply by saturating our bodies with much needed hydrogen, but it certainly isn't getting to the root of anything. Whatever is destroying us is still there, and it quickly adapts. In the past I credit iodine and MSM (sulphur) as foundation for my cellular health - pillars. Now I am adding in hydrogen. I still think it's important to kill bugs, detox and make up nutrient deficits. Deal with DNA issues if you can.

I was reading that H2 can be dose dependent, but also is best pulsed. They suggest a few days off every 3-6 months. Maybe more often for those of us. IDK

From this link: https://drinkhrw.com/blogs/news/what-is-the-ideal-dose-of-hydrogen-water

Despite this complexity, there are certain things we do know. We know that continuous dosing is not effective, unlike intermittent dosing¹. In addition to the published work, I have discussed this with Tyler W. LaBaron at the 44 minute mark and on here. This is likely due to the need to raise cellular H₂ concentration and likely build up an immediate tolerance with no benefit. Many protocols given by companies with a lack of any fundamental knowledge of how hydrogen gas works insist on sipping hydrogen water throughout the day. This is, in all likelihood, completely ineffective. Exacerbating the issue is that many of the companies promoting this also push technologies that produce below, or hovering around, the minimum therapeutic concentration determined by the International Hydrogen Standards Association.

Further, it is trending in the literature that for many outcomes, particularly metabolic issues as well as exercise performance and recovery, higher doses for a longer use is superior. In fact, as discussed with Tyler W. LeBaron in our second talk at around the 1:21 to 1:29 mark here, in some cell lines there is a dose dependent response up to 800 μM of H₂, which based on Tyler's remark that 20μM would be the equivalent of consuming 1.6 mg of H₂, or 13 hydrogen tablets across 6.5 L in one go, assuming that no H₂ is exhaled, which isn't realistic. This is more or less impossible. For other technologies that may get 1mg/L, this would be drinking 64 : of water in one go. 1 mg/L is a high dosage for most machines and ready to drink products, many of which are below 0.5mg/L or even 0.1 mg/L. This is why concentration is so important, as I detailed in a two-part series (part 1 here and part 2 here)

For many molecules, higher dosages come with safety concerns. For H₂ gas, and the very small concentration of it that is delivered through water, safety concerns are almost non-existent. We naturally produce liters of H₂ gas aday through bacteria breaking down carbohydrates, and my friend Professor Ostojic, who I recorded a conversation with here, has published hypotheses papers regarding endogenous H₂ production in the development of Parkinson's disease². Additionally, we know that hydrogen gas is incredibly safe, as it is used in doses 1000x and higher in mixed gas for deep sea diving. In published clinical research, only 3 studies with a totalof 63 subjects have noted potential adverse events (not necessarily related to hydrogen gas), while 72 trials with 1613 participants have noted no adverse events. In the three trials with reported adverse events, one should be viewed as positive (insulin needed to be lowered in a diabetic patient), another involved patients recovering from a traumatic stroke and bed ridden with no evidence hydrogen was causing the issue, and the final cluster of reported adverse events was a study that may habve been providing high doses of magnesium, in the form of magnesium hydroxide, with adverse events in line with magnesium overconsumption.

Since more is probably better, and more isn't harmful, should we always opt to take in the highest dose possible? Not necessarily. As I've detailed throughout the past, and as is discussed in published literature, molecular hydrogen is potentially working as a form of hormesis³, perhaps as a form of mitophormesis⁴ (hormesis for our mitochondria). Hormesis is a beneficial stress that creates a favourable physiological outcome, think exercise, cold exposure, fasting or even alcohol. It is fairly clear that the same exercise day in and day out stops being as beneficial as it stops becoming a stress. This is often why starting a new workout program leads to dramatic improvements in body composition. It typically isn't that the new exercise was superior to the previous strategy employed, but more that it is new. Likewise, I have noted a sharp decline in the benefits of fasting, and after eight months I began experimenting with new fasting protocols.
continued here: https://drinkhrw.com/blogs/news/what-is-the-ideal-dose-of-hydrogen-water
 
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@lyran Did you happen to purchase that generator? If so do you like it and have you tested it? I was going to purchase a similar one from lifegivingstore.com because I trust them. It's is a bit cheaper and comes with a canula, but they make no claims regarding 4ppm by using a sealed bottle. I have written them and asked. The canula would be nice, but at 5ml/? it's probably not enough to make any difference.

One thing I find curious is that in the video they are using distilled water. I swear I read that distilled water should not be used as the water needs some mineral content to properly hydrogenate. Of course, now I can't find the link, but it was probably at drinkhrw.com . Plus, when driking a quart or more of water a day/I'd prefer it not be RO or distilled. I wonder what their tests results would be with purified or spring water? We happen to use a Berkey Filter at our home.

Anyone tried using H2 water in a netti-pot?
 
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@lyran Did you happen to purchase that generator? If so do you like it and have you tested it? I was going to purchase a similar one from healthnatura because I trust them. Healthnatura's is a bit cheaper and comes with a canula, but they make no claims regarding 4ppm by using a sealed bottle. I have written them and asked. The canula would be nice, but at 5ml/? it's probably not enough to make any difference.

One thing I find curious is that in the video they are using distilled water. I swear I read that distilled water should not be used as the water needs some mineral content to properly hydrogenate. Of course, now I can't find the link, but it was probably at drinkhrw.com . Plus, when driking a quart or more of water a day/I'd prefer it not be RO or distilled. I wonder what their tests results would be with purified or spring water? We happen to use a Berkey Filter at our home.
No, I already have H2CAP-generator, which unfortunately doesn't produce as high concentration hydrogen water as H2Nano does. In the H2Nano video, delvis11 tells that you can produce higher concentration hydrogen water using Evian bottle and I noticed this also works for H2CAP. The thing is, Evian bottle flexes, unlike the bottle that came with H2CAP which is made of harder plastic.

I also think it is not a good idea to drink distilled water, at least not lots of it as it doesn't contain the minerals body needs.
 
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No, I already have H2CAP-generator, which unfortunately doesn't produce as high concentration hydrogen water as H2Nano does. In the H2Nano video, delvis11 tells that you can produce higher concentration hydrogen water using Evian bottle and I noticed this also works for H2CAP. The thing is, Evian bottle flexes, unlike the bottle that came with H2CAP which is made of harder plastic.

I also think it is not a good idea to drink distilled water, at least not lots of it as it doesn't contain the minerals body needs.
I agree regarding distilled water and "somewhere" read that it doesn't produce as much H2. If someone is wanting to save money and generate their own, but we can only generate 2-4 ppm - thus needing to drink a liter or more per day - I sure wouldn't want that to be distilled or RO. I find it rather ridiculous that the folks with the H2Nano are even using distilled. Plus it's another expense and/or hassle.

I've written the folks who make the H2Nano asking if they get the same results with filtered or spring water, but haven't heard back . I've also written Life Giving Store and asked them about their model (HW1). They were fascinated with the video on the H2Nano and said they will be testing their model as soon as they get a plastic bottle. Your note regarding flexible vs hard plastic is important.

If the HW1 will produce >2ppm in a plastic bottle, it's not only a better price, but for $12 you get a nasal canula. It's not much for inhalation, but it's something.
 
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can anyone with a good bullshit detector tell me if this is worth trying?
Bread - I have a great bullshit detector. I've spent more $$ than my house over decades trying to get well. As I said in lengthy post above - it may be helpful for one slice of the total pie of our health. And it may, like iodine and MSM, be foundational for cellular health. BUT that may just be my individual deficiencies. (Although, IIRC, hydrogen has the most studies of any other molecule - so there is something intriguing about it.)

That being said, I am dealing with horrible vascular issues so it makes sense that I am getting help with H2. If you don't have vascular issues, you may not see any improvement. The $19 bottle of 30 tablets from Mercola on Amazon is but a pittance compared to other money I've spent throwing down the Well-of-Hope-That-it-Works.

Just this year alone, again throwing money at this horrible "syndrome", out of shear desperation, I've dumped over $4-5k on sups, diagnostic testing, and treatments (that doesn't include probably double that $ in things that insurance has covered). NOTHING has had the effect that $19 of H2 has had. - Again, my main problem right now is vascular (and probably connective tissue).

I'm dosing 3-4 tablets a day and will start taking every other Saturday off - maybe every Saturday.
 
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I have been using Megahydrate now for couple of days. It feels like hydrogen water but gives me some detox symptoms like slight headache. Very powerful stuff. It is very expensive though and even more expensive here in Europe, and difficult to get.

Edit: I took Megahydrate for 4 days and during that time I was more fatigued than usually. I also had headaches and muscle twitching. Today I didn't take it and that extra fatigue lifted. I think these were detoxification symptoms. I have never experienced any detox symptoms from hydrogen water so Megahydrate surely is something different.

I'm dosing 3-4 tablets a day and will start taking every other Saturday off - maybe every Saturday.
Do you take all the tablets in the morning or throughout the day?
 
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I’m really interested in trying this. I’ve read lots of studies proving its validity. I may buy some soon. If I do I’ll keep you guys updated on how I feel.
 

hmnr asg

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Hi
I recently tried the "Quicksilver Scientific H2 Elite Tablets" and have been getting a lot of benefit. I havnt gotten so much benefit out of anything in a long time.

I am going to try to make my own as @Hip suggested.
By the way, could @Hip comment on this method of making hydrogen water?
This person uses a beer making bottle along with multiple magnesium rods and NO test tube.

Thank you so much and thanks as always to @Hip for always coming up with innovating ways of doing things.

H
 

Hip

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By the way, could @Hip comment on this method of making hydrogen water?
Yes, I saw that fascinating video a few years ago, and watching it got me interested in making my own hydrogen-rich water, and got me started in my experiments to develop a better method. So I started out with the method described in this video, and then tried to improve upon it. My improved method is detailed in this earlier post.

The difference between his method in the video, and my improved method, is that I use a test tube placed within the bottle, which stops the magnesium salts entering the bottle. If the magnesium enters the bottle, and thus enters the hydrogen-rich water that you drink, it can cause diarrhea if you have high doses of magnesium.

The other difference is that I use plastic bottles, rather than glass bottles. Placing glass bottles under pressure can be dangerous if the bottle explodes. I would steer clear of glass beer bottles: they can withstand about 3 atm of pressure, but I use pressures up to 6 or 7 atm to make my hydrogen-rich water. A plastic PET bottle designed to hold fizzy drinks can go up to 12 atm before bursting.

My improved method was actually inspired by this study, which used the test tube within a bottle system.
 
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hmnr asg

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thank you @Hip for your response.
I decided to go the rod method because I know i will end up swallowing those magnesium shavings (i am VERY clumsy and uncoordinated). Also I have no problem waiting for the bottle to get ready.

Also i ended up getting these soda stream plastic bottles: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AHEAE3G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Two questions:
- any suggestions how to make that hole in the cork? would a regular needle be ok?
- given I am using rod, how often would i have to change these rods?

I am going with these rods:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07KSBQ...d=1AFRQMP00W7H0&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im

Thank you again!!
Hows your hydrogen water experiment going? are you still getting benefits?
H