High-Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

[Hip]

After taking Selenium (L- selenomethionine, yeast free) 25mcg I get pain in my muscles, brainfog and depression feelings.

It seems strange that you should get these symptoms on such a low dose. The average selenium intake from foods is just over 100 mcg daily, 1 so it's hard to understand why adding an additional 25 mcg to the 100 mcg you are likely getting daily would cause such problems.

Are you sure that it is yeast-free, because the yeast used to make selenium, Saccharomyces cerevisiae (Baker's yeast, or Brewer's yeast), has known immune-boosting effects, which could cause the symptoms you experienced.

When I tried a pure Saccharomyces cerevisiae supplement called EpiCor, I had greatly increased depression after just one dose.

 

[Hip]

After taking Selenium (L- selenomethionine, yeast free) 25mcg I get pain in my muscles, brainfog and depression feelings.

One possibility that just occurred to me: perhaps this particular selenomethionine form of selenium is causing you troubles.

You might consider trying other forms of selenium, such as selenate, selenite or methylselenocysteine; perhaps these will not cause the side effects. Though selenate and selenite only have about 50% bioavailability, whereas selenomethionine and methylselenocysteine have near 100% bioavailability (the reason I used selenomethionine is because of its high bioavailability; I now use methylselenocysteine as it is cheaper).

This study found that selenomethionine, but not other forms of selenium, can induce HERV (endogenous retrovirus) expression. Not saying that is necessarily the cause of your side effects, but it shows that different forms of selenium can have different effects.

 

[pattismith]

This study found that selenomethionine, but not other forms of selenium, can induce HERV (endogenous retrovirus) expression. Not saying that is necessarily the cause of your side effects, but it shows that different forms of selenium can have different effects.

It is also important to be sure your vitamine B6 load is good when taking selenomethionine, as this vitamine is cofactor for the enzyme that breaks it and allows it to be used .

 

[jason30]

It seems strange that you should get these symptoms on such a low dose. The average selenium intake from foods is just over 100 mcg daily, 1 so it's hard to understand why adding an additional 25 mcg to the 100 mcg you are likely getting daily would cause such problems.

Are you sure that it is yeast-free, because the yeast used to make selenium, Saccharomyces cerevisiae (Baker's yeast, or Brewer's yeast), has known immune-boosting effects, which could cause the symptoms you experienced.

When I tried a pure Saccharomyces cerevisiae supplement called EpiCor, I had greatly increased depression after just one dose.

Yes, I found it frustrated because I know I get some benefit from it.

It says that it's yeast free so I need to trust on that. I took 1/8 from this one; https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Nature-s-Way-Selenium-200-mcg-100-Capsules/4554

 

[jason30]

One possibility that just occurred to me: perhaps this particular selenomethionine form of selenium is causing you troubles.

You might consider trying other forms of selenium, such as selenate, selenite or methylselenocysteine; perhaps these will not cause the side effects. Though selenate and selenite only have about 50% bioavailability, whereas selenomethionine and methylselenocysteine have near 100% bioavailability (the reason I used selenomethionine is because of its high bioavailability; I now use methylselenocysteine as it is cheaper).

This study found that selenomethionine, but not other forms of selenium, can induce HERV (endogenous retrovirus) expression. Not saying that is necessarily the cause of your side effects, but it shows that different forms of selenium can have different effects.

Thanks for thinking along.

That's a really interesting study, maybe it could induce HERV by me. I keep this in mind.

Other forms
I also tried Selenium (as Sodium Selenite), this one; https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Nutricology-Selenium-Solution-8-fl-oz-236-ml/17257 or https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Trace-Minerals-Research-Ionic-Selenium-300-mcg-2-fl-oz-59-ml/23263)

I have never tried the selenate version (like this one; https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Eidon-Miner...-Selenium-Liquid-Concentrate-2-oz-60-ml/26013 ).
I could try that one, but I do expect the same 'detox' reaction.

Detox
I strongly believe it have something to do with detox. I feel like my detox ability is starting or it's detoxing something in my body which is there for a long time already.

Andy Cutler says that selenium lets your body make more of some enzymes. One of them is glutathione peroxidase and also the enzyme which converts the thyroid hormone T4 to the more active form T3.
I am very low in glutathione, and when I up glutathione then this can detox something in my body?

Other things which I have found in my short research:

1. Results show that vitamin B12 deficiency significantly decreases the ability of rats to methylate selenium. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8430425 (I am low in b12)
2. According to the Thyroid Madness Group those with MTHFR commonly trap selenium and so can't supplement it. They say that the MTHFR can cause high levels of selenium. I have the MTHFR mutation (2 times +/-)
3. This source states: (source: https://www.spectracell.com/media/uploaded/s/0e2041659_supplement-selenium.pdf)
4. Heavy metal toxicity symptoms may be alleviated by selenium, acting as an antagonist.
5. In the presence of iodine deficiency goiter, selenium supplementation has been reported to exacerbate low thyroid function.
6. This research states that Selenium Increases Mercury Excretion; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23033886/

 

[jason30]

It is also important to be sure your vitamine B6 load is good when taking selenomethionine, as this vitamine is cofactor for the enzyme that breaks it and allows it to be used .

That's interesting Patti.
I am low in b6, worth a new try with b6. Thanks!

 

[pattismith]

That's interesting Patti.
I am low in b6, worth a new try with b6. Thanks!

Zinc is also important to detoxify lead, so supplementing with zinc is important.

However, you have to pay attention not to take too much iodine and zinc, because more is not always better especially for those two.

 

[Hip]

I also tried Selenium (as Sodium Selenite)

If you've tried selenite and also get the same side effects, I think we can rule out any specific problems with the selenomethionine form.

Results show that vitamin B12 deficiency significantly decreases the ability of rats to methylate selenium.

Have you tried taking B12 with your selenium, to see if that helps?

Incidentally I've recently been getting good results with the Australian B12 oils (the methylcobalamin + adenosylcobalamin oil), which employ a special microemulsion penetration enhancer technology to get high doses of B12 across the skin (about 80% of the B12 is absorbed). You actually get more B12 into your body with these oils than you do with a typical B12 injection. I am finding much better results, particularly with reducing brain fog, using these B12 oils, in comparison to the sublingual B12 methylcobalamin that I usually use.

 

[jason30]

Have you tried taking B12 with your selenium, to see if that helps?

Incidentally I've recently been getting good results with the Australian B12 oils (the methylcobalamin + adenosylcobalamin oil), which employ a special microemulsion penetration enhancer technology to get high doses of B12 across the skin (about 80% of the B12 is absorbed). You actually get more B12 into your body with these oils than you do with a typical B12 injection. I am finding much better results, particularly with reducing brain fog, using these B12 oils, in comparison to the sublingual B12 methylcobalamin that I usually use.

Great to hear that you have better results with those oils.

I happen to be busy currently with finding a good method to raise my vit.b12 and folate because my serum b12 suddenly drops a lot and my MMA is raising a lot. Soon I check the active b12, but it's almost certain that I have some deficiency.
These oils sounds like a great solution, I am definately gonna try it.

How much oil do you put on your skin? Is there a certain place you put it on and how many times do you put the oil on your skin?

Thanks a lot for thinking along Hip!

 

[jason30]

Zinc is also important to detoxify lead, so supplementing with zinc is important.

However, you have to pay attention not to take too much iodine and zinc, because more is not always better especially for those two.

Yes indeed, especially iodine.
I really find the zinc-copper connection and copper toxicity difficult to address. Currently I just leave those as it is, focusing currently on detoxing, addressing heavy metals and methylation.

 

[Hip]

How much oil do you put on your skin? Is there a certain place you put it on and how many times do you put the oil on your skin?

The pump bottle measures out your dose, which is 0.25 ml, and that dose contains 2500 mcg of B12 (with 60 such doses per bottle). You rub this oil onto your skin once daily, or once every few days if you like.

I use my thigh area to rub in the oil (because methylcobalamin is sensitive to breakdown from light, but once I pull my trousers up, it's protected from light). It's very easy and convenient. See this post about these oils.

 

[Archie]

Yeeh selenium is good stuff , anyone else than me tryed taking 10mg ? It was a special product, i even give it my mother also to use it and she had no issues with high doses either . Name is Selenium Tung Oil :

http://www.whnstore.com/Revici-Selenated-Tung-Oil-p/sup-tsel-1oz.htm?click=159

1 drop is 1 mg selenium , i taked at least 10 drop at once, maybe even more . I must admit, that at first i thought i must be totally grazy for taking 10 mg . Now i take SelenoPrecise 400-500 day , but some days dont take at all . With selenium ,specially with higher dosages it would be good idea to take lots of alpha lipoic acid every 3-4 hours for " just in case " even thought selenium itself binds to heavy metals , i remember seeing some warning that it could also mobilize mercury ( i dont know is it true ) , so a lot of ALA maybe also .

 

[Archie]

I think it was this Dr.Emanuel Revici who invent that selenium tung oil :

http://whnlive.com/support/what-makes-your-selenium-supplement-so-different-from-others/

 

[Sarah94]

@Hip were you low in Selenium before this? Is it worth trying Selenium even if my levels of it are normal?

 

[Hip]

@Hip were you low in Selenium before this? Is it worth trying Selenium even if my levels of it are normal?

I don't know, was not tested. But I never saw these benefits when taking modest doses of selenium (eg 50 mcg daily), only on high doses of 400 mcg daily. Which suggests the benefits I obtain are nothing to do with fixing a selenium deficiency, but are due to the particular metabolic effects of high dose levels.

 

[Sidny]

In terms of selenium toxicity, I have an acquaintance who was able to put his incurable form of cancer into remission by taking very high doses of sodium selenite, a form of selenium that has potent anticancer effects. This acquaintance took a dose of 5,000 mcg of selenium as sodium selenite each day for two years, with no sign of any selenium toxicity, apart from some nausea when he first started on this dose. This individual told me of many other cancer patients who treat incurable or chemotherapy-resistant cancers using very high dose sodium selenite, and none have any side effects other than some nausea.

Note that the absorption of sodium selenite in the gut is only around 50%, so a 5,000 mcg dose of selenium as sodium selenite would be equivalent to 2,500 mcg of selenomethionine, as the latter has 100% absorption.

By the way, if anyone wants more information about this intriguing sodium selenite protocol for cancer, I posted some details here.

This is fascinating stuff. Your reasearch and sharing of these results is much appreciated. It makes me wonder how much other potential natural cancer treatments such as apricot kernels (B17) actually have merits (even though mainstream medicine and big pharma says they don’t)

 

[Hip]

It makes me wonder how much other potential natural cancer treatments such as apricot kernels (B17) actually have merits (even though mainstream medicine and big pharma says they don’t)

I don't know a great deal about it, but this systematic review found no solid evidence for the efficacy of B17 (laetrile) against cancer, whereas this review of selenium compounds such as sodium selenite concludes:

overwhelming evidence has demonstrated that Se and many Se compounds, under certain circumstances, are potent anticancer agents.

So it looks like certain selenium compounds do have potent cancer killing effects in certain types of cancers.

 

[JinZ]

One possibility that just occurred to me: perhaps this particular selenomethionine form of selenium is causing you troubles.

You might consider trying other forms of selenium, such as selenate, selenite or methylselenocysteine; perhaps these will not cause the side effects. Though selenate and selenite only have about 50% bioavailability, whereas selenomethionine and methylselenocysteine have near 100% bioavailability (the reason I used selenomethionine is because of its high bioavailability; I now use methylselenocysteine as it is cheaper).

This study found that selenomethionine, but not other forms of selenium, can induce HERV (endogenous retrovirus) expression. Not saying that is necessarily the cause of your side effects, but it shows that different forms of selenium can have different effects.

Where do you get your selenium from - the cheaper version?

 

[Hip]

Where do you get your selenium from - the cheaper version?

I buy it here.

 

[renski]

traacs selenium glycinate is another option, found in good quality multi minerals or on its own from swanson vitamins. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-albion-complexed-selenium-200-mcg-180-caps