High-Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

Does selenium 400 mcg daily help your CFS? Have an active enterovirus infection, tested at ARUP Lab?

  • Selenium HELPED. My ARUP Lab tests showed I HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • Selenium HELPED. My ARUP Lab tests showed I DO NOT HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Selenium DID NOT HELP. My ARUP Lab tests showed I HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Selenium DID NOT HELP. My ARUP Lab tests showed I DO NOT HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Selenium MADE ME FEEL WORSE (or made me feel too mentally "wired" and over-stimulated)

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • Selenium HELPED. I have not been tested for enterovirus at ARUP Lab

    Votes: 27 45.0%
  • Selenium DID NOT HELP. I have not been tested for enterovirus at ARUP Lab

    Votes: 17 28.3%

  • Total voters
    60
Messages
10
I have been working hard to optimize my mineral intake recently, so I found this thread helpful.

I've personally found 350mcg selenomethionine daily to be an optimum dose for me. I eat quite a few high selenium foods (mostly meat/fish/asparagus/eggs), so my total daily intake I estimate to be somewhere around 450mcg.

I've never experienced any of the over-stimulation or other negative affects that some others have experienced with selenium. But mercury toxicity (if that is the cause of the symptoms) is not something I've ever had to deal with, thankfully.

I feel that mineral balance may be one of the keys to dealing with chronic health issues. The more minerals I optimize, the better I am feeling in general.

Just as a reference, here is my current mineral regimen. (My health issues include chronic candida, chronic lyme and CFS). Not implying it's perfect or that anyone should follow this, just posting as a curiosity. Also, Celtic Sea Salt is very helpful with lyme for me, so I will be taking it to 10-12 grams slowly over the next year.

2 grams elemental sodium (from 6 grams Celtic Sea Salt)
2 grams elemental potassium (from Citrate)
1200 mg Calcium (Citrate / MCHA)
600-800 mg Magnesium (Citrate / Malate)
50 mg zinc (Picolinate)
20 mg Silicon (Biosil)
6 mg manganese (glycinate)
4 mg boron (Glycinate) [Working this slowly up to 10-15mg, seems extremely effective for candida so far; HERX]
3 mg copper (Glycinate) [May bump to 4mg slowly to maintain a more ideal 10:1 Zn:Cu ratio]
1 mg molybdenum (Glycinate) [may back this off to 500 mcg soon, need to research more]
600 mcg Chromium (Ultrachrome-500 and 100mcg from TRAACS glycinate)
400 mcg lithium (Orotate)
350 mcg Selenium (Selenomethionine)
350 mcg Iodine (Potassium Iodide)

I've been following https://cfsremission.com/ for awhile now. His recent posts have been pointing out some interesting research correlations between nutrient intake and a shift in the gut microbiome in a direction that appears favorable for CFS/dysbiosis sufferers. Worth a read if you haven't been there (not affiliated).
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,137
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Deltrus

Senior Member
Messages
271
I previously said selenium increased my fatigue, but later I tried it for around a month along with 30 mg zinc and 2 mg copper, and my energy levels improved quite a bit. Selenium, zinc, copper, noopept, uridine, alpha gcp all helped me a ton but took 1-4 weeks to fully come into affect. Before that they gave brain fog.
 
Messages
61
@Gingergrrl
No, I consistently find significant benefits from taking 400 mcg of yeast free selenomethionine each day on an empty stomach, and have taken this for several years now.

However, the majority of people on this thread who tried selenium found it mentally over-stimulating for reasons which I have not been able to work out, and also did not report the benefits I observed of reduced fatigue and reduced brain fog.

Interestingly, though, the people on this thread who did benefit from selenium as I did are those who seem to have enterovirus-associated ME/CFS, which makes sense, as the studies I cited at the beginning of this thread found selenium has antiviral benefits for enterovirus infection.

Hi Hip,

You always ask good questions. Selenium, when absorbed from an organic source, stimulates the brain because its role is essential in the thinking and idea formation of the Neurons or Brain Cells which interconnect in the brain. The human brain is actually an Electronic-Organic computer. Selenium is needed in transmitting electrical impulses across the contact point between adjacent cells, At this interface, there is no exact conducting connection........its a semi-conductor. It has other brain function roles also. One of the critical metals required is Selenium.
https://atlasofscience.org/importance-of-selenium-for-brain-function/
https://atlasofscience.org/importance-of-selenium-for-brain-function/


We need some others such as Copper, Iodine, Iron, Zinc....

Abdulrahman
 
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pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,988
High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

High dose selenium significantly improves my fatigue levels, and noticeably reduces my brain fog. I have consistently found selenium to be the best single supplement or drug I have tried for ME/CFS.

I found that it requires a high(ish) dose of 400 mcg of selenium each day before these benefits manifest. The best form of selenium to take is yeast-free selenomethionine, as selenomethionine the best absorbed form of selenium. Selenium must be taken on an empty stomach, to ensure it is properly assimilated.

I found that the improvements in fatigue and brain fog that selenium provides take a while to appear: it takes around 10 days of daily selenium supplementation before these improvements manifest. But these improvements begin to be noticeable by the 10 day stage. This amelioration in fatigue and brain fog is also maintained permanently, provided I continue to supplement with 400 mcg of selenium each day.

Two other people who followed the same selenium protocol as me also said that they found noticeable improvements by 10 days.

I'm so glad to read that you improved!

I've just read this study that says "Ours is the first study to directly examine the link between the GPX1 Pro198Leu polymorphism and depressive risk as well as its impact on the selenium-depression link. Our findings point to gene-environment interaction, which is supported by the gene-dose impact. Specifically, the C allele of the GPX1 polymorphism was associated with significantly increased risk of depression in a dose-dependent manner (i.e. CC > CT > TT). Additionally, the impact of environmental selenium concentrations on depression scores was stronger for the CC than CT group."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3566946/

I wonder if our community has increased carryage of this variant, anyone tested his rs1050450 (GPX1 ) gene?
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,493
Location
Austria
50 mg zinc (Picolinate)
3 mg copper (Glycinate) [May bump to 4mg slowly to maintain a more ideal 10:1 Zn:Cu ratio]

So you try to shoot for a 10:1 ratio in intake? I get 13 mg of zinc from diet, and supplemented 44 mg per day. 4.2 mg of copper from diet, and 1.1 mg supplemented. Which adds up to 56mg : 5.3 mg, almost perfect.

However, my Cu:Zn serum ratio has been 1.8 (0.7-1 normal range), and whole blood Cu:Zn whole blood ratio 0.18 (0.135 - 0.165 normal). So despite even calculating in dietary intake, for which copper is higher, and seemingly an ideal intake, my serum and blood values, repeatedly tested, show I'm still much too high in copper.

For example, once I got headache by supplementing above 60 mg/d of zinc in my attempt to get my, at the lowest end of normal serum level, up. Found only 2 mg of copper would cease the headache. But short after my serum copper rose to its all-time highest of 192 µg/dl (65 - 165 normal), while driving serum zinc below normal.

I would test before raising or even continuing at your dose of copper. But maybe you're fine as it is, we all have different bio-chemical individuality.
 

lyran

Senior Member
Messages
199
I'm wondering why Selenium does trigger me terrible fatigue and headache after 4-5 days on consuming 200 mcg of L-Selenomethionine. At first it helps me with fatigue and also with muscle pain. I only get maximum of 50 mcg of Selenium from my diet so it shouldn't be overdose symptoms?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,137
I'm wondering why Selenium does trigger me terrible fatigue and headache after 4-5 days on consuming 200 mcg of L-Selenomethionine. At first it helps me with fatigue and also with muscle pain. I only get maximum of 50 mcg of Selenium from my diet so it shouldn't be overdose symptoms?

So you find selenium helpful initially, but then adverse effects appear after around 5 days.

Perhaps you could consider a lower dose, eg 25 to 50 mcg daily, and see if that still provides the benefits without the side effects.
 

lyran

Senior Member
Messages
199
So you find selenium helpful initially, but then adverse effects appear after around 5 days.

Perhaps you could consider a lower dose, eg 25 to 50 mcg daily, and see if that still provides the benefits without the side effects.

Yes, that's right.

I could try that or maybe take it every other day. Thanks!

It may be that L-Selenomethionine acts as a stimulant for me as many supplements tend to do that.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,137
My guess at what might be happening with you is that after a few days supplementation, levels of selenium build up in your cells, and then once a certain level is reached, then side effects appear.
 

lyran

Senior Member
Messages
199
I started using 100 mcg of SelenoExcell (high selenium yeast). These are 200 mcg tablets so it's easy to adjust the dose with a tablet cutter. I'll see if 100 mcg is still too much. I will report back in a few weeks.

I think I don't have any yeast problems so this form of selenium should be fine to me, and the yeast is dead in the tablets.
 
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lyran

Senior Member
Messages
199
I think SelenoExcell didn't have any antiviral effects on me. The first few days of using it, it did help my fatigue a bit and also helped me breath better but when I continued using it, these effects worn out.

I tried 50 mcg and 100 mcg doses.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,204
High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

High dose selenium significantly improves my fatigue levels, and noticeably reduces my brain fog. I have consistently found selenium to be the best single supplement or drug I have tried for ME/CFS.

I found that it requires a high(ish) dose of 400 mcg of selenium each day before these benefits manifest. The best form of selenium to take is yeast-free selenomethionine, as selenomethionine the best absorbed form of selenium. Selenium must be taken on an empty stomach, to ensure it is properly assimilated.

I found that the improvements in fatigue and brain fog that selenium provides take a while to appear: it takes around 10 days of daily selenium supplementation before these improvements manifest. But these improvements begin to be noticeable by the 10 day stage. This amelioration in fatigue and brain fog is also maintained permanently, provided I continue to supplement with 400 mcg of selenium each day.

Two other people who followed the same selenium protocol as me also said that they found noticeable improvements by 10 days.


If I cease taking my daily dose of 400 mcg selenium, within about 3 or 4 days of stopping, my fatigue and brain fog will begin to get worse again. So if you want to maintain the increased energy and cognitive abilities it provides, one should take selenium on a daily basis.

I also found that if I reduce my dose to 200 mcg of selenium a day, the fatigue and fatigue and brain fog also creep back to some degree. Taking a 400 mcg daily dose of selenium seems to provide the best benefits.

The maximum daily dose of selenium is 600 mcg (ref: here), so you can even try taking higher daily doses of selenium; but I personally found that these higher doses created some irritability side effects, so I went back to 400 mcg. However, other people may be perfectly fine with these higher doses.



High Dose Selenium: Long Term Improvements in ME/CFS

This daily dose of 400 mcg of selenium also appeared create to some significant long term improvements in my ME/CFS. Two years ago, my ME/CFS was much worse than it is now: at that time, for one or two days each week, it was common for me become so tired I would sleep in bed for 18 hours of the day. Nowadays, however, I never experience these very tired days, and my overall energy levels and mental concentration levels are much improved compared to two years ago.

So I would say that before selenium, I was on the border of entering severe ME/CFS territory (in which people are mostly bedbound), but after some time on selenium, my ME/CFS improved to the point where it become moderate ME/CFS, even on border of becoming mild ME/CFS (on the ME/CFS scale of
mild, moderate and severe).

Thus anyone with ME/CFS looking for a sustainable gain in energy and improvement in brain fog might want to try taking 400 mcg of selenium (as yeast-free selenomethionine) on an empty stomach for 10 days or so, and see if you experience the same benefits as I did.



Notes on Selenium Suplementation

• Other forms of selenium supplement include sodium selenate, and sodium selenite, but the absorption of these two forms in the gut is only around 50%, whereas the absorption of selenomethionine in the gut is near 100%. If you take the less absorbable forms of selenium, you may have to increase your dose to compensate for the poorer assimilation.

• Selenomethionine comes in both a yeast-free form, and a yeast-derived form. I would avoid the yeast-derived form of selenomethionine, because I found this yeast form caused significant depression symptoms when I took it, whereas the yeast-free selenomethionine had no such side effects.

• Selenium must be taken on an empty stomach to ensure good absorption.

• Selenomethionine is also referred to as L-selenomethionine (these are the same thing).

• Selenium protects against cancer, so this is another benefit of taking this supplement on a daily basis. Though it may increase the risk of prostate cancer.1



High Dose Selenium: Possible Mechanisms of Action

Selenium has a number of effects in the body that may explain why it reduces fatigue and brain fog in ME/CFS. Some of these effects are as follows:

Selenium has significant antiviral effects, as selenium deficiency is known to cause increased viral pathogenicity, and is known to make coxsackievirus B and echovirus infection more severe (coxsackievirus B and echovirus are two enteroviruses strongly linked to ME/CFS). See these studies:

• Selenium and viral virulence (full paper here)
• Increased virulence of a human enterovirus (coxsackievirus B3) in selenium-deficient mice
• Increased virulence of coxsackievirus B3 in mice due to vitamin E or selenium deficiency
• Selenium deficiency contributes to the chronic myocarditis in coxsackievirus-infected mice

• Coxsackievirus B3-resistant mice become susceptible in Se/vitamin E deficiency
• Benign human enterovirus becomes virulent in selenium-deficient mice
• Selenium deficiency and viral infection
• Selenium and host defence towards viruses
• Selenium and vitamin E status: impact on viral pathogenicity


Coxsackievirus B is capable of making viral selenoproteins, and is thereby able to reduce the body's supply of selenium. Ref: here.


Selenium increases toxic metal excretion from the body. Supplementation with just 100 mcg of selenium (in the form of selenomethionine) daily for 4 months led to a 34% reduction in levels of mercury detected in body hair. Selenium may act as a competitive inhibitor of mercury and lead absorption. Selenium also mitigates the toxicity of mercury and cadmium by modulating their interaction with certain biomolecules. Source: Heavy Metal Detoxification


➤ Selenium is a co-factor for glutathione peroxidase, which is an antioxidant enzyme that, with the help of reduced glutathione, scavenges hydrogen peroxide. This helps prevent the generation of free radicals and reactive oxygen species (ROS) by hydrogen peroxide. Furthermore, this study suggests that a lack of glutathione peroxidase causes coxsackievirus B to undergo genetic changes in the body and become more virulent. Vitamin B6 may also be a co-factor for glutathione peroxidase. Ref: here. The herb Gynostemma pentaphyllum also raises glutathione peroxidase. Ref: here. Vitamin E increases glutathione peroxidase. Ref: here.


➤ Selenium deficiency increases susceptibility to glutamate-induced excitotoxicity. Ref: here.


➤ Selenium provides partial protection against quinolinic acid neurotoxicity. Ref: here. (A full list of medications that protect against quinolinic acid given in this post).


➤ Selenium enhances the activity of T-regulatory cells (T-regs), which might have an anti-autoimmune effect. Ref: here. Other supplements which boost T-regs listed here. TGF beta-1 destroys T-regs, according to Dr Shoemaker, but losartan can reduce its levels; see this post.


Thank you for this information on selenium. I just realized that selenium helps the dull, sick headache that I wake with almost every morning and came here to see if anyone had extended information about it. I have three types of selenium and have taken in off and on, but never really focused on taking it consistently and monitoring for adequate dosage to relieve fatigue.

This has given me some hope. I have had chronic fatigue for many years.
 
Messages
7
Sorry if not totally relevant but after reading this thread I doubled my selenomethionine dose (744mcg selenomethionine equiv 300mcg selenium). I only started taking selenium again yesterday after an extended break. I also took a few drops of MCbl prior which I also hadn't taken in awhile. I gave up on it due to the negative effects I normally get from methylated supplements and not really buying into the whole methylation narrative but I was experiencing some extreme polyuria and fatigue/overstimulation from FMN and wanted to see if would help. After the MCbl I experienced a profound calm - radically different to how it normally overstimulates me. This all led to a total remission of one of my main symptoms - polydipsia/poluria which has never once wavered or moved into a tolerable window in the duration of my illness. I was most likely B12 deficient when previously supplementing SeMet but never experienced negative effects. Taking SeMet or MCbl on its own has never led to reduction in these symptoms. This could be mostly an effect of FMN helping to utilise the MCbl more efficiently but I found this interesting and feel a definite synergy between the MCbl and selenium.

Effect of vitamin B12 status on selenium methylation and toxicity in rats: in vivo and in vitro studies.

Animals are known to convert inorganic selenium to less toxic methylated compounds such as dimethylselenide (DMSe) and trimethylselenonium (TMSe). This study investigated the role of vitamin B12, a cofactor of methionine synthetase, in selenium methylation in the rat. Vitamin B12-depleted rats expired 16% of dosed 75Se-selenite as DMSe compared to 45% for control rats and excreted less TMSe in the urine (6.1% of dose) than control (9% of dose) rats. At the same time, higher (p < 0.05) tissue (liver, kidney, muscle) selenium levels and lower (p < 0.05) blood selenium levels were found in vitamin B12-deficient rats. Primary hepatocytes from vitamin B12-deficient rats volatilized 15% of selenite in incubation medium in 5 hr as compared to 49% in hepatocytes from control rats. Hepatocytes from vitamin B12-deficient rats were less resistant to selenite toxicity. In vitro methylation of selenium with liver extract from vitamin B12-deficient rats showed one-third to one-half the rate of volatilization of selenium as compared to control rats. S-adenosylmethionine was required for this reaction. These results show that vitamin B12 deficiency significantly decreases the ability of rats to methylate selenium.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8430425
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
528
Location
Europe
After taking Selenium (L- selenomethionine, yeast free) 25mcg I get pain in my muscles, brainfog and depression feelings. Almost certain that this is a detox thing. I don't know if it's toxicity or selenium detoxing something.
Tried different forms, such as selenium liquid, but it gives the same symptoms.
Curcumin helps me with the symptoms, which gives me the confirmation that it's detox (curcumin helps with phase 2).

Is there something I could do? Do I need to go further and hope detoxing gets less, or stop because of this suspection of toxicity?
 
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