Has anyone noticed significant changes in their collagen? ( Vascular, Skin, Joints )

[Booble]

Same. They came up across my torso and back when I got EBV. I had a reactivation of EBV last year and more came up (even on my legs).

I have them on my arms, torso and legs too. I used to only get them on the inside of my arms but with this virus they sprouted on the top/outside of my arms as well.

 

[Jwarrior77]

I believe viruses, mold, and other illnesses play a huge role in collagen change but I also came across this article which talks about eosinophils changing tissue as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/collagen-degradation

I just posted a thread about the correlation of eosinophils and connective tissue disorders:. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...dysfunction-and-mast-cell-interactions.80080/

A lot of the terminology flies over my head as I'm not a scientist, but the research is really interesting none the less.

 

[RobeAnJa]

I’m new to this forum but have to bump this. I got covid-19 in April (I think). I’ve experienced many different symtoms but I must say that the changes in my skin, joints and muscles has been unbelievable. Wounds take forever to heal. My skin is thinner and dry. I seem to lose ”padding” under the skin. I’ve had my first hernia. My heals almost hurt if I put weight on them standing up. Feels like I’m standing on bone. All my joints crack or pop in normal everyday situations and they feel really instable.
I read somewhere that asymtomatic EDS can flare up after infections. I’ve never had any problems before so at times this feels unreal.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I’m new to this forum but have to bump this. I got covid-19 in April (I think). I’ve experienced many different symtoms but I must say that the changes in my skin, joints and muscles has been unbelievable.

So I wandered out to the internet, wondering about viruses taking our collagen away.

This is the first thing I stumbled upon, these poor babies who suffer from Zika virus...

So guess what? Virus found to affect the collagen forming genes in the fetus.

“In a previous study we saw that mothers with a rare mutation in their collagen genes had more chances of having babies with microcephaly if they got infected with Zika virus. In this study we found out the virus affects collagen-forming genes in foetuses,” says Renato Aguiar, a researcher at the Federal University of Minas Gerais and lead author of the study, published in Science Signaling [9 June].

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30222212/

 

[RobeAnJa]

So I wandered out to the internet, wondering about viruses taking our collagen away.

This is the first thing I stumbled upon, these poor babies who suffer from Zika virus...

So guess what? Virus found to affect the collagen forming genes in the fetus.

“In a previous study we saw that mothers with a rare mutation in their collagen genes had more chances of having babies with microcephaly if they got infected with Zika virus. In this study we found out the virus affects collagen-forming genes in foetuses,” says Renato Aguiar, a researcher at the Federal University of Minas Gerais and lead author of the study, published in Science Signaling [9 June].

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30222212/

Very interesting! I think collagen breakdown and the mechanical impact is responsible for many of my symptoms, and I plan to investigate this.

 

[RobeAnJa]

This study shows that Covid-19 can alter metabolism and that increase in catabolism of collagen can be seen. ”Although no significant changes were noted in methionine levels, increases in acetyl-methionine and hydroxyproline, by-products of proteolysis and collagen catabolism, respectively, were observed, particularly in patients with COVID-19 with the highest IL-6 levels.”

https://insight.jci.org/articles/vi...giCC42YVrkVWIHo6aaFCF51lKYQHB7CpnKCu8ysdWaqWo

 

[CristianSerious]

Hi,

I am in the same bucket of "modification of connective tissue". I "hypermobile" but I do not have EDS, see my post here:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/romanian-with-cfs.81794/#lg=post-2303745&slide=0

My CFS started from a strep throat infection.

 

[Judee]

I know you mentioned Lyme but he talks about it here too: https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/how-to-protect-your-collagen

I suspect my hyperjoint mobility may be affected by these changes as well. Once I started treating for lyme type co-infections it's like they all burrowed deeper into my joints. That first week my leg joints especially, hurt so badly.

 

[RobeAnJa]

I was told to take supplement Spermidine to help my collagen. Does it make sense? I can’t find a place to buy it?

 

[judyinthesky]

@Booble and @Zebra I've got these cherry angiomas about a year before I got very sick
They are of that type that doesn't go away
They are appearing randomly but very much on my torso, and am always itchy at this spot before one appears.

I was also in a mould setting when this happened as living in Hong Kong at this time.
I had no clue about potential relationship to collagen?

 

[judyinthesky]

I believe viruses, mold, and other illnesses play a huge role in collagen change but I also came across this article which talks about eosinophils changing tissue as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/collagen-degradation

I just posted a thread about the correlation of eosinophils and connective tissue disorders:. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...dysfunction-and-mast-cell-interactions.80080/

A lot of the terminology flies over my head as I'm not a scientist, but the research is really interesting none the less.

That is interesting
I've never had anything off with my health before mystery neuro stuff
But! I've sometimes got relative eosinophils off

 

[judyinthesky]

Ever since getting sick my collagen seemed to change rapidly but most notably my veins. My whole entire life I've considered myself to have healthy, normal veins. However after getting sick my veins changed dramatically. They began showing up way more all over my body. They became much more prominent in my chest, arms, hands, thighs and legs.

They also seemed to start changing what type of collagen they were made of. They began acting extremely stretchy, thin, and weak. It's to the point now where they don't even seem to constrict or hold blood properly now. There's actually some research on this. There have been many papers showing that mold, viruses, and Lyme bacteria either release or trigger MMPS to be released in the body causing collagen breakdown. Have you guys noticed any change in your body whether it be vascular, skin changes, or any other type? Thanks.

Plus I've always had very very visible veins. Anyone taking my blood is very happy.

Could there be a relationship, anyone?

 

[pattismith]

Hi, Booble

You are the first person I've come across who has also experienced such a swift dermatological change. A few months into my illness I noticed my entire body was covered with tiny red dots.

My dermatologist, who I see annualy for a skin cancer check, agreed that the sudden onset of HUNDREDS of "atypical cherry angiomas," was strange, but she was not curious enough to try and figure out WHY this happened to me.

May I ask you if you were able to identify the exact pathogen that triggered your ME/CFS?

Thanks in advance!
Zebra

You may be interested by this case:

A case of COVID-19 accompanied by cherry angiomas | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

@Tammy

 

[ChookityPop]

This study shows that Covid-19 can alter metabolism and that increase in catabolism of collagen can be seen. ”Although no significant changes were noted in methionine levels, increases in acetyl-methionine and hydroxyproline, by-products of proteolysis and collagen catabolism, respectively, were observed, particularly in patients with COVID-19 with the highest IL-6 levels.”

https://insight.jci.org/articles/vi...giCC42YVrkVWIHo6aaFCF51lKYQHB7CpnKCu8ysdWaqWo

So if we have high IL6 in general it can cause collagen catabolism?

found this:

Our study shows that IL-6, sIL-6R, or both inhibit type II collagen production by rabbit articular chondrocytes through a transcriptional control.
https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(20)68247-3/fulltext

Interleukin 17 induces cartilage collagen breakdown: novel synergistic effects in combination with proinflammatory cytokines
https://ard.bmj.com/content/61/8/704

Interleukin 6 Is Required for the Development of Collagen-induced Arthritis
https://rupress.org/jem/article/187/4/461/25647/Interleukin-6-Is-Required-for-the-Development-of

 

[Violeta]

So if we have high IL6 in general it can cause collagen catabolism?

found this:

Our study shows that IL-6, sIL-6R, or both inhibit type II collagen production by rabbit articular chondrocytes through a transcriptional control.
https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(20)68247-3/fulltext

Interleukin 17 induces cartilage collagen breakdown: novel synergistic effects in combination with proinflammatory cytokines
https://ard.bmj.com/content/61/8/704

Interleukin 6 Is Required for the Development of Collagen-induced Arthritis
https://rupress.org/jem/article/187/4/461/25647/Interleukin-6-Is-Required-for-the-Development-of

Wow, that's very helpful information. Now to get to work on lowering IL-6!

 

[ChookityPop]

Wow, that's very helpful information. Now to get to work on lowering IL-6!

How do you plan on lowering your IL-6?

 

[Violeta]

How do you plan on lowering your IL-6?

Bacopa moniera, andrographis, and bromelain lower IL-6.

 

[Ethereal55]

Chiming in here because it's a very interesting topic: As someone with EDS (probably hypermobile type) all his life, but living rather well with it, i noticed things took a turn south pretty much right after my EBV reactivation 2 years ago, after this time i also noticed rapid skin tissue breakdown (over a period of a few months i'd say) in places i never noticed this before. For instance i lost a LOT of subcutaneous fat/muscle tissue on my feet etc. with no apparent reason. It's like something has kicked EDS into overdrive, and after a lot of research and reflection i feel that it is related to the EBV triggering this by mechanisms not yet fully understood. Seems i am not the only one this has happened to seemingly

 

[Rufous McKinney]

For instance i lost a LOT of subcutaneous fat/muscle tissue on my feet etc.

its brutal to walk on my kitchen floor without socks and slippers...no fat in the feet left.

Hands, similar- using the can opener is challenging....

 

[Ethereal55]

its brutal to walk on my kitchen floor without socks and slippers...no fat in the feet left.

Hands, similar- using the can opener is challenging....

Have you done anything that might explain this? I am going back and forth on whether this may be due to me not exercising anymore like i used to ever since i got sick, or whether this is a purely biological process happening to me that i had no influence over. The theory would be that EDSers would need to constantly exercise their muscles in order to "compensate" the broken collagen, just to keep it all together so to speak, and when you suddenly STOP doing that, your muscle tissue gets less obviously like in normal people, but you don't have the collagen to back it up so your tissue is essentially "collapsing" onto itself now.