Generative AI for Analysis of Gut Microbiome Tests and Personalised Treatment Advice

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34
Has anyone else tried using ChatGPT or other generative AI to analyse their condition and suggest interventions? I would encourage anyone to have gut microbiome tests (and other tests and history) analysed by ChatGPT or similar. It has been very enlightening for me.

TLDR: my CFS was possibly caused by green tea, dark chocolate, and berries. And maybe ChatGPT has shown me how to resolve it.

I have used ChatGPT to analyse the results of a genomic gut microbiome test. I got the testing company to give me a simple spreadsheet with the relative abundance of all bacteria detected that I could then feed straight to ChatGPT.

Some features of my microbiome were:
  • Extremely high Akkermansia (and, strangely, not the usual muciniphila species);
  • Multiple Flavonifractor spp very high;
  • Overrepresentation of unknowns like UBA5446, CAG-series;
  • Low core butyrate producers: Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Roseburia spp., Eubacterium hallii all undetected;
  • Bifidobacteria absent except B. longum;
  • High levels of pathogenic Eggerthella lenta;
  • Lactobacillus and E.coli absent;
  • Culminating in low diversity.
The company's own "microbiome coach" was unable to give me ANY explanation of my peculiar results or what to do about them. She was just perplexed and at a loss for what to say since my results were unlike anything she had seen before. I had an optimal diet by their lights (a wide diversity of plant whole foods), the kind of diet that would be prescribed to fix these very issues. My two doctors who are very knowledgeable about the gut microbiome (though not specialists) were unable to account for these results or what I could do about it either.

ChatGPT straightaway identified that the high Akkermansia and Flavonifractor would be the predictable result of my years long daily consumption of green tea (high quality sencha), very dark chocolate (85-90%), and blue/rasp/blackberries and that the other issues would flow from that. I was shocked to think that these 3 things I had been consuming for their antioxidant content and which I thought would help my CFS were actually fuelling gut dysbiosis and probably contributing somewhat (or even largely causing) my CFS. I do not think the sencha/choc/berries were the whole cause by any means though. My CFS seemed to start with a cold/flu-like virus. I had had several periods of feeling mildly CFS-y for months at a time for about 12 years before the full onset. But those high-polyphenol foods maybe set the stage for full-blown CFS and then caused it to get progressively worse.

ChatGPT was then able to suggest treatments, many I had heard of and tried, some I had not: specific prebiotic fibres, specific probiotics, supplements to support the intestinal lining. But it also was able to tell me how to use and combine these treatments effectively. In the past I had used those same treatments in ways which would have frustrated their effectiveness, most notably continuing to consume the sencha, choc and berries would have blunted such interventions. I've only just started on the protocol I developed with ChatGPT, so I can't say whether its advice was correct. It could also be that it is correct about the gut dysbiosis, but that that is not a core part of the mechanism behind my CFS. The protocol is in the attachments for anyone interested in exact details.

The advantage of the GenAI is that it can analyse a huge amount of data (not only my microbiome results but all the research out there on each of the various species and on all the different treatments) and pull out the salient patterns from it. For a human to do this would be extremely time consuming. Since it retains what you have already discussed with it, you can ask it for more and more specific analysis and advice in a way that just couldn't do even if you were lucky enough to have access to a specialist who knew all the research. Of course, I am in no way suggesting that ChatGPT et al. can or should be a substitute for your doctor. But they can be a useful complement, especially in relation to conditions like CFS where the research is so far from mature, and what research there is is not well-known to general practitioners.

I'll be interested to hear about other people's adventures in AI and/or gut microbiome modification!
 

Attachments

  • ME_CFS_Gut Analysis and Protocol.pdf
    4 KB · Views: 12
  • chatgpt phased probiotic plan.pdf
    76.3 KB · Views: 13
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pamojja

Senior Member
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2,713
Location
Austria
I'll be interested to hear about other people's adventures in AI!

I had a surprising ubiome test only in the end of 2017. Right after I experienced the remission of symptoms of PEMs, 3 years before that already remission of a walking-disability from PAD, and again 3 years earlier from symptoms of COPD.

So I ignored AI suggestions by ubiome and microbiomeprescription then. Just now I checked microbiomeprescription again, recommendations for things to take or avoid have changed some, in the 8 years since the test. It does have now a button going to perplexity.ai for a suggestion summary (just general, and not individualized), and one button going to ChatGPT, empty page (guess one would have to be logged in).

My result was surprising, because it showed a microbiome more similar to hunter-gatherers than Westerners (I did travel overland a decade in central amerika, whole africa and south asia; collecting numerous parasites: amoebas, bilharzia, malarias, tuberculosis..).

93rd diversity percentile, low body weight match and high wellness match.

Overview:

95.8 Wellness Match Score (This score represents the overlap between the microbes in your sample and the average microbiome of individuals in our group of Selected Samples. These are samples from individuals who report no ailments and high levels of wellness.)

Healthy Weight Microbes:
0.33x than Selected Samples (Akkermansia muciniphila, Bifidobacterium, Coprococcus, and Roseburia..)

Unique Microbes:
10 bacteria in your sample that are found least frequently in our results (Seldom seen bacteria are less likely to have been studied in depth, but the rarity of these specimens does not indicate they are beneficial or harmful.)
0.9% of Samples: Elusimicrobia - Elusimicrobia - Elusimicrobiales - Elusimicrobiaceae - Elusimicrobium
1.8% of Samples: Spirochaetes - Spirochaetia
1.3% of Samples: Fretibacterium
2.1% of Samples: Sedimentibacter
2.6% of Samples: Syntrophococcus

Gluten-Digesting Microbes
<0.05x than Selected Samples (Enterococcus faecalis, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, and Bacillus licheniformis..)

Anti-Inflammatory Microbes:
- Butyrate-producing microbes:
>2x than Selected Samples (Anaerostipes, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Eubacterium, and Roseburia..)
- Propionate-producing microbes:
0.28x than Selected Samples (Akkermansia muciniphila, Eubacterium, Roseburia, and Ruminococcus..)
- Polyamine-producing microbes:
1.23x than Selected Samples (Bifidobacterium..)

Lactose-Digesting Microbes:
0.29x than Lactose Intolerant People (Your sample has a lower abundance of bacteria that may help reduce the symptoms of lactose intolerance than people who identify as lactose intolerant. Bifidobacterium, Lactobacillus, Faecalibacterium, and Roseburia..)

Artificial Sweeteners and Your Microbes
0.19x than Artificial Sweeteners Consumers

Probiotic Microbes:
0x than Selected Samples (Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium)
0.24x than Selected Samples (Akkermansia)

Probiotic Foods Microbes
0x than yogurt, pickles and sauerkraut consumers (which I consume daily!)

Microbial Diversity:
8.60 out of 10 diversity score (Microbial diversity scores can range from 0 to 10, with 10 being the most diverse. Most people have a score between 6 and 9. A score of 10 — maximum diversity — is not common.)

Alcohol and Your Microbes (microbes often reduced in people whose alcohol use is damaging their gut barrier):
0.87x than Selected Samples (0.85x in Alcohol Consumers)

Alcohol Metabolism (compared your abundance of two groups of bacteria):
1x of Accumulators (those that turn alcohol into toxic acetaldehyde)
10x of Decomposers (and those that then break it down: Lactobacillus, Streptococcus, and Bacteroides)

Sleep Microbes:
- Serotonin-producing microbes (Streptococcus and Enterococcus):
0.14x than Selected Samples
- GABA-producing microbes (Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium):
<0.05x than Selected Samples

Vitamin-Producing Microbes:
- Vitamin K (bacteria which use vitamin K1 to produce vitamin K2):
3.30% compared to Selected Samples
- Vitamin B9 (folate) producing bacteria:
31.33% compared to Selected Samples

(http://microbiomeprescription.azurewebsites.net/data/CoreSupplements):
Biotin (Vitamin B7) 66.5
Butyrate 106.8
Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) 109.1
Folate (Vitamin B9) 73.9
gamma-Amino butyric acid (GABA) 0
Niacin (Vitamin B3) 69.3
Pantothenate (Vitamin B5) 67.9
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 74.9
Thiamine (Vitamin B1) 62.4
Vitamin K 35.3

Nutrient Metabolism:
- Complex Carbohydrates metabolizing bacteria (Bacteroides, Roseburia, Butyrivibrio, Ruminococcus, Bifidobacterium, and Prevotella..):
82% compared to Selected Samples
- Lipid metabolizing bacteria:
61% compared to Selected Samples
- Amino acid metabolizing bacteria:
38% compared to Selected Samples

TMA-Producing Microbes (gut microbes that produce trimethylamine (TMA), a chemical that is later converted within the body to trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO):
0.53x than Selected Samples

Suggestions​

To Take or IncreaseTo Avoid or Decrease

SuggestionTypeWeight
Trametes versicolor {Turkey tail}Food (excluding seasonings)  522.1
a-Gluco-oligosaccharides {GOS}Prebiotics and similar  499.5
raffinose {sugar beet}Sugar and similar  428.5
ß-(1?4)-linked D-glucosamine and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine {Chitosan}Sugar and similar  426.2
Perna canaliculus {Green-lipped mussel}Food (excluding seasonings)  421.3
restricted-fiber diet {low fiber diet}Diet Style  415.9
tomato powderFood (excluding seasonings)  414.9
Laurencia tristicha {Marine red algae}Food (excluding seasonings)  400.1
Riboflavin {Vitamin B2}Vitamins, Minerals and similar  398.9
Schinus molle {Peruvian pepper}Herb or Spice  391.8
Handroanthus impetiginosus {pink trumpet tree}Herb or Spice  391.8
rosmarinus officinalis {rosemary}Herb or Spice  358.8
resistant starchPrebiotics and similar  357.4
Adeps suillus {Lard}Food (excluding seasonings)  350.2
Theobroma cacao {Cacao}Food (excluding seasonings)  347.4
Abelmoschus {Okra}Food (excluding seasonings)  347.1
Silybum marianum {milk thistle}Herb or Spice  343.4
Hypericum perforatum {St. John's Wort}Herb or Spice  342.5
resveratrol-pterostilbene x Quercetin {quercetin x resveratrol}Flavonoids, Polyphenols etc  334.7
Glycine max {Doenjang}Food (excluding seasonings)  334.4
low-fat dietsDiet Style  332.3
Magnesium Compounds {Magnesium supplements}Vitamins, Minerals and similar  330.1
cranberry bean flourFood (excluding seasonings)  322.7
oolong teasFood (excluding seasonings)  312
lactobacillus paracasei,lactobacillus acidophilus,bifidobacterium animalisProbiotics  308.3
ascophyllum nodosum {Rockweed}Food (excluding seasonings)  307.8
Ocimum basilicum {Basil}Herb or Spice  307.1
Ribes nigrum {black currant}Food (excluding seasonings)  304
ficus carica {fig}Food (excluding seasonings)  299.7
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens {B.amyloliquefaciens }Probiotics  296.8
SuggestionTypeWeight
walnutsFood (excluding seasonings)  -780.1
gliadin, glutenin etc {Gluten}Food (excluding seasonings)  -744.9
nutsFood (excluding seasonings)  -661.3
vegetableFood (excluding seasonings)  -647
olive oil {olive oil}Food (excluding seasonings)  -640.7
Hordeum vulgare {Barley}Food (excluding seasonings)  -632
(2->1)-beta-D-fructofuranan {Inulin}Prebiotics and similar  -621.3
low protein dietDiet Style  -618.2
whole-grain dietDiet Style  -590.4
Sodium Chloride {Salt}Food (excluding seasonings)  -582.9
Capsicum annuum {Peppers} {Cayenne Pepper, Hot Pepper}Food (excluding seasonings)  -540.3
Clostridium butyricum MIYAIRI 588 {Miyarisan}Probiotics  -535.1
Avena sativa x Hordeum vulgare {barley,oat}Food (excluding seasonings)  -520.8
a-Amino-3-indolepropionic acid {Tryptophan}Amino Acid and similar  -516.9
d-galactose {milk sugar}Sugar and similar  -513.3
Rhubarb x Peony {Rhubarb Peony Decoction}Herb or Spice  -510.9
vegetariansFood (excluding seasonings)  -506.9
high carbohydrate dietDiet Style  -503.3
bifidobacterium pseudocatenulatum {B. pseudocatenulatum }Probiotics  -502.4
Bifidobacterium catenulatum subsp. catenulatum {Bifidobacterium catenulatum}Probiotics  -502
Pediococcus pentosaceus {P. pentosaceus}Probiotics  -499.6
D-ribofuranoside {Ribose}Sugar and similar  -492.4
Arthrospira platensis {Spirulina}Herb or Spice  -449.7
Pentahydroxypentane {Xylitol}Sugar and similar  -435.6
Polydextrose {polydextrose}Sugar and similar  -424.7
Arctium lappa {Burdock Root}Food (excluding seasonings)  -419.1
Vaccinium myrtillus {Bilberry}Food (excluding seasonings)  -408.9
lactobacillus rhamnosus ggProbiotics  -404.3
Heyndrickxia coagulans {B. coagulans}Probiotics  -401.9
GlycerolFood (excluding seasonings)  -396.1
No Probiotics without some adverse risks could not be identified.
To adjust your gut microbiota by lowering certain bacteria and increasing others, you can target your diet based on current scientific understanding. Below is a summary of dietary strategies tailored to your goals:

Lowering Specific Bacteria​

Targeted Bacteria:
Alloprevotella, Anaerosporobacter, Anaerostipes, Clostridium, Enterorhabdus, Lactonifactor, Oscillospira, Pseudoflavonifractor, Shuttleworthia, Syntrophococcus
Dietary Approaches:
  • Reduce Animal Protein and Saturated Fat: High meat, dairy, and saturated fat diets are associated with increases in certain anaerobic bacteria like Clostridium and Bacteroides (but not necessarily all the bacteria you want to lower; however, some of these genera may thrive in similar environments)16.
  • Increase Fiber and Plant-Based Foods: A high-fiber, plant-rich diet can shift the balance away from some Firmicutes (which includes many of the genera you listed, as many are Firmicutes or associated with similar niches) toward Bacteroidetes and bifidobacteria578.
  • Avoid Refined Carbohydrates: Eliminating refined carbs and sugars can help reduce overgrowth of certain bacteria that thrive on simple sugars5.
  • Incorporate Fermented Foods: Fermented foods (like yogurt, kefir, kimchi, sauerkraut) can increase beneficial bacteria (like Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium) and may competitively suppress some of the less desirable genera67.
  • Polyphenol-Rich Foods: Foods rich in polyphenols (berries, nuts, dark chocolate, tea, coffee) can modulate the microbiota and reduce the abundance of some Firmicutes and other undesired bacteria9.
Note: Many of the bacteria you want to lower (e.g., Clostridium, Anaerostipes, Oscillospira, etc.) are generally associated with high-fat, high-protein, or low-fiber diets. Increasing fiber, especially soluble fiber, and reducing animal products can help shift the balance67.

Increasing Specific Bacteria​

Targeted Bacteria:
Bacteroides, Barnesiella, Coprobacter, Phocaeicola, Senegalimassilia
Dietary Approaches:
  • Increase Dietary Fiber: Bacteroides (and related genera like Barnesiella, Phocaeicola, Senegalimassilia) thrive on fiber, especially soluble fiber found in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, seeds, and legumes357.
  • Prebiotic Foods: Onions, garlic, leeks, chicory, artichokes, bananas, and other prebiotic-rich foods specifically feed Bacteroides and related beneficial bacteria57.
  • Balanced Protein Intake: While animal protein increases certain Bacteroides, plant proteins and a balanced diet (not dominated by animal products) support a healthier gut microbiota overall17.
  • Fermented Foods: These support a diverse microbiota and may indirectly promote the growth of beneficial bacteria like Bacteroides by improving gut health7.

Summary Table​

GoalDietary Strategy
Lower listed generaMore fiber, less animal protein, avoid refined carbs
Increase listed generaMore fiber (esp. soluble), prebiotics, fermented foods

Practical Dietary Tips​

  • Eat a variety of colorful fruits and vegetables daily.
  • Choose whole grains over refined grains.
  • Include legumes, nuts, and seeds.
  • Consume fermented foods like yogurt, kefir, kimchi, or sauerkraut.
  • Limit red meat, dairy, and saturated fats.
  • Eat prebiotic foods such as onions, garlic, leeks, and artichokes.
  • Avoid processed foods and sugary snacks.

Additional Notes​

  • Individual responses vary: Gut microbiota changes are influenced by genetics, current microbiome, and lifestyle.
  • Consistency is key: Long-term dietary changes are more effective than short-term interventions.
  • Monitor your health: If you have specific health conditions, consult a healthcare professional before making significant dietary changes.
This approach is based on current evidence linking diet to the relative abundance of gut bacteria, but keep in mind that some bacteria (like Coprobacter) are less studied and their dietary preferences are not as well understood7. However, increasing fiber and plant-based foods is a reliable strategy for promoting Bacteroides and related beneficial bacteria while reducing some Firmicutes and other undesired genera.
  1. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1521691823000069
  2. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6835969/
  3. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7301863/
  4. https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...e-gut-microbiota-involved-in-weight-loss.aspx
  5. https://www.sutterhealth.org/health/how-gut-health-affects-weight
  6. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4034294/
  7. https://biomes.world/en/interesting-facts/intestine/intestinal-bacteria/bacteroidetes/
  8. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/nutrition/articles/10.3389/fnut.2019.00047/full
  9. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-90453-7

Obviously, I didn't want to tinker with an already remissions enducing system, other than what I already did. Regular monitoring various lab markers of this whole body system. And trying to optimize those. Might be further downstream from the microbiome, but so are remissions.

1749474658669.png

However, today the precision in testing has probably taken leaps too. @SpacePenguin , which was your testing company? How many different bacteria it could identify?
With gone ubiome and my test it was still 44% at the specie level only.
 
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pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,713
Location
Austria
ChatGPT straightaway identified that the high Akkermansia and Flavonifractor would be the predictable result of my years long daily consumption of green tea (high quality sencha), very dark chocolate (85-90%), and blue/rasp/blackberries and that the other issues would flow from that. I was shocked to think that these 3 things I had been consuming for their antioxidant content and which I thought would help my CFS were

Note: I've eaten about 20g of at least 85% dark chocolate, 20g 100% cocoa powder, 0,9 tea extract, daily blueberries at breakfast, along with 1g different berry extracts, and 1g of Triphala extract. To mention only this small part of my dietary and supplemental intake in average for 10 years until my ubiome result:
  • 10% of akkermansia only,
  • 40% of flavonifractor only, then the average of the tested population.
Despite me high intake, why it had been so abnormal low in my sample? Did you eat more tea, chocolate or berries than me?
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
6,386
Location
Alberta
I was shocked to think that these 3 things I had been consuming for their antioxidant content and which I thought would help my CFS were actually fuelling gut dysbiosis and probably contributing somewhat (or even largely causing) my CFS.
That's the problem with not knowing the mechanism of ME: any theory about what might be good or bad for ME is pure guesswork. Are supplemental antioxidants good for you? Flip a coin to get the answer. Many people would say that theoretically, peroxynitrite scavengers should be helpful, but they make my ME symptoms worse.

Working out a complex protocol is easier for a well-understood disease, and there's likely abundant practical experience of what works and doesn't work for many people. How can we apply that to ME, where we don't know what's going on and we all seem to respond differently to various things?

The advantage of the GenAI is that it can analyse a huge amount of data (not only my microbiome results but all the research out there on each of the various species and on all the different treatments) and pull out the salient patterns from it.
Unfortunately, as we've seen in another thread, AIs incorrectly weigh the validity of text in research papers (some of them blatant fakes), so you'll have to do your own searching through the data and make your own judgements. It does give some ideas of what possibilities to consider. I certainly wouldn't take some risky drugs or herbs or supplements just because and AI gave me a protocol based on possibly bad or fake research papers.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,389
Akkermansia muciniphila levels have been found to be higher than normal in people with Parkinson's.

Reduced levels of akkermansia have been associated with ME/CFS.

PS: SpacePenguin, I am not suggesting you have Parkinson's.
 
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Messages
34
Some other sites that may be worth browsing:
  1. My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@MicrobiomePrescription
  2. My CFS specific Blog: https://cfsremission.com/
  3. My Microbiome Blog: https://blog.microbiomeprescription.com/

Thanks, Ken! I have tremendous respect for all the work you've done on CFS Remission and on Microbiome Prescription. I've been following and using your work almost since you started the blog in 2012. They are wonderful resources. Though, to be frank, the amount of information was overwhelming for me. ChatGPT was able to help me identify patterns that I had missed and to more easily evaluate what course to take.
 
Messages
34
Amazing, so far I have looked up akkermamsia + green tea and + blueberries and there are studies saying they increase akkermansia.

blueberries
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37428472/#:~:text=Abstract,and function of gut microbes.

green tea
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32598202/
Yes, of course I have been aware of that and loads of other associations for years and years. The trouble is in pulling together, synthesising, and evaluating the absolutely massive amount of information. I had wondered whether the Akkermansia was an issue, but overall came to the conclusion that it was probably a red herring. Neither of my doctors or microbiome coach thought it was a problem. Akkermansia (as muciniphila) is generally beneficial. I couldn't find any information about non-muciniphila species, so I figured that my species must just be a slight variant, but it seems non-muciniphila species can be a problem. It seemed to me that the extreme levels of akkermansia might well be a consequence of other gut issues and CFS, and that the green tea elevated it. But since green tea was generally indicated for CFS (as an inflammatory condition), it seemed like it would be overall beneficial. Likewise, the blueberries and cocoa (as anti-inflammatory) are generally beneficial for CFS and gut health, especially for bifidobacteria, which I was missing.
 
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Messages
34
That's the problem with not knowing the mechanism of ME: any theory about what might be good or bad for ME is pure guesswork. Are supplemental antioxidants good for you? Flip a coin to get the answer. Many people would say that theoretically, peroxynitrite scavengers should be helpful, but they make my ME symptoms worse.

Working out a complex protocol is easier for a well-understood disease, and there's likely abundant practical experience of what works and doesn't work for many people. How can we apply that to ME, where we don't know what's going on and we all seem to respond differently to various things?


Unfortunately, as we've seen in another thread, AIs incorrectly weigh the validity of text in research papers (some of them blatant fakes), so you'll have to do your own searching through the data and make your own judgements. It does give some ideas of what possibilities to consider. I certainly wouldn't take some risky drugs or herbs or supplements just because and AI gave me a protocol based on possibly bad or fake research papers.
Yes, I totally agree that you have to look into the results that GenAI gives you. I certainly wouldn't take it at face value. From the digging I have done into the sources ChatGPT used in my case, its claims did seem to be fairly well-supported (but I didn't have the energy to verify it in depth). I don't think you could call any of the things it recommended for me as unsafe or risk (except financially). I mean: the key advice was to stop consuming tea, berries, and chocolate and to take partially hydrolysed guar gum. You can hardly get more low-risk interventions! Well, there is the initial flatulence with the PHGG xD
 
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Messages
34
However, today the precision in testing has probably taken leaps too. @SpacePenguin , which was your testing company? How many different bacteria it could identify?
With gone ubiome and my test it was still 44% at the specie level only.
My testing was by Microba (now called Co-Biome) in Australia in 2018. The species list is very extensive. 60 were detected in my sample, but I had lots that were tested for but undetectable and very low diversity. Even back in 2018 Microba were using shotgun metagenomics, which I understand is still the most extensive and accurate for of testing (although some naming conventions have changed since then).
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
18,251
my CFS was possibly caused by green tea, dark chocolate, and berries.

That sounds rather unlikely. ME/CFS is usually triggered by viral infection, vaccinations, or sometimes physical traumas such as a car accident, and sometimes after major surgery. Factors which may predispose to ME/CFS development include mould exposure, organophosphate pesticide exposure, major chronic stress, and being given corticosteroids during an acute viral infection.
 
Messages
34
That sounds rather unlikely. ME/CFS is usually triggered by viral infection, vaccinations, or sometimes physical traumas such as a car accident, and sometimes after major surgery. Factors which may predispose to ME/CFS development include mould exposure, organophosphate pesticide exposure, major chronic stress, and being given corticosteroids during an acute viral infection.
Yes, I'm aware of all that. That is the deliberately flippant and over-simplified "too long: didn't read". As I say further on: "I do not think the sencha/choc/berries were the whole cause by any means" and a viral infection in particular seemed to be the trigger.
 
Messages
34
Note: I've eaten about 20g of at least 85% dark chocolate, 20g 100% cocoa powder, 0,9 tea extract, daily blueberries at breakfast, along with 1g different berry extracts, and 1g of Triphala extract. To mention only this small part of my dietary and supplemental intake in average for 10 years until my ubiome result:
  • 10% of akkermansia only,
  • 40% of flavonifractor only, then the average of the tested population.
Despite me high intake, why it had been so abnormal low in my sample? Did you eat more tea, chocolate or berries than me?
Yes, of course what I was consuming should NOT of itself have produced these abnormalities. There must be and have been something else going on. I was having 20g of 85% choc, 2-3 cups of sencha (up to ~10g total), and 80-90g of berries per day, all of which should promote gut and general health.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,389
Yes, of course I have been aware of that and loads of other associations for years and years. The trouble is in pulling together, synthesising, and evaluating the absolutely massive amount of information. I had wondered whether the Akkermansia was an issue, but overall came to the conclusion that it was probably a red herring. Neither of my doctors or microbiome coach thought it was a problem. Akkermansia (as muciniphila) is generally beneficial. I couldn't find any information about non-muciniphila species, so I figured that my species must just be a slight variant, but it seems non-muciniphila species can be a problem. It seemed to me that the extreme levels of akkermansia might well be a consequence of other gut issues and CFS, and that the green tea elevated it. But since green tea was generally indicated for CFS (as an inflammatory condition), it seemed like it would be overall beneficial. Likewise, the blueberries and cocoa (as anti-inflammatory) are generally beneficial for CFS and gut health, especially for bifidobacteria, which I was missing.
I did think you already knew that, but I didn't know that and was surprised to find those studies.

It is hard to find other information about the non-muciniphila type of akkermansia.
Yes, of course I have been aware of that and loads of other associations for years and years. The trouble is in pulling together, synthesising, and evaluating the absolutely massive amount of information. I had wondered whether the Akkermansia was an issue, but overall came to the conclusion that it was probably a red herring. Neither of my doctors or microbiome coach thought it was a problem. Akkermansia (as muciniphila) is generally beneficial. I couldn't find any information about non-muciniphila species, so I figured that my species must just be a slight variant, but it seems non-muciniphila species can be a problem. It seemed to me that the extreme levels of akkermansia might well be a consequence of other gut issues and CFS, and that the green tea elevated it. But since green tea was generally indicated for CFS (as an inflammatory condition), it seemed like it would be overall beneficial. Likewise, the blueberries and cocoa (as anti-inflammatory) are generally beneficial for CFS and gut health, especially for bifidobacteria, which I was missing.
I just put those link up because I was surprised to find them, and also because someone said somethng about bad or fake research papers. I was going to look up all the other bacteria but ran out of energy.

This is very interesting about the eggerthella lenta.
During a pre clinical model, Eggerthella lenta was found to reduce amino acids such as arginine, citrulline and tryptophan metabolites to levels found in older persons and can trigger autoimmune responses before the onset of the clinical symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis in which the immune system produces autoantibodies that mistakenly target and attack the body's tissues and cells instead of invading viruses or bacteria.

E. lenta levels are enriched in inflammatory bowel disease, and the bacterium has been shown to activate T helper 17 cells. It has been shown to worsen colitis in mice models.[6] E. lenta has been found to be present in higher levels in the gut of people with Graves' disease.

There is some interesting information if you look up those amino acids + me/cfs.

And too bad there isn't a prausnitzii product available.
 
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pamojja

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Thanks, Ken! I have tremendous respect for all the work you've done on CFS Remission and on Microbiome Prescription. .. Though, to be frank, the amount of information was overwhelming for me.
So I ignored AI suggestions by ubiome and microbiomeprescription then.

Just to ascertain nobody interprets this as not appreciating @Lassesen amazing work: I would of course have experimented with some suggestions (where sensible possible; avoiding vegetables, high carbohydrate and high fat diet at the same time would have been almost impossible), if I hadn't experienced even 3, each of them highly improbable remissions just before. My microbiome is very unique in its composition (as to a certain extent everyone's) and there simply isn't any research available, for possible correlations of its diet factors, my health status and microbiome composition.

How many different bacteria it could identify?
With gone ubiome and my test it was still 44% at the specie level only.
My testing was by Microba (now called Co-Biome) in Australia in 2018. The species list is very extensive. 60 were detected in my sample, but I had lots that were tested for but undetectable and very low diversity. Even back in 2018 Microba were using shotgun metagenomics, which I understand is still the most extensive and accurate for of testing

So your sample was soon after mine. With 44% I meant all those speicies found, of 100% in total. Actually 76 distinct found. However, many related specie could have bee very nasty, non-detected. Just think of my 7.7% undifferentiated phylum of Spirochaete!

(Adding all phylum, class, order, family, genus, and specie up, 241. But unique, 91 only.)

I do have my doubt about the actionable-ability of usually so many bacteria not taken into account. The different tests listed on microbiomeprescription now can detect between 1300 and 6000 distinct bacteria. Which would improve on accuracy nowadays.

Considering that western man contains up to about 1000 spezie, already mingling Hadza Hunter-Gatherer up to 2000, and formerly uncontacted Yanomani tribe up to 4000 distinct bacteria.

I was having 20g of 85% choc, 2-3 cups of sencha (up to ~10g total), and 80-90g of berries per day, all of which should promote gut and general health.

Can you remember for how many years you've been on such intakes, before your test in 2018?
 
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