Drinking baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) may treat autoimmune disease

[lafarfelue]

I also got sleepy with the high dose on the first day, but I am now down to a much lower dose, about 1g, 1/4 of a teaspoon and that seems to be better and not making me sleepy. I think I feel some improvement, but it's just day 3. I am definitely not getting worse (so far).

If I recall correctly from other threads discussing bicarb soda for PEM, just be careful to space it between any meals as it reduces the gut's ability to digest properly.

 

[Wonkmonk]

The effect seems to be dose dependent. Half a level teespoon or more makes me dizzy, sleepy and a bit feeling worse for several hours. Up to half a level teespoon makes me feel a little bit better.

 

[Hip]

The effect seems to be dose dependent. Half a level teespoon or more makes me dizzy, sleepy and a bit feeling worse for several hours. Up to half a level teespoon makes me feel a little bit better.

Half a level teaspoon (about 2.5 grams on my weighing scales) is still quite a high dose, which will cause significant alkalizing effects in the body.

The dizziness likely arises because the more alkalized blood constricts cerebral blood vessels, reducing blood supply to the brain.

You get the same dizziness if you hyperventilate, and for the same reason: hyperventilation breathing expels more acidic CO2 from the blood, thus increasing blood alkalinity, and in turn reducing cerebral blood supply: Ref: here.

 

[Wonkmonk]

Half a level teaspoon (about 2.5 grams on my weighing scales) is still quite a high dose, which will cause significant alkalizing effects in the body.

That seems to be about the dose where it starts feeling not so good. In the study you posted at the beginning, they are taking 2 grams a day for positive effects on autoimmunity, so that's pretty close to where I think it starts getting worse for me.

But overall, it feels like it has some positive effect. I will definitely continue.

I am wondering if this can somehow be tied to herpes simplex virus 1. So far, Valtrex and Lysine have helped me a bit, and they are both HSV-1 remedies. In herpes forums, there is talk about how alkalizing the body in general and bicarbonate specifically may help prevent HSV outbreaks, but I haven't found any study or scientific piece of evidence that corroborates this hypothesis.

 

[Binkie4]

Do I remember sodium bicarbonate being used for D lactate acidosis, which has been suggested as an alternative diagnosis to ME/cfs?

 

[jesse's mom]

I have been using the Baking Soda and water for a few weeks now, when I remember and with good results!
No new viral colds, or huge candida problems, heartburn much better!
My nurse practitioner suggested I add an ounce of raw apple cider vinegar, she thinks it will help with
many issues I am having due to being mostly bedridden for the last year.
She thinks it will help my cholesterol, and help with kidney function.

@Hip
What do you think?

 

[Hip]

My nurse practitioner suggested I add an ounce of raw apple cider vinegar, she thinks it will help with
many issues I am having due to being mostly bedridden for the last year.

Cider vinegar taken at the same time as the baking soda will neutralize the alkalinity of the baking soda, so if you want to try vinegar, it is probably best taken at least an hour away from the baking soda. Vinegar is good to take with meals, as its acidity will help with food digestion.

 

[PatJ]

In the first couple of hours until about 1 am (my normal bedtime), I didn't feel very well. I felt dizzy and felt like my heart is beating stronger. But this may well be a nocebo effect because Hip also mentioned getting dizzy above, or the dose was perhaps a bit high.

When I first learned about taking baking soda to reduce urine acidity I tried 1/2 teaspoon on a couple of days and noticed breathing difficulty and symptoms of alkalosis. I lowered the dose to 1/8-1/4 teaspoon a couple of times per day for a week then tried 1/2 teaspoon again without encountering the same symptoms. Now I take 1/2 teaspoon at least twice per day without any problems. My body needed a short adjustment period.

My urine usually has PH 5-6

Below 6 and you're probably at risk of kidney damage from acidic urine eroding kidney tissue.

I also noted that despite drinking 1.5 litres with the soda, my urine was pretty dark yellow.

Your kidneys might be working (filtering) better due to less strain from your usually acidic urine. Another way to see this effect (for me, and lab rats according to one study) is to use a heating pad over the kidneys (especially a far-infrared pad) which causes increased blood flow which leads to increased urine filtration and, often, darker urine.

And indeed I think I am feeling a bit better today than yesterday and lower back pain is a bit better, too, but this may very well be a placebo effect.

If you often have lower back pain then it might be aching kidneys due to your acidic urine.

Excess protein makes my urine more acidic. I found recently that I was getting kidney discomfort and excessively foamy urine (a sign of protein discharge through possibly damaged kidneys) if I ate more than a small amount of protein (even 5-10 grams). I thought it might be kidney failure but then discovered that if I take digestive enzymes (plus my usual betaine HCL) that I can tolerate more protein without kidney ache or increased urine acidity and foam.

I think my pancreas isn't outputting enough digestive enzymes so undigested proteins are getting into my bloodstream and my kidneys are having to deal with them leading to acidic urine, foam (sits in the bowl for longer than 20-30 seconds), kidney ache and probably kidney damage.

 

[jesse's mom]

Cider vinegar taken at the same time as the baking soda will neutralize the alkalinity of the baking soda, so if you want to try vinegar, it is probably best taken at least an hour away from the baking soda. Vinegar is good to take with meals, as its acidity will help with food digestion.

Thank you

Just for my clarity I would drink the baking soda upon waking. Then do the shot of vinegar before breakfast an hour after I wake up. I do not tolerate coffee anymore so the first hour before breakfast I drink only water. Correct?

 

[iwillwin1day]

Sodium bicarbonate can be fatal in high dose. So be careful not to over do it.

 

[Wonkmonk]

Thanks for pointing this out, PatJ.

I am taking Valacyclovir, which can be nephrotoxic, and therefore my kidney function is being monitored regularly. So far, it has always been inside the norm. But I will look into the urine acidity issue with my doctor. Maybe it would be good to take the baking soda long-term. I don't tolerate most alkaline foods very well.

I suspect that the baking soda is cumulating in the body to some extent (or the effect is building up over a longer term). A dose that wouldn't have had a negative effect a couple of days ago is now giving me headache and makes me sleepy.

It's maybe best for me to go to an even lower dose or just take it occasionally every 2nd or 3rd day.

 

[kangaSue]

The dizziness likely arises because the more alkalized blood constricts cerebral blood vessels, reducing blood supply to the brain.

Taking sodium bicarbonate can also cause a higher excretion of potassium and a deficiency in potassium can produce symptoms of dizziness and palpitations. One way around that is to have a mix of 2 parts sodium bicarbonate and 1 part of potassium bicarbonate.

It is my understanding that because the blood pH is maintained in a very tightly controlled range and kidneys are very effective at removing excess bicarbonate, you can't alkalize the blood by taking sodium bicarbonate unless you have severe chronic kidney disease or are seriously ill with another condition known to cause alkalosis or you're taking a huge quantity of sodium bicarbonate.

That is to say that only the urine will become more alkalised with sensible supplementing and all cases I've seen of metabolic alkalosis in the medical literature involves the consumption of several hundred grams of sodium bicarbonate in a day.

According to what I've read, the addition of apple cider vinegar at the ratio of 2 teaspoons per 1/8th teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate still makes a solution that is on the alkaline side.

 

[Hip]

It is my understanding that because the blood pH is maintained in a very tightly controlled range and kidneys are very effective at removing excess bicarbonate, you can't alkalize the blood by taking sodium bicarbonate unless you have severe chronic kidney disease or are seriously ill with another condition known to cause alkalosis or you're taking a huge quantity of sodium bicarbonate.

Yes, you cannot substantially change blood pH with normal doses of sodium bicarbonate, and neither would you want to, because as you say it is tightly controlled (and for good reason). You can only change pH by a very small amount, within the tight pH range that the blood is maintained.

However, what you are also doing when taking bicarbonate is kicking into gear the mechanisms that actually maintain normal pH. An analogy would be a thermostatically-controlled heating system in a house: because this system maintains the house a more-or-less constant temperature, you cannot change the house temperature just by blowing cold air into the house, because the heating system will automatically respond by turning the furnace on, to counteract the cold air. But although the cold air has not changed the temperature, it has done something: it has caused the furnace to be switched on.

In the case of alkalizing with bicarbonate (or an alkalizing diet), you don't change the blood pH much, but presumably you do switch on the counteractive mechanisms that actually maintain normal pH, which may then have knock-on effects.

 

[Wonkmonk]

Today, I took a much lower dose, perhaps 1/16 of a teaspoon and it feels actually quite good.

I made the same experience with Lysine, where the recommendation for herpes simplex is actually 3 grams a day, but that's way too much for me, but I feel good at a few hundred milligrams every other day or every third day.

In my experience, lower doses often help better than higher doses and high doses even make me worse. It seems to be like that with baking soda.

 

[PatJ]

In my experience, lower doses often help better than higher doses and high doses even make me worse. It seems to be like that with baking soda.

So many of us are hypersensitive to medications. It's interesting that even baking soda has to be used at a lower dose. Maybe hypersensitivity explains why I had symptoms of mild alkalosis the first couple of times I tried just 1/2 tsp.

 

[kangaSue]

I've noticed another symptom change with taking this. Due to having Autonomic Neuropathy, I stopped sweating in response to heat and haven't sweated under the arms for the last six years now but that has changed in the last 3 or 4 weeks, so something I take to be a positive.

On the negative side however, I do get occasional night sweats from the neuropathy as well and these have increased in number over the last 6 weeks or so too. I though this was just due to a change of season as nights have become a bit warmer but with getting under arm sweating too, that doesn't look to be the case now.

I had the same response to Mestinon but I couldn't tolerate that med beyond the 3 weeks point.

 

[Mr.Catts]

I have idiopathic Autonomic Neuropathy along with the severe GI dysmotility of gastroparesis so I gave this a go and I .... suffering from chronic abdominal pain that is not responsive to other meds.
... H2 acid blockers (like ranitidine) have a strong anti-inflammatory affect too and the last time I stopped taking this med, I ended up in the ER with much worsened abdominal pain.

This is clearly MCAS, read Robert Afrin's, Molderings articles on mast cell activation(search on pubmed.com).
Mast cell activation disease: a concise practical guide for diagnostic workup and therapeutic options

 

[kangaSue]

This is clearly MCAS, read Robert Afrin's, Molderings articles on mast cell activation(search on pubmed.com)

Well, maybe that's the case and GI biopsies could throw some light on it but the rub is that I have chronic gut ischemia too and the last procedure I had perforated the intestine (colonoscopy) before biopsies were taken and now the stance being taken by the medico's is to protect their arses (and or reputations) and choose to do nothing, hiding behind their mantra of "first, do no harm."
I actually thinks it's more a case of mast cell activation due to a chronic GI problem (chronic gut ischemia is similar to the "other IBD", Ischemic Colitis) rather than a mast cell activation disease causing the GI problems though and I've thrown a number of other mast cell stabilizers and antihistamines at it only to have a worsening of symptoms from them.

 

[Mr.Catts]

Sure, they displace histamine, but it needs (a lot of) time for excretion in case of DAO or HNMT deficiency

 

[Wonkmonk]

Just found the first study that says alkaline PH might actually be helpful against herpes simplex 1 virus.

"HSV-1 virions were unstable at alkaline pH"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2556981