Drinking baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) may treat autoimmune disease

[Waverunner]

Could this be helpful for allergies, too?

As Hip already pointed out, it may actually be helpful against allergic diseases:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5142332/

"The FOXP3 transcription factor is constitutively expressed in CD4+CD25+FOXP3+ regulatory T cells (Tregs) and is critical for the maintenance of immune homeostasis. For example, FOXP3 is responsible for the suppression of the Th2 response following exposure to allergens. Studies have shown that expression of the FOXP3 gene is reduced in patients with asthma and allergies compared to healthy controls. Therefore, the impairment of FOXP3 function caused by genetic polymorphisms and/or epigenetic mechanisms may be involved in the etiology of asthma and other allergic diseases."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301054615000579

"In this study we identified for first time genetic variants of FOXP3 that are significantly more frequent in children who share allergic and autoimmune diseases. These variants mainly affect regulatory sequences that could alter the expression levels of FOXP3 modifying its function including its role in Treg cells."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-02260-8

"Inhibition of mTOR signaling by Bc further results in FOXP3 up-regulation and GATA-3 down-regulation, which, in turn, facilitate to control Th2-predominant and Th17 pro-inflammatory responses caused by ST."

 

[kangaSue]

I have long suspected that I have some sort of screw up involving the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway (CAP) after having abnormal autonomic function test results and the concluding diagnosis that I have idiopathic Autonomic Neuropathy along with the severe GI dysmotility of gastroparesis so I gave this a go and I have to say that there really is something in this.

I don't have ME/CFS but I would suggest this is well worth trying for anyone who has some degree of dysautonomia with decreased vagus nerve activity (and that's probably everyone with ME/CFS by the sounds of things) as well as suffering from chronic abdominal pain that is not responsive to other meds.

I have had to modify the formula here with the inclusion of adding apple cider vinegar (ACV) to the sodium bicarbonate first and waiting for the effervescing to stop before diluting with water then drinking, which I'm doing 3 times a day, 1 hour before food as the efficacy of the sodium bicarbonate as a stimulant of the CAP is said to have only about a 4 hour life. (Started out with 1/8th tsp sodium bicarbonate to 2 tsp ACV, now on 1/4 tsp of sodium bicarbonate to 4 tsp ACV in 150ml water)

I am very intolerant of many foods, supplements and meds and haven't tolerate either ACV or sodium bicarbonate alone when diluted in water in the past but it is no problem for me used as per the method above.

I gave sodium bicarbonate a try by itself again when I saw this thread but couldn't keep it down. I was actually
looking for a remedy for gastric reflux at the time, in the hope that this would help with chronic abdominal pain too, and the addition of ACV to sodium bicarbonate is suggested for gastric reflux in some articles.

I did also stop taking long term ranitidine on the same day as starting this protocol and the gastric reflux has resolved, along with a significant reduction in abdominal pain, so it would be reasonable to suggest that the issue was that I just didn't have enough stomach acid to start with but it's interesting to note that H2 acid blockers (like ranitidine) have a strong anti-inflammatory affect too and the last time I stopped taking this med, I ended up in the ER with much worsened abdominal pain.

Well, not on this occasion and as of right now, I'm also not getting abdominal pain everytime I urinate or have a bowel movement like I was beforehand, daily diarrhea is much reduced, urine output has increased back to what it used to be and I've lost most of the abdominal and pelvic bloated feelings, Psoriasis-like skin lesions on my legs are shrinking and no longer scaly and flaking, skin cuts and abrasions are not infecting like they have been, sleep is way less disturbed so I have more energy for the day

The only real disappointment so far is that food sensitivities haven't really improved any at this point after doing this for 4 weeks now but I'm hopeful that this will change given more time as this is something that has slowly worsened over the course of close to 20 years now.

Whatever problem it addresses, it works for me!

 

[kangaSue]

As Hip already pointed out, it may actually be helpful against allergic diseases:

I've misplaced the reference for this but something I read and copied down goes to the point about allergies;

[Chronic disease is always associated with a loss of voltage and you need to raise your pH to raise your voltage.

Both sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate are sources of carbon dioxide. When we increase CO2 levels, blood vessels dilate. It's suggested that alkaline tissues can hold up to 20 times more oxygen than acidic ones. When our body cells and tissue are acidic (below pH of 6.5-7.0), they lose their ability to exchange oxygen.

When cells lose their oxygen, they are losing their pH and voltage at the same time. When cell voltage is low and oxygen decreases, we see an increase of anaerobic bacteria in the gut, which begins to thrive in the low-oxygen environment.

It is important to understand that the voltage of cells and tissues is synonomous with their pH. The lower the voltage goes, the lower the pH goes, and the lower oxygen levels go as well. Wherever the body has low voltage, the cells begin to have problems that get more serious the lower the voltage (pH) goes.

One of the known side-effects of histamine excess is that it interferes with the metabolisation of both oxygen and alkalinity inside and out of the mast cell. This imbalance results in a cascade of symptoms linked to reduced oxygen (hypoxia).

By adjusting the alkaline balance of the mast cell, the natural antihistamine not only rebalances the oxygen but stabilizes the mastcell. It does not interfere with histamine degradation.]

 

[Lolinda]

low stomach acid levels that some ME/CFS patients like myself anecdotally report using the (unvalidated) bicarbonate burp test for stomach acidity level.

A validated method to test if your stomach produces enough acid upon eating a meal is here. You can do that test at home using PH test stripes bought at a pharmacy. Important: Do not take bicarb hours before the measurements or you end up completely false!

the parietal cells of the stomach that are found to be infected with chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus in patients with enterovirus-associated ME/CFS (see Dr John Chia's study).

In Europe, for example Redlab offers virus testing from tissue samples. I had their complete panel done. Had to find an openminded gastro (that's the difficult part ) and send the samples from my stomach by DHL to Belgium (thats reasonably easy and not any expensive). Redlabs is good and they have a subsidiary in USA.

@Hip thanks 1000x for posting this study!

 

[panckage]

It will still have the same benefits as far as vitamin C status is concerned, since sodium ascorbate is still a usable form of vitamin C; but once you have neutralized the alkalinity of sodium bicarbonate by reacting it with ascorbic acid, I would doubt the bicarbonate will still have this anti-autoimmune and anti-allergy effect.

This site contends that baking soda and lemon juice together both have an alkalizing effect https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/other/baking-soda-lemon.html

I find this all confusing as I would expect the stomach acid in the stomach to neutralize the baking soda anyways. I have trouble seeing how an acid (like lemon juice) would neutralize the baking soda better than our gut...

This article contains some information about the potential alkalizing properties of lemon juice
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/lemon-juice-acidic-or-alkaline#section3

 

[panckage]

I did also stop taking long term ranitidine on the same day as starting this protocol and the gastric reflux has resolved,

I found ranitidine works ok for occasional use but if i use it for a couple months straight the problem gets much worse. Its a horrible drug. Ranitidine has both tolerance and withdrawal effects. I wonder if the improvement is due to just quitting ranitidine.

 

[Hip]

I find this all confusing as I would expect the stomach acid in the stomach to neutralize the baking soda anyways.

Yes I think it will to an extent, but nevertheless, adding an alkaline to the body will reduce the overall body acidity. You have to consider the effect of an alkalizing chemical like sodium bicarbonate on the body as a whole system, and the effect on the whole system of bicarbonate is to counter acidity.

This article contains some information about the potential alkalizing properties of lemon juice
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/lemon-juice-acidic-or-alkaline#section3

I don't think lemon juice (citric acid) is alkalizing in the body. However a salt of citric acid is: sodium citrate is alkalizing, and also has the advantage that it will not neutralize stomach acid like sodium bicarbonate, so you can take this even with meals for alkalizing purposes.

 

[kangaSue]

I found ranitidine works ok for occasional use but if i use it for a couple months straight the problem gets much worse. Its a horrible drug. Ranitidine has both tolerance and withdrawal effects. I wonder if the improvement is due to just quitting ranitidine.

I've stopped taking ranitidine for a few weeks at a time on a few occasions without the reflux resolving so I don't believe it's down to stopping it alone again. Ranitidine also has good anti-inflammatory properties and I have always found that I get an increase in abdominal pain when I went off it. This didn't happen with replacing it with sodium bicarbonate which also happens to have good anti-inflammatory properties.

 

[iicybershotii]

I have Grave's Disease, IBS-D and mild CFS and after reading this article some weeks back I did my best to take it 2x/day away from meals. I noticed that it slightly softened my stools and also worsened my mild GERD that I sometimes I have (increased belching after meals specifically). I may try it again since it sounds so promising and so simple.

 

[tiredowl]

I wanted to try this remedy, but then I found this study?: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC119936/

 

[Stretched]

I have Grave's Disease, IBS-D and mild CFS and after reading this article some weeks back I did my best to take it 2x/day away from meals. I noticed that it slightly softened my stools and also worsened my mild GERD that I sometimes I have (increased belching after meals specifically). I may try it again since it sounds so promising and so simple.

Isn’t mild CFS a non sequitur, like “mild cancer?” Either you have it or you don’t. Do you mean your CFS manifests mildly=& ?

 

[iicybershotii]

Isn’t mild CFS a non sequitur, like “mild cancer?” Either you have it or you don’t. Do you mean your CFS manifests mildly=& ?

Here is the ranking system, from which the term "mild" fits my case to a tee.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...evere-and-very-severe-levels-of-me-cfs.60746/

 

[pamojja]

Isn’t mild CFS a non sequitur, like “mild cancer?”

Here a thread which the different classifications of ME/CFS: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...evere-and-very-severe-levels-of-me-cfs.60746/

Also cancer comes in stages. No one would assume a stage 1 cancer as severe as a stage 4 cancer.

 

[Wonkmonk]

I just read that alkaline supplements might help with lower back pain (which I have),

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787986

and I also read in herpes forums that it might help suppress herpes simplex reactivation (although I have seen no studies that say so).

Baking soda is alkaline, so I thought about this thread and maybe it is worth trying.

My baking soda contains sodium hydrogen carbonate and disodium pyrophosphate. According to Wikipedia, sodium hydrogen carbonate is the same as sodium bicarbonate

Would it work that way? Are both of these alkalizing or will they cancel each other out (WP says the 2nd substance is an acid)?

 

[Learner1]

From what I understand, the body tries to maintain homeostasis, so if you intervene to try to change your pH, it will adjust to counteract your intervention.

The question that might be helpful is "Why are you acidic in the first place?" and tackle the root cause.

As far as heading off herpes, lysine is helpful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3115841/

 

[Wonkmonk]

As far as I understand the study, it might work for lower back pain even when people are not too acidic, but I think most people in the West have a more acidic diet. It's hard to change my diet, because I react to many foods negatively, and many of those are those seen as more alkalizing (vegetables etc.).

I'm already doing lysine, it has helped a little, but not too much.

 

[Wonkmonk]

My baking soda contains sodium hydrogen carbonate and disodium pyrophosphate. According to Wikipedia, sodium hydrogen carbonate is the same as sodium bicarbonate

Would it work that way? Are both of these alkalizing or will they cancel each other out (WP says the 2nd substance is an acid)?

I can answer the question myself. I used baking powder and not baking soda. These are very different.

Baking soda is pure Sodium bicarbonate. It is alkalizing.

Baking powder is a mixture between baking soda and an acid. The idea is that the acid neutralizes the baking soda, a process in which the carbonate is dissolved into CO2 gas, which increases the volume and lightening the texture of baked goods.

So baking powder is NOT alkalizing. Pure baking soda is.

In fact, in baking powder, there is a lot of acid (disodium pyrophosphate in my case), because they want to make sure that as much carbonate as possible is turned into gas. The intention is to produce CO2 gas and not to make the baking products alkaline. If anything, baking powder might have more acid than needed and be net acidifying, instead of alkalizing.

I have now ordered pure baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and will try again. With the baking powder I did not feel much of a difference.

 

[Wonkmonk]

OK, I got my pure baking soda (sodium bicarbonate or in German Natriumhydrogencarbonat) yesterday. I dissolved one level tablespoon (probably 10-15g) in 1.5 litres of water and drank it at 8pm over about two hours.

In the first couple of hours until about 1 am (my normal bedtime), I didn't feel very well. I felt dizzy and felt like my heart is beating stronger. But this may well be a nocebo effect because Hip also mentioned getting dizzy above, or the dose was perhaps a bit high.

My urine usually has PH 5-6. It turned clearly alkaline about 2 hours after starting the drink. It was PH 7-8, which I never had neither in lab tests nor at home tests. It stayed at about PH 7 until 10am the next morning. Now at about noon, the alkalinity is receding. It is now PH 6.5. I also noted that despite drinking 1.5 litres with the soda, my urine was pretty dark yellow. It usually has a lighter color when I drink so much fluid.

And indeed I think I am feeling a bit better today than yesterday and lower back pain is a bit better, too, but this may very well be a placebo effect.

I'll probably try again this afternoon, but maybe with a lower dose.

 

[NotThisGuy]

OK, I got my pure baking soda (sodium bicarbonate or in German Natriumhydrogencarbonat) yesterday. I dissolved one level tablespoon (probably 10-15g) in 1.5 litres of water and drank it at 8pm over about two hours.

In the first couple of hours until about 1 am (my normal bedtime), I didn't feel very well. I felt dizzy and felt like my heart is beating stronger. But this may well be a nocebo effect because Hip also mentioned getting dizzy above, or the dose was perhaps a bit high.

My urine usually has PH 5-6. It turned clearly alkaline about 2 hours after starting the drink. It was PH 7-8, which I never had neither in lab tests nor at home tests. It stayed at about PH 7 until 10am the next morning. Now at about noon, the alkalinity is receding. It is now PH 6.5. I also noted that despite drinking 1.5 litres with the soda, my urine was pretty dark yellow. It usually has a lighter color when I drink so much fluid.

And indeed I think I am feeling a bit better today than yesterday and lower back pain is a bit better, too, but this may very well be a placebo effect.

I'll probably try again this afternoon, but maybe with a lower dose.

I noticed the same change of colour of my urine...
I also cant stop being tired and sleeping drinking bicarbonat.
No improvement though.

 

[Wonkmonk]

I also got sleepy with the high dose on the first day, but I am now down to a much lower dose, about 1g, 1/4 of a teaspoon and that seems to be better and not making me sleepy. I think I feel some improvement, but it's just day 3. I am definitely not getting worse (so far).