Dr Markov CBIS Theory of ME/CFS - General Discussion

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Dear Dr. Markov,

I’d like to ask two questions:

1. is it possible to have CBIS with low LBP levels in the blood or do bacteria in the kidneys emit LPS into the bloodstream?

2. which blood tests do you do?

Thank you

Martin

 

[Marylib]

I think they should contact Invest in ME Research Charity in Europe. Or Bupesh Prusty - someone who speaks European languages.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I think they should contact Invest in ME Research Charity in Europe. Or Bupesh Prusty - someone who speaks European languages.

Well, we have quite a few languages here

 

[seamyb]

Well, we have quite a few languages here

Plus we're all speaking a European language right now

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Plus we're all speaking a European language right now

¿Cómo?

 

[Thinktank]

How do you measure LPS in the bloodstream? Do you use the (soluble) CD14 test?

 

[nerd]

My CFS/ME is often accompanied by urinary tract inflammation, but without obvious infection markers in the strips. At one point, when it got as bad as it currently is, and when I lost a lot of weight, I also had urinary tract inflammation. I'm male and I certainly know that I didn't get STDs, so it's very untypical to repeatedly develop this.

I also have some sorts of chronic ear infection. I had antibiotics treatment a few years before, maybe half a year before my EBV symptoms started.

My first question is, how long were the patients followed up? We know this from many treatments that supposedly work, where remissions only lasted for a few weeks or months. For instance, COVID-19 or Influenza vaccines might help some patients for a few weeks, as long as the immune system is triggered.

My second question is how to get this auto vaccine treatment in other countries. I'm afraid that it will be just like with any other CFS/ME treatment and that all physicians will block you because they don't think the disease is a real disease and because they don't want to take any risks prescribing a treatment that could bring them legal complications.

 

[rel8ted]

Finally got through trying to take all of this in. Looks to be very thorough study that sounds like ME/CFS symptoms are described accurately.

Is there a way to be tested and treated in the US?

 

[helen1]

I wonder what Ron Davis has found re chronic bacterial infections.
@Janet Dafoe

 

[Hip]

How do you measure LPS in the bloodstream? Do you use the (soluble) CD14 test?

LPS is just one of several bacterial toxins, so even if you have normal levels of LPS in the blood, as I understand it, it would not rule out CBIS.

 

[bensmith]

Finally got through trying to take all of this in. Looks to be very thorough study that sounds like ME/CFS symptoms are described accurately.

Is there a way to be tested and treated in the US?

I dont think so

 

[andyguitar]

Is there a way to be tested and treated in the US?

If it looks like Dr Markov is correct you can bet your bottom dollar this treatment will be made available. It's not hard to test for pathogens in urine or to make autovaccines and administer them.

 

[bensmith]

We have a member who should start treatment soon so hopefully by this winter we will know.

 

[Hip]

Note: the Dr Markov Q&A thread is here. Because of language difficulties, the idea is to keep that Q&A thread for questions and answers only, and on the Q&A thread, refrain from starting side topics or debate. This is to make it easier for Dr Markov to follow the Q&A thread, and spot our questions. The side topics and debate we can have in this thread.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Note: the Dr Markov Q&A thread is here. Because of language difficulties, the idea is to keep that Q&A thread for questions and answers only, and on the Q&A thread, refrain from starting side topics or debate. This is to make it easier for Dr Markov to follow the Q&A thread, and spot our questions. The side topics and debate we can have in this thread.

Thank you hip!

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Many of these things I imagine are downstream effects, arising as a consequence of ME/CFS, rather than being a cause of it. So if you fix the central cause of ME/CFS, the downstream effects are going to clear themselves up. Things like hypothyroidism are not directly related to ME/CFS, but can be a comorbid condition that an ME/CFS patient has.

And why do some (!) get into full remission after antiviral therapies?

 

[Hip]

And why do some (!) get into full remission after antiviral therapies?

Viral infections could well be part of the central cause of ME/CFS. I have long suspected that ME/CFS has a dual-factor etiology, involving viruses like enterovirus or EBV, but also other secondary factors which allow that viral infection to create the symptoms of ME/CFS, and/or prevent the immune system from clearing the virus.

Mold for example has often been considered one of these secondary factors which plays a role in ME/CFS. Mold releases biotoxins which have known detrimental effects on the immune system, and/or modulate immunity. In the CBIS theory of ME/CFS, it is biotoxins released by bacteria in the kidneys that are posited to play a causal role.

Good evidence for a dual factor theory comes from the historical outbreaks of ME/CFS: these involved an infectious virus, but it was always found that once the virus travelled outside the area of the outbreak, it lost most of its ability to trigger ME/CFS. In my mind, the only thing that can explain that is a dual factor theory, where some biotoxins or a similar secondary factor exists only in the area of the outbreak. So it is only within that area that you can get exposed to both the virus and the secondary factor, and in this dual factor theory, both are required to trigger ME/CFS.

Dr Markov does not seem to think ongoing viral infections play a role in ME/CFS; he thinks it is just the biotoxins coming from the kidney infection that is the cause. But it could be that both these biotoxins and a viral infection act in concert to cause ME/CFS, via something like immune priming, which was mentioned earlier.

 

[Boba]

A Dutch study discovered low T syndrome is present in 1 in 6 ME/CFS patients:

I have low t3 syndrome. May t3 values dropped after covid. I literally have the before and after on paper. Some ICU patients develop the syndrome as well.
.

 

[Learner1]

I have low t3 syndrome. May t3 values dropped after covid. I literally have the before and after on paper. Some ICU patients develop the syndrome as well.
.

I hope you are able to get it treated. The standard medical advice is to not treat what they view as sick thyroid responding to an illness, however in ME/CFS, providing support can be greatly helpful.

 

[Learner1]

I'm sure Hip didn't mean to judge you. It's meant well to inform us why our comments have been moved into the discussion post. I have my own word finding issues, and I understand why it might appear incomprehensible at times. I think the "we" was just trying to be inclusionary, not specifically referring to you. I'm just writing this to defuse this a little bit. We're all in the same boat. I'm sure you also mean well. Let's keep it calm.

Thank you for reaching out.

I definitely know we are all sick. What I mind is when out of date or incomplete information is stated as fact which could be harmful for more novice people who aren't seeing an expert doctor and who haven't read all of the latest research.