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Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
As bad as they may be, I think we need our leaders in moments like this.
Actually we needed that leadership 2 months ago, or even 1 month ago, when it could have made an enormous difference in where we find ourselves today.


Since BoJo was still in denial as recently as about 7 days ago, and congratulating himself repeatedly for shaking hands courageously with everyone from the man on the street to other foreign leaders, I'm not really sure what he has to offer can be defined as 'leadership'.

Ditto in my country, just to be clear,
 
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YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,064
Location
Second star to the right ...
Because it is a fact that younger people have died from this illness and it will happen in the future too.
To be fair, you arent quoting 'facts' ..... you're quoting what you've seen or read in the media, which has already been criticized for its inaccuracy and backtracking. I think even by you.


So, unless you personally knew every person under 20 who died from COVID, and had absolute proof that they did, indeed, die from COVID, you can't really make an absolute statement regarding those deaths.

And I know you'll fire back on this, but in an effort to reduce the stress of this unpleasant time, I won;t be respnding.

Done said my say, nothing more I can add.
 

rainbowbluebells

Senior Member
Messages
248
I won’t “fire back on it”, but I am confused at what you’re saying - as I have never once made an absolute statement about any of their deaths, so I don’t know why your post is about that.

I didn’t say all those young people in the newspaper articles (I mean the 3 that have been reported in the UK articles), all definitely died from coronavirus. I only mentioned 1 specific one (coroner said they died from coronavirus) and that I was sceptical. If there are others like it (where the coroner said something, but official accounts say something else), then yes I would be sceptical too. I’m going on what the media said, yes we don’t know the truth, but I an sceptical because it reports the coroner told the family that. I never made any firm yes or no statement on that case.

The only statement I made later was something along the lines of, I’m sure that, for some of these young people (and by that i mean young people who may die from coronavirus and have deaths recorded as such), they wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t got the coronavirus. “Some” doesn’t mean “all”.

But other than that, I was giving a general statement that younger people or those without health conditions have died. That’s based on reports from China and Italy and doctors even here in the UK (on social media etc). The doctor who I saw 2 weeks ago, for a consultation unrelated to any of this, told me in person that even though I’m young, I would be in danger of dying from this. Which is why my surgery was even cancelled. There is a report in the Guardian over a young woman who died and I do regard the guardian and the independent as more reputable due to their high accuracy rating on media bias/fact check, so it does depend on the media outlet as well.

(Edited paragraphs to break them up as too long).
 
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Pearshaped

Senior Member
Messages
580
Update Switzerland:
infected and confirmed: 13'862
deaths: 258
people on ventilators but alive: 280
Among victims are young people.
(Some of them apparently had already health issues)And a 1year old baby.
Now,I am scared too,and(complaiming alert:)all the neighbours are at home working around the house,its very very NOISY.
 

Inara

Senior Member
Messages
455
No you're not.
I think she didn't mean "I'm 100% sure they wouldn't have died without coronavirus".

I think one can state the following: If a person was tested positive with coronavirus, has an underlying condition (or develops new problems like arrhythmias or heart failure, who knows why) and then dies, it is most probably due to coronavirus AT THAT POINT OF TIME. That person could have died nonetheless - but most probably later. The probability that the person would have died AT THAT POINT OF TIME nonetheless, without corona, is non-zero, but nearly zero. It's like in quantum mechanics: The probability that both states will occurr is non-zero, but pretty pretty small - most people would say it's so small that it won't happen in tons of lifetimes. But still - it CAN happen, strictly.

As an example: Someone with hypokalemic periodic paralysis might die due to breathing problems or arrhythmias caused by coronavirus - problems that person wouldn't have had without corona. It would be wrong to say that person died of periodic paralysis - the cause was the virus. Even if that person might die later of those problems caused by sth else...
 

Inara

Senior Member
Messages
455
Maybe it was this ....

"Because it is a fact that younger people have died from this illness and it will happen in the future too."
Sorry that I keep this discussion going...But what's wrong with this statement? It is fact that young people have died due to corona and will die of coronavirus. Also, it is a fact that most people who died due to corona would still live without corona (see my post above where I blabber about probabilities). I understood that's all that @rainbowbluebells said, and I'd say that's simply correct.
I'm honestly confused by the discussion and don't get your point. I don't see something I think?
 

nyanko_the_sane

Because everyday is Caturday...
Messages
655

A great summary of everything you need to know about COVID-19 from Professor Kim of Korea University Guro Hospital. This video is subtitled in English.

8:01 Reactivation cases
8:35 How the virus infects
11:28 - 13:40 Airborne infection
15:00 - 18:45 Mask and how effective it is
27:20 How long will this last
29:11 Seasonal disease case
29:35 Vaccine
31:45 - 34:00 Drug repurposing (Chloroquine and friends)
36:07 Great advice
 
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Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/georgia-coronavirus-girl-hospitalized/index.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-uninsured-teen-dies-refused-care-mayor-says-2020-3

The first link above is re: the 12 year old girl fighting for her life in the hospital in Georgia w/COVID.

The second link is re: the 17 year old boy in Lancaster (in Los Angeles County) who died of COVID but health officials are now back-tracking in his case.

Both tested positive for COVID, this is not in dispute. The girl had no underlying health conditions and it appears (but now unclear) that the boy did not either.

In my opinion, they were both made deathly ill due to COVID. It is horribly frightening to think this could happen to children, and I have a step-daughter and niece that I would gladly take the disease in their place if it allowed them to live.

But the fact is that children can get it. The numbers in children are very small, but it is not impossible. I’m confused what the debate is about?!
 

Wally

Senior Member
Messages
1,167
Travel Quarantine for New York and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut is currently being considered. Decision may be made by Sat afternoon (3/28)

Discussion re possible travel quarantine starts at minute marker 2:30.
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
A great summary of everything you need to know about COVID-19 from Professor Kim of Korea University Guro Hospital. This video is subtitled in English.

I feel like some of the most powerful words he said, were these, in the last minute or 2 of the interview-

"This is science. You have to be humble. The moment we become arrogant, we'll lose."
 

Inara

Senior Member
Messages
455

A great summary of everything you need to know about COVID-19 from Professor Kim of Korea University Guro Hospital. This video is subtitled in English.

8:01 Reinfection cases
8:35 How the virus infects
11:28 - 13:40 Airborne infection
15:00 - 18:45 Mask and how effective it is
27:20 How long will this last
29:11 Seasonal disease case
29:35 Vaccine
31:45 - 34:00 Drug repurposing (Chloroquine and friends)
36:07 Great advice
Contrast what he's saying about masks (they are definitely effective) to what is propagated here (masks are useless)... Although I may understand that kind of misinformation in times of face mask&Co shortages...(Edit: I think medical staff are priority one!)... I still think it's dangerous and harmful.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,331
Location
Ashland, Oregon
@Wayne obviously it's better to have good leaders than bad leaders. But what I meant is that I wouldn't wish for any of our actual leaders to fall ill and possibly... worse. Well, I wouldn't wish that to anyone, but I think we need stability more than ever... I don't want to think about worse scenarios. I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Obviously I'm not advocating for dictatorship LOL

Hi @ellie84 -- I'm not sure I'm clear on what you're saying, but I think I do at least get parts of it. ;) I guess my "thing" is I've been more than appalled at the lack of good leadership, and the incredibly dire consequences that have been the result of extremely poor leadership since this pandemic first began emerging. I've learned about many instances of this the past few months, but the following article lays it all out in pretty stark detail.

The coronavirus test that wasn’t: How federal health officials misled state scientists and derailed the best chance at containment -- Brett MurphyLetitia Stein -- USA TODAY

Anyone who reads this will likely come to the same conclusion as me: This current crisis we're in right now could have been mostly avoided had those in leadership positions acted in accordance with protocols that have been developed over the past 20 years. In other words, if we had done what S. Korea, Japan, Singapore, and Taiwan did from the get go, we could have had MUCH lower infection rates, with relatively minor disruptions to the economy, such as is the case in those countries.

We were even offered assistance from S. Korea, particlularly on the testing front, which we "politely" declined. The arrogance and incompetence of so many officials should have consequences, and instead of them being supported, I strongly believe they should be fired. And that includes those that occupy the place "where the buck stops". -- But hope is not lost: :)

'A game changer': FDA authorizes Abbott Labs' portable, 5-minute coronavirus test the size of a toaster
Grace Hauck -- USA TODAY
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,957

A great summary of everything you need to know about COVID-19 from Professor Kim of Korea University Guro Hospital. This video is subtitled in English.

8:01 Reinfection cases
thank you for this video!
about "reinfection" cases, it were in fact some cases where people were discharged and 5-7 days after, they relapsed, this is not a reinfection but a reactivation of the virus.
 
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