Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[Rufous McKinney]

We might do. I become a lot more ill when I get a virus / infection. But I don’t know if that’s because the body is mounting too much of an attack, in which case we would have autoimmune type problems. Another problem ME people have is issues with breathing, breathlesness etc which I’m sure is related to the lungs in some way even if there’s no official documents about it yet.

I'd agree with that....I don't get sick very often but get much more severely ill when I do. ( compared with coworkers and husband...).

The air hunger symptom...is awful and common even tho my blood shows adequate dissolved oxygen...its not reaching someplace...so it feels like I am barely getting enough air...and my chest gets very heavy feeling, breathing is hard even tho I'm not congested...a classic ME symptom.

 

[AnnieT]

There is confusion being reported over the 21 year old girl who died here in the UK. The coroner reported coronavirus but the hospital said she came in after having a heart attack.

 

[andyguitar]

There is confusion being reported over the 21 year old girl who died here in the UK. The coroner reported coronavirus but the hospital said she came in after having a heart attack.

There is something odd about it. Been trying to get to the bottom of it. No luck yet!!!

 

[AnnieT]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...21-year-old-not-recorded-nhs-covid-19-related @andyguitar this is all I've read.

 

[Inara]

There is something odd about it. Been trying to get to the bottom of it. No luck yet!!!

It seems odd that UK doctors say that younger people who might have died of coronavirus died of sth else. But I doubt one will find the facts.

I am a bit angry about the image Germany succeeded to build: Even foreign newspapers report how consistently and greatly Germany makes corona tests. I cannot confirm that. Even if you present with classical symptoms you don't get tested. You ONLY get tested if
1) you have fever and have had contact to someone with confirmed COVID
or
2) you were in a risk area (like South Tyrol).
I cannot agree this is broad testing, but whatever...

 

[pattismith]

There is confusion being reported over the 21 year old girl who died here in the UK. The coroner reported coronavirus but the hospital said she came in after having a heart attack.

"Second, covid-19 infection has been associated with multiple direct and indirect
cardiovascular complications including acute myocardial injury, myocarditis, arrhythmias and venous
thromboembolism." (american college of cardiology)

 

[pamojja]

15 pages of this thread and 9 days later:

View attachment 36624
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...What is remarkable till now is, that all those countries with excess pneumonia deaths have it in certain regions only! (in the table only added Italy without the regions of Lombaria and Emilia Romagna as example

In Spain its the region Madrid and Catalonia. Now in the evening of the 27th Luxembourg, Belgium and Netherlands made it to the countries of higher than 2 times the average pneumonia deathrate. Just accross the region which is most hit in Germany. What is really scary to me now, if I compare all regions being affected with the following map, its almost as if one could predict were it shows next:

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I am curious about this part (nothing to do with UK policy of who receives help vs. a general question). I watched an online video presentation last night from a neurologist at George Washington University (I did not write down his name but can find it if useful). He said verbatim, "Immune suppression was NOT identified as a risk factor for severe infection in China".

I am researching this re: my own treatment (for autoimmunity) and will be doing a phone consult next week w/my doctor. There is a lot of contradictory info on-line re: whether those on immune-suppression treatments are truly at more risk for COVID. I actually do NOT know the answer but was wondering what the UK based that statement on (was it a specific piece of research with COVID or just an assumption?)-- which would certainly be a logical one!

It seems that people with pre-existing heart & lung conditions and diabetes are more susceptible to becoming gravely ill from COVID vs. those on immuno-suppressive treatments. But I am not sure WHY and I am not even sure if this is true? Do you know anything about this @rainbowbluebells since I know you are following a lot of this research in great detail? Thx in advance!

Honestly I’m not sure what the UK based their info on. The information that came out of China was, I think, those with pre existing respiratory conditions; heart conditions/ hypertension, and diabetes were more at risk of complications.

So I don’t know where the UK got their info from. I will try digging into the SAGE (scientific advisory group for the Uk) documents when i can, but I don’t remember anyone saying those documents had the justification for which medical conditions made someone vulnerable, although it might do.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@Inara there have been lots of articles recently about how Germany has such a low rate because of high testing amounts. Apparently Germany is saying they are testing 500,000 people a week. But I remember what you said about the death rate not being right because some people were being put down as other causes of death. But is the 500,000 figure right? I wonder who they are testing, if it’s still really restrictive?

 

[Gingergrrl]

It seems odd that UK doctors say that younger people who might have died of coronavirus died of sth else. But I doubt one will find the facts.

I find this very strange, too. A few days ago a 17 year old boy died of COVID19 in Los Angeles County (he was in Lancaster which is quite far north of me) and then they suddenly changed the story to say that there were other factors in addition to COVID and he might've died of something else but they couldn't disclose, blah blah blah. It seems like they are doing everything possible to downplay the deaths in younger people but there is currently a 12 year old girl in the US fighting for her life in hospital with COVID. I cannot remember which state she is in (and it might be Georgia but I am not certain).

Honestly I’m not sure what the UK based their info on. The information that came out of China was, I think, those with pre existing respiratory conditions; heart conditions/ hypertension, and diabetes were more at risk of complications.

I am not sure either but I am hearing completely conflicting info (out of the US, too, and not just the UK) re: the risk in immuno-compromised people. Usually "immuno-compromised" is tacked onto all of the lists of who is at high risk of COVID which would include someone like me from Rituximab. But this webinar I watched from a respected Neuro said that they are finding it is people with pre-existing conditions such as cardiac, lung, hypertension, and diabetes and not people who are immuno-compromised.

But then I wonder how governments are even defining "immuno-compromised"? Is it someone permanently immuno-compromised from a pre-existing condition like CVID (chronic variable immune deficiency) or would it also include people like me with autoimmune diseases who are temporarily compromised from treatments such as steroids or Rituximab (or hardcore treatments like Imuran or Cell Cept- which I am not on). Because some treatments you have no B-cells (like me) but you still have fully normal T-cells and the rest of your immune system vs. others your entire immune system has been wiped out (due to a disease itself or to a treatment).

So I don’t know where the UK got their info from. I will try digging into the SAGE (scientific advisory group for the Uk) documents when i can, but I don’t remember anyone saying those documents had the justification for which medical conditions made someone vulnerable, although it might do.

I would love to hear what you find out from SAGE! Thanks!

 

[Inara]

But is the 500,000 figure right? I wonder who they are testing, if it’s still really restrictive?

I hear this, and I'm always flabbergasted. My roommate and I wouldn't get testing (no fever, although in my case it was slightly elevated, and I never get fevers), and I heard the same about others with symptoms. There seems to be the opinion that fever is a must - which is plainly wrong. Most get a dry cough, but re. RKI only 55%. So 45% report no cough at all. And if I remember correctly, ca 40% fever - i.e. ca 60% have NO fever. So why is fever THE ONE criterium?
Also, infections behave differently in different immune systems...

Honestly, I think 500.000 a week is not so much. I can't check the number though because everybody reports this number, and I have no access to the real numbers (which would come from the labs I guess).

But what is correct is that Germany tests wider than e.g. Italy because it doesn't just test people who come to the hospital.

I think it was virologist Drosten who said they don't have enough material for the tests.

Wide testing would be what Singapore did in a restricted way, what Iceland (?) plans and what Austria did in a study - testing EVERYONE. That's what WHO recommends, too, no?

Re. death rates: At the very beginning, virologist Kekulé mentioned in "Lanz" (a TV talk show) someone with 40 who died - at that time only deaths of people over 80 were reported - then he suddenly pedalled back and said, "Oh, but this was not published, so...I cannot say". I have not heard of someone who died of a younger age in the media; the media still stick to their "only people over 80 die"-story - but the RKI says in a report the age ranges from 42 to 100 I see now. So maybe I have to partly withdraw my claim.

I know Germany for propagating a "great image" to the outside world, while I don't find that greatness here. But I'm sick, poor and let down by the state; someone who works and earns a good wage (ca. 10% of the population) and never had contact to authorities might - and does - say Germany is great.

 

[Inara]

I find this very strange, too. A few days ago a 17 year old boy died of COVID19 in Los Angeles County (he was in Lancaster which is quite far north of me) and then they suddenly changed the story to say that there were other factors in addition to COVID and he might've died of something else but they couldn't disclose, blah blah blah. It seems like they are doing everything possible to downplay the deaths in younger people but there is currently a 12 year old girl in the US fighting for her life in hospital with COVID. I cannot remember which state she is in (and it might be Georgia but I am not certain).

It's difficult not to invent conspiracy theories when you hear this. Why are they so eager to keep the narrative "only old people die"? People dying with age under 20 IS rare, but statistically it can happen.

 

[ellie84]

@Zebra as much as I do agree with you, I think we have to be careful not to fall in the trap of "complaining about complaining". People is going to be people, many will never change. I believe that the only person we can change is ourselves. I can get worked up as much as I want about the 80 years old woman that lives in the flat above mine, who still goes out every morning and every afternoon of every single day, like she always did, with no reason and possibly carrying infection to the condominium twice per day (God knows where she goes... and this is just one example!). But at the end of the day I can't change her, I can only change myself. Your suggestions are all good, we can only try to do them for ourselves and hope others will. Me myself I'm going to sign up for temporary volunteering for the Red Cross. I don't have much energy, but I'm not working and I don't have kids or anyone to take care of, so at least I have some spare energy.

@Wayne obviously it's better to have good leaders than bad leaders. But what I meant is that I wouldn't wish for any of our actual leaders to fall ill and possibly... worse. Well, I wouldn't wish that to anyone, but I think we need stability more than ever... I don't want to think about worse scenarios. I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Obviously I'm not advocating for dictatorship LOL

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@Inara

I think the reason 500,000 is taken to be a lot here is because it’s so much more than the in the UK, here we’ve been averaging about 5,000 a day so that’s 35,000 a week. So the number of tests in Germany is of course a lot more than that. Yes. it seems strange only people with fever are tested. It’s the same here, actually much stricter, you need to have fever, dry cough and respiratory distress, and be so sick with pneumonia you go to hospital to be admitted. I know people in my town with fever cough pneumonia who called an ambulance who didn’t even get to go to hospital, let alone be tested, as well as people who got very sick and couldn’t be tested in hospital either. Plus the fact our doctors and nurses aren’t tested.. which is the worst thing.

edit: yes you’re right. Widespread testing is the minimum that every country should be doing anyway! That is what the WHO says. Now if only countries would take their advice.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@Inara @Gingergrrl and others,

I am very suspect about these younger people whose families are initially told they died from coronavirus from the coroner and then the media/official info is that they died from something else? How do they know it’s not coronavirus? Coronavirus can bring on so many problems such as pneumonia, heart issues, could exacerbate underlying problems. And I’m sure in some of these cases, if the person hadnt caught coronavirus, they wouldn’t have died. Perhaps the UK doesn’t want to make a big thing of the fact that those without underlying conditions, and those who are younger, can get so sick and die. So if there are cases where there could be doubt, they can say it’s caused by something else. Honestly we will never know though as this info will all be private!

This trying to downplay the fact that younger / those without conditions , can get the virus and become very ill and die from it, seems to be happening in other countries too.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

And I’m sure in some of these cases, if the person hadnt caught coronavirus, they wouldn’t have died.

No you're not.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

No you're not.

Yes I am. Of course in some cases, at some point along the line, where people have died from coronavirus, and the coroner has said their cause of death was coronavirus, and also were then told by the media/official info that it wasn’t in fact coronavirus, the cause of death would actually have been coronavirus. I’m basing that on probability. At some point that would be the case.

Edit: is there a reason for you to be so combative in the way you wrote that? I don’t really find it very courteous, or kind, the way you spoke to me.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I’m basing that on probability.

Exactly.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Exactly.

Yes.. and somewhere therefore along the line it will happen for someone, or many someones.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@Zebra I do agree with many of the points you have made. In terms of hoarding or getting upset because they can’t get their usual foods, I think it’s just because many people from western or well developed countries haven’t ever been in that position before. And they behave in strange ways. I do feel like lots of people have become selfish too, especially in terms of not self isolating, still going out when they can (as they think it won’t happen to them, and don’t think about the fact they can pass it on to others). But at some point I tried to think it really was out of my control; the behaviour of others, even the behaviour Of the politicians does make me really angry as the are responsible for policies to save the lives of people and have often been so irresponsible / putting the market or economy first / downplaying risks. It’s really hard not to be angry and upset. I tried to do my best with talking to my friends but other than that, not sure what I could do.