Chinese skullcap seems to correct PEM/the energy problem in ME

msf

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Quick update:

I currently take both the Chinese skullcap and the astralagus root, along with peony root. Combining these seems to mean that I really have to do something stupid to have any significant PEM: for instance I drank fairly heavily recently and ate a lot of FODMAPs after doing strenous exercise, and I was out of action for a day at most, when before it might have taken a week for my gut and general health to recover. The astralagus root in particular seems to help with my gut symptoms a lot.

So, to emphasize the point, skullcap alone or with the other two roots has made me functionally normal again. Since this doesn't seem to be enough to get others to try this wonder treatment, I will appeal to their vanity instead: it has allowed me to get in the best shape I have been in my life. This should underline how effective skullcap is, since I define being in good shape for myself as having little body fat and a generous amount of muscle mass. I know from before I found skullcap how hard it is to achieve this combination when you have ME: two years ago I weighed 90 kg, with a BMI of 28; now I weigh 77 kg, with a BMI of 23, and I currently have more muscle mass than I did two years ago. So, if you have any new year's resolutions based around getting in shape, then I would strongly advise trying Chinese skullcap.
 

bensmith

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Preferred seller? Sorry if listed. Didnt see it scrolling around.

they have this at the grocer i think. Is that ok? In pills.
 
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msf

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Preferred seller? Sorry if listed. Didnt see it scrolling around.

they have this at the grocer i think. Is that ok? In pills.
I take it in root form, infused in hot water. I tried pills before without an obvious effect. I would advise getting the root either online from a reputable buyer, or in a reputable Chinese medicine store (the reputation of the latter may be harder to establish). The Chinese characters for Chinese skullcap are 黄芩, or if they know about such things, 条芩. The latter is a type of skullcap that I have found to be more effective than other kinds (noted in the thread).
 

gregh286

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Hi msf
Thats great its still doing the biz
How much astragalus do you take.
I think this would be uptaken more if we get quantifiable amount of the root by pill. I think the greyness of infusing root.in tea is prohibiting people from trying it out. Like how much root to use....root quality....etc.

Fair play to you on your physical achievements. :)
 
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I've had the exact same reaction to astragalus. It lasted awhile before it stopped. However the issue now is that no matter what I do or take everything over stimulates me. Which causes, anxiety mood swings and personality changes. But for the first 2 years of being sick I almost functioned normally on Siberian ginseng. It wasn't a cure though but it worked well. Until the mood swings and aggression set in and then it just wasn't worthit anymore.

We really do need a cure as these things sadly don't tend to work long term. Although for all I know I owe my current health to ginseng. I have no way to really know for sure. I would take it again but last time I took it I had a very nasty outbreak of ebv. Worst I've ever had. So you can do too much I think even with these herbs.

Glad it works for you.
 

msf

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Hi msf
Thats great its still doing the biz
How much astragalus do you take.
I think this would be uptaken more if we get quantifiable amount of the root by pill. I think the greyness of infusing root.in tea is prohibiting people from trying it out. Like how much root to use....root quality....etc.

Fair play to you on your physical achievements. :)
Tjhanks. I take 2-3 grams 2-3 times a day. I understand that people aren't used to taking things in their natural form, but taking it in pill form can also obscure the type of skullcap or whatever that is being taken, as you can't even examine it yourself.
 

msf

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I've had the exact same reaction to astragalus. It lasted awhile before it stopped. However the issue now is that no matter what I do or take everything over stimulates me. Which causes, anxiety mood swings and personality changes. But for the first 2 years of being sick I almost functioned normally on Siberian ginseng. It wasn't a cure though but it worked well. Until the mood swings and aggression set in and then it just wasn't worthit anymore.

We really do need a cure as these things sadly don't tend to work long term. Although for all I know I owe my current health to ginseng. I have no way to really know for sure. I would take it again but last time I took it I had a very nasty outbreak of ebv. Worst I've ever had. So you can do too much I think even with these herbs.

Glad it works for you.
Skullcap has already worked for about 8 months, but I was also concerned that it might lose its effectiveness or that I would have to stop taking it due to toxicity, so I am glad that I found that astralagus works as well, if slightly less effectively. I think I have a fairly good idea of how skullcap works in my case, so it seems unlikely to me that it would suddenly lose effectiveness after several months, unless there is some sort of slow-reacting mechanism in ME that works to keep the body in a low metabolic state - it would be odd if it took this long to take effect though, even if one exists, especially given how quickly the body lapses into that low metabolic state in the first place.
 

hmnr asg

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I just want to share my two cents:
After reading this thread I tried skullcap, both in pill form and as roots that I bought from a reputable vendor and brewed according to the instructions I gathered from this thread.
Results: Nothing. Nada. No benefit at all, not even a tiny bit. Just the awful taste.

Of course everyone is different but just wanted to share my experience.
 

msf

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Yes and I have been officially diagnosed by the stanford cfs clinic. I have had cfs for 10 years now, I have PEM and all the classic symptoms.

So you exerted yourself and the PEM was just as bad as usual? What were your gut symptoms (if any) like that day? I have found that skullcap does not have the same effect if the gut it already messed up. Also, it was Chinese skullcap you tried, right?

I have also been diagnosed by an ME doctor and researcher, and my father had ME too, and using skullcap in ME is consistent with both that doctors research and with the recent study I quoted earlier in this thread on Complex V impairment, so I think it is still worth trying for others with PEM. Sorry to hear that it did not help you anyway,
 

msf

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I take it in the form that is most available in Chinese medicine stores, that is cross-sections of the root, which should not be what they call rotten in the middle (check the posts from further back for more information). I steep it in water that has just been boiled for at least 15 min.
 

msf

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Just to make sure people understand how effective skullcap is in my case (not to make people feel bad but rather to get more people to try it): I now exercise at least 4 times a week, including heavy weights (my own bodyweight squats and deadlifts), and also cardio (16-20 kg kettlebell workouts, 10-15 min 10km/h runs with and without significant gradient, and boxing classes). I can do all this with minor sleep disruption (waking perhaps once and falling asleep immediately afterward, or not waking up early at all) and PEM (better described as DOMS, since it is normal to feel sore after say a boxing class), even with several drinks as of a weekend (this latter part seems to no longer be much of a limiting factor since I added the astralagus root and peony root to the skullcap).

Before taking, when my preworkout regime consisted solely of ALA and BCAA (which I still take), and sometimes sodium bicarbonate (which I no longer need because lactate buildup is no longer a major limiting factor), a good week would have been going to the gym twice with rests between lighter weight reps. If I then tried to do any significant cardio I would most likely induce PEM, at least if I did not take the sodium bicarbonate and pace myself very carefully. If I did try cardio, or if I tried to exercise within say 48 hours of drinking, I would spend a sizeable portion of the week with PEM, whereas now I can't really tell whether I have PEM or if its just a normal hangover, because the only time I feel ill is the day or two after drinking a lot.
 

bensmith

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Anybody else found success? I should be getting mind i about a week, will report back.

also, my pem is much worse mentally so might not work as well.
 
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stefanosstef

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Just to make sure people understand how effective skullcap is in my case (not to make people feel bad but rather to get more people to try it): I now exercise at least 4 times a week, including heavy weights (my own bodyweight squats and deadlifts), and also cardio (16-20 kg kettlebell workouts, 10-15 min 10km/h runs with and without significant gradient, and boxing classes). I can do all this with minor sleep disruption (waking perhaps once and falling asleep immediately afterward, or not waking up early at all) and PEM (better described as DOMS, since it is normal to feel sore after say a boxing class), even with several drinks as of a weekend (this latter part seems to no longer be much of a limiting factor since I added the astralagus root and peony root to the skullcap).

Before taking, when my preworkout regime consisted solely of ALA and BCAA (which I still take), and sometimes sodium bicarbonate (which I no longer need because lactate buildup is no longer a major limiting factor), a good week would have been going to the gym twice with rests between lighter weight reps. If I then tried to do any significant cardio I would most likely induce PEM, at least if I did not take the sodium bicarbonate and pace myself very carefully. If I did try cardio, or if I tried to exercise within say 48 hours of drinking, I would spend a sizeable portion of the week with PEM, whereas now I can't really tell whether I have PEM or if its just a normal hangover, because the only time I feel ill is the day or two after drinking a lot.
Those are incredible results.I will also attempt to restart my calisthenics routine, slowly, and I will add this herb to my supps.
 
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The thing is I am having the gains your having using a totally different therapy which is called an Airnergy device, it's basically excited oxygen that's decayed from singlet oxygen. I had a thread separately about it. But my brain fog has gone, my memory has improved. Exertional tolerance is much better. I can exert myself now a lot more than I could before without crashing, I'm able to hoover and clean without crashing too. I don't get breathless walking up and down the stairs. I'm not saying skullcap doesn't work by the way, just saying that while these things essentially stopped working for me, or caused me to have an unstable post PEM recovery (less PEM but still there over several days in a reduced form) the Airnergy has got rid of it completely.

It's great the skullcap works for you though, may it long continue! =)

I am not at the stage where I can exercise yet but I think another month or two and I might well be. We will see.
 

gregh286

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Hi @msf
Love Reading your updates
Please don't stop.
I would love some extra cardio power. I'm still mild but I don't think I could match you in a gym. Running is something else.
Are you saying the astragalus lowers your alcohol next day symptoms? You notice if you drink and miss astragalus.?
Your skullcap doses seems to be x10 over the bottle.recommended. think that's why none of us are reaching you. Just not getting the dose high enough

Great work 💪
 

gregh286

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I take it in the form that is most available in Chinese medicine stores, that is cross-sections of the root, which should not be what they call rotten in the middle (check the posts from further back for more information). I steep it in water that has just been boiled for at least 15 min.
Would suggest an immune modulating effect?
Astragulus more so.
 

msf

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The thing is I am having the gains your having using a totally different therapy which is called an Airnergy device, it's basically excited oxygen that's decayed from singlet oxygen. I had a thread separately about it. But my brain fog has gone, my memory has improved. Exertional tolerance is much better. I can exert myself now a lot more than I could before without crashing, I'm able to hoover and clean without crashing too. I don't get breathless walking up and down the stairs. I'm not saying skullcap doesn't work by the way, just saying that while these things essentially stopped working for me, or caused me to have an unstable post PEM recovery (less PEM but still there over several days in a reduced form) the Airnergy has got rid of it completely.

It's great the skullcap works for you though, may it long continue! =)

I am not at the stage where I can exercise yet but I think another month or two and I might well be. We will see.
From what you say, your ME is more severe than mine was, at least in terms of exercise, so it may well be that skullcap alone is not enough to overcome that. I don't really have any PEM now either, even after doing strenous exercise, and that is down to skullcap in my case. Btw, you were taking Chinese skullcap, weren't you?