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Gestalt: some questions/comments on this thread -- you mentioned seeing somewhere that "candida produces thiamine", but I worry that what the study means is that yeast produces enough thiamine for its own use, not that it spits out much extra. And that would be important (if I'm right about that), because people with candida would be at risk for thiamine deficiency, not thiamine overload. My reasoning is because candida produces acetylaldehyde, which is a toxin our bodies must detox using thiamine; thus the end result is that candida would cause us to be deficient in thiamine, even if the candida cells are making some thiamine on their own.
That doesn't explain your reaction to thiamine though, but I thought I'd bring this up as something to think about. I suffer candida problems, have for years, and am about to trial high dose thiamine, because I have some symptoms and history that I think may point to thiamine deficiency. If I get worse, maybe I do have thiamine overload instead, but we'll see.
There's a graph on this link about how acetaldehyde is detoxified: (granted it's a commercial site, but I've seen this graph on noncommercial sites in the past, so I hope it is accurate) http://www.vrp.com/digestive-health/a-health-destroying-toxin-we-cant-avoid-and-must-detoxify.
You mentioned a symptom that may be due to yeast, sudden overheating of the body -- I get that too. Have been chipping away at the candida problem for years, figuring out some things that do help me, but I still cannot indulge in refined carbs (not even white rice or potatoes if I don't have enough fat with them) without symptoms flaring up. Anyway, many candida forums don't talk about the sudden heat wave symptom, so I thought I'd mention to you that some other folks do get that, and some of us do think it's due to the yeast.
Just one more comment, keep track of things if you try beta glucan. I've read too many stories of it making things worse for people with candida. Not sure if that was die off for them or in fact, aggravation of their yeast overgrowth. I have not tried that supplement.
...Anecdotally my gf who had a fungal issue had a NutraEval done and her B1 levels were fine despite most likely having candida.
I'll be curious to see what happens for you trying the high dose B1. However if you are taking it along side NAC, moly, mag etc, you won't know which one is the one that's helping or if its a combination, ...
You say Candida use Thiamine....do you have a reference? ...
@Ripley, when you said you used the resistant starch at the stage of your recovery where you were ready to try repopulating your gut with good bacteria, do you mean that by that stage you had done some anti-candida products? Or reduced the candida symptoms sufficiently with the Jaminet diet to feel ready to attempt the good bacteria repopulation?
This means I can reduce my carb intake and further "stave out" bacterial and fungal overgrowth's.
I am also managing a SIBO overgrowth which goes crazy with FODMAPs or resistant starch so I'm a little in no mans land with that one.
Chris Kresser said:Chris Kresser: ...I had a lot of patients coming to me who had been on the GAPS diet. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that, Jeff.
Jeff Leach: Yeah, I’m very familiar with it.
Chris Kresser: Yeah, and they had done the GAPS intro, which for those of you who aren’t familiar with it, it’s essentially just meat and broth for a period of time, and it can be tremendously effective and therapeutic for people who are dealing with gut pathogens and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and one of the reasons is that it literally starves the bacteria because they have nothing to eat or very little to eat. But what I started to see is that people who stayed on that kind of protocol for a long period of time, they would improve and feel better, and then after a while they’d start to feel worse and worse and worse. And I began to suspect that part of the reason that they were feeling worse is that the thing that they did, which was therapeutic initially, i.e. starving their gut bacteria because they had a lot of bad bacteria, then actually became harmful over time because they weren’t only starving their bad bacteria, they were also starving their good bacteria. That’s when I started to advocate for GAPS being looked at as a more temporary therapeutic approach, and in fairness, even the creator of it, Natasha, has talked about it that way for the most part. But I saw a lot of issues with people who were staying with that really extreme early intro approach and started to recommend that people add some more starchy tubers and other starchy types of plants and resistant starch into their diet as they improved in function so that they could preserve their good gut bacteria without completely decimating it.
Chris Kresser said:I’ve found that starting with a very low dose of prebiotics or resistant starch and building up slowly over time helps with SIBO over the long-term, even in those with FODMAP intolerance. It seems counterintuitive, and perhaps it is, but as I mentioned on the show the key to healing the gut ultimately is restoring a normal microbiota… and that’s hard to do without these fermentable fibers.
I was able to get over the overwhelming majority of my candida symptoms using Jaminet's Perfect Health Diet (which gave you the clues about Candida being fueled by the ketones). Jaminet figured this all out because he suffered from Candida and overcame it by increasing his carb consumption after being on a very low carb diet. In a podcast on ChrisKresser.com, Jaminet said that on a very low carb diet, Candida takes a few months to adapt to using ketones as its main energy source. In the meantime, the diminished immunity and the transition to using ketones as fuel causes the traditional low/no-carb anti-candida diet to fail over the long term.
Jaminet also recommends resistant starch — which is a major component of the Perfect Health Diet diet (found in those "safe starches" in small/moderate quantities). Resistant Starch makes the good bacteria in your stomach bloom, which in turn overpowers the pathogens. Resistant Starch also has the ability to sweep away pathogens that latch onto it and transport them quickly to the colon where it is dealt with by the good bloom that feeds on resistant starch. I have yet to find evidence that Candida are fueled by resistant starch, but if they are I don't think they metabolize it as fast as ketones or pure starch.
I had tremendous success treating Candida with Jaminet's Perfect Health Diet and supplemental resistant starch as described in this thread. It brought my immune system back online in full force. The only symptom I have left is a little dandruff when I eat sugar.
Your milage may vary, and I would only attempt to use resistant starch once you are at the stage of your recovery where you are trying to repopulate your gut with good bacteria. Good luck!
My theory/speculation is that Candida had tunneled directly into my blood supply and were actively feeding of glucose in the blood stealing it from other parts of my body that needed it. Including continually depleting muscle and liver glycogen reserves. I swear I can feel my blood sugar crash and If I don't carb feed feel my body go into ketosis.
Reading through the studies done on RS I see a lot about how it stabilizes glucose and insulin, however by what actual mechanism does it do this?
Is it because it's boosting bifido populations which kill candida, which in turn stops them from leeching glucose from the blood? Or is it another mechanism?
Another thing I found interesting was how RS lowers ammonia in that one study. Ammonia is a huge problem for me, and I always take ample yucca to bind it. It's a potent excitotoxin which had a significant negative effect on my health. Again I am wondering about the mechanism by which RS reduces ammonia. Is it because it kills the candida which produce it? Or is influencing some other factor?
One question I had was how does "Resistant starch number 2" compare to 1, 3 or 4 In terms of it's effects on bifido populations?
Grace/Dr. BG said:The fertilizer for microbes is inulin, FOS/GOS, fodmaps, NSP and resistant starch, no? RS is the bionic fertilizer!
Another thing I am wondering about is if RS has the ability to flush out candida out of the large AND small intestine.
The fact that cholera will latch on to RS and get flushed out of the body makes me think perhaps Candida may as well.