Candida & Biofilms - Theory & Protocol

[nsdn]

Klinghart, MyHill...

 

[Fortitude]

Try Cistus Incanus for biofilm.

Thanks so much for the info!!

 

[Mick]

Interestingly Wikipedia says that the company's explanation on how it supposedly works doesn't even hold water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candex#Way_of_function

I don't know much about it, but it sounds like the company doesn't even really know what it's dealing with.

The wikipedia entry is a joke and whoever wrote it seriously has it in for candex and takes serious liberties with the "science". If you read it closely you can see it's almost entirely speculation. In one sentence it talks about candida and in the next about yeast in general leading you to erroneous conclusions. It takes the logic that since no peer-reviewed science exists therefore it does not work....right. Since those need to exist in order for something to work!? Look it up on iherb or amazon, the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming no matter what the "science" says. Personally I haven't taken anything that has given me such dramatic improvement in such a short period of time. And I have tried hundreds of supplements. Something about it works, incredibly well.

I'm sure it works. I'm just saying that the advertised mechanism sounds unsubstantiated. For all we know, it works with a different mechanism than what they are telling people. At least with RS we have a few decades of research telling us how it works. If you are going to compare the two, we have more clues about RS to work from.

It's not a criticism. Most of the hypotheses for formulas for dealing pathogens were created before anybody knew about the intricate role of the microbiota.

As you may see, this discussion took place in 2014 (page 4 of this thread). The wikipedia article that was mentioned above exists today, claiming that it's impossible for Candex to work because cellulase enzymes will not attack Candida.

So, do we know today why Candex is effective? It's been 5 years... I can't find the answer which would address doubts and concerns raised in the wikipedia article. Perhaps the answer could improve the way Candex works for me...

Until I found the whole set of supplements that work for me, I wasn't even so sure that Candex is working. Now I know that it is. But maybe it attacks bad bacteria instead of fungi? So the answer to these question might be crucial.

 

[Wayne]

I can't find the answer which would address doubts and concerns raised in the wikipedia article.

@Mick -- Just a suggestion: Do not rely on Wikipedia for reliable information. It's a pawn of a number of mainstream political and financial forces, and often gives very skewed reviews of various subjects. I recently became aware of their critique of Chiropractic, which they refer to as pseudoscience, among other negative things. Hard to believe they're still spewing out this kind of stuff in 2019. Just about anything that touches on being "alternative" (like the concept of candida overgrowth) is likely to get a scathing review.

 

[MAF14]

Maybe I missed it but what is the recommended course for Candex? Taken indefinitely?

 

[Mick]

Maybe I missed it but what is the recommended course for Candex? Taken indefinitely?

That's a good question... and asked kind of in a timely manner for me... because I have to buy Candex or otherwise my discount will be gone in 2 days... so now it's not only a matter of getting better but also saving money... and that's why it gets serious .

All I can say that when I tried Candex for the first time (I took only 40 capsules) - it helped. But not as much as it helps me now - in a combination with other things that I take (esp. Culturelle bacteria). I ran out of it and stopped taking it for half a year. I got worse but then in the meantime I started taking Culturelle so it was not that obvious that I was getting worse. But recently (ca. 2 weeks ago) my gut got so much worse that I didn't know what to do, so Candex came to my mind. And it helped the gut issues right away. I also started taking MCT oil - good for brain, muscles, gut and absorption of other supplements.

So I guess it all depends how advanced your problem is. And what other things you do to solve it (like sugar/carb-free diet, probiotics, MCT oil). If your gut heals completely and your immune system is ready to suppress candida, then you may try not to take Candex for some time. If you start feeling worse then you may restart Candex right away.

On the bottle (I think?) they write that one capsule has to be taken indefinitely. I think I might go with that at least when I buy this new bottle (buy actually just to use my discount but what can you do).

 

[Mick]

@Mick -- Just a suggestion: Do not rely on Wikipedia for reliable information. It's a pawn of a number of mainstream political and financial forces, and often gives very skewed reviews of various subjects. I recently became aware of their critique of Chiropractic, which they refer to as pseudoscience, among other negative things. Hard to believe they're still spewing out this kind of stuff in 2019. Just about anything that touches on being "alternative" (like the concept of candida overgrowth) is likely to get a scathing review.

I don't rely on Wikipedia completely, don't worry. That's why I ask about Candex mechanism of action here - because what they describe there is quite ridiculous. But it might be even true - that Candex does not work in the way that they describe. So, how does it work?

 

[MAF14]

That's a good question... and asked kind of in a timely manner for me... because I have to buy Candex or otherwise my discount will be gone in 2 days... so now it's not only a matter of getting better but also saving money... and that's why it gets serious .

All I can say that when I tried Candex for the first time (I took only 40 capsules) - it helped. But not as much as it helps me now - in a combination with other things that I take (esp. Culturelle bacteria). I ran out of it and stopped taking it for half a year. I got worse but then in the meantime I started taking Culturelle so it was not that obvious that I was getting worse. But recently (ca. 2 weeks ago) my gut got so much worse that I didn't know what to do, so Candex came to my mind. And it helped the gut issues right away. I also started taking MCT oil - good for brain, muscles, gut and absorption of other supplements.

So I guess it all depends how advanced your problem is. And what other things you do to solve it (like sugar/carb-free diet, probiotics, MCT oil). If your gut heals completely and your immune system is ready to suppress candida, then you may try not to take Candex for some time. If you start feeling worse then you may restart Candex right away.

On the bottle (I think?) they write that one capsule has to be taken indefinitely. I think I might go with that at least when I buy this new bottle (buy actually just to use my discount but what can you do).

Appreciate the detail.

Which Culterelle product do you take specifically? Amazon link?

And how do you take it? With Candex? Or does it need to be taken away from Candex?

 

[Mick]

Appreciate the detail.

Which Culterelle product do you take specifically? Amazon link?

And how do you take it? With Candex? Or does it need to be taken away from Candex?

I specifically take this one (without inulin):
iherb.com/pr/Culturelle-Health-Wellness-Probiotic-30-Vegetarian-Capsules/7797

The details are most important here (as well as anywhere else). They often decide whether something is working or making you way worse. I experienced that many times. I lost many years of my life searching for the details that I missed. It's possible that the damages caused by these details are irreversible. Imagine someone taking Culturelle with inulin who is allergic to chicory, ie. this version:

iherb.com/pr/Culturelle-Digestive-Health-Daily-Probiotic-30-Once-Daily-Vegetarian-Capsules/56049

... and cursing it to hell then taking the version without inulin and swearing by it... This specifically didn't happen to me but I know people who experienced this problem with Culturelle.

Unfortunately, something else like that has just happened to me (an allergy caused by a component that I didn't notice before) so I am barely alive now, inflamed, etc.

I take Culturelle away from Candex - as it is said that it also may digest bacteria.
But I developed also a detailed guide how to take Culturelle:
- start with 1/4 of the capsule (you may open it, there's no problem) and take it for some time. Possibly even every other day. Gradually increase the dose. I arrived at a dose of 1/2 of capsule every other day, or even less frequently. 1/2 of a capsule on 2 consecutive days and I end up with gut inflammation (joint inflammation follows).
It's no problem that you take a smaller dose - every capsule contains 15 billion of CFUs - so it's a lot and many probiotics didn't have that much a few years ago. On the other hand, natural probiotics contain much much more, so it all depends how sensitive you are to ingested bacteria (and the fight betweend the new bacteria and old bacteria and your immune system). I'm incredibly sensitive but if you weren't also sensitive we probably wouldn't have this conversation (Candida will make you more sensitive). So, statistically, you will be better off starting with a small dose.
- take Culturelle with the first bite of your meal. This will allow a fast passage of bacteria to your gut through the stomach, relatively unharmed by acid.
- beware of foods that are easily digested by bacteria when taking Culturelle - even simple carbs can serve as a food for them - not only such sugars as inulin. This will end up in local overgrowth and a lot of trouble.

Actually, this quide pertains to any and all probiotics...

 

[MAF14]

I specifically take this one (without inulin):
iherb.com/pr/Culturelle-Health-Wellness-Probiotic-30-Vegetarian-Capsules/7797

The details are most important here (as well as anywhere else). They often decide whether something is working or making you way worse. I experienced that many times. I lost many years of my life searching for the details that I missed. It's possible that the damages caused by these details are irreversible. Imagine someone taking Culturelle with inulin who is allergic to chicory, ie. this version:

iherb.com/pr/Culturelle-Digestive-Health-Daily-Probiotic-30-Once-Daily-Vegetarian-Capsules/56049

... and cursing it to hell then taking the version without inulin and swearing by it... This specifically didn't happen to me but I know people who experienced this problem with Culturelle.

Unfortunately, something else like that has just happened to me (an allergy caused by a component that I didn't notice before) so I am barely alive now, inflamed, etc.

I take Culturelle away from Candex - as it is said that it also may digest bacteria.
But I developed also a detailed guide how to take Culturelle:
- start with 1/4 of the capsule (you may open it, there's no problem) and take it for some time. Possibly even every other day. Gradually increase the dose. I arrived at a dose of 1/2 of capsule every other day, or even less frequently. 1/2 of a capsule on 2 consecutive days and I end up with gut inflammation (joint inflammation follows).
It's no problem that you take a smaller dose - every capsule contains 15 billion of CFUs - so it's a lot and many probiotics didn't have that much a few years ago. On the other hand, natural probiotics contain much much more, so it all depends how sensitive you are to ingested bacteria (and the fight betweend the new bacteria and old bacteria and your immune system). I'm incredibly sensitive but if you weren't also sensitive we probably wouldn't have this conversation (Candida will make you more sensitive). So, statistically, you will be better off starting with a small dose.
- take Culturelle with the first bite of your meal. This will allow a fast passage of bacteria to your gut through the stomach, relatively unharmed by acid.
- beware of foods that are easily digested by bacteria when taking Culturelle - even simple carbs can serve as a food for them - not only such sugars as inulin. This will end up in local overgrowth and a lot of trouble.

Actually, this quide pertains to any and all probiotics...

Hmm. I was never tested but assumed I had Candida overgrowth due to oral thrush, brain fog, fatigue and some digestive issues (itchy... ending) but some of those can be due to my sleep apnea.

I just finished taking a bottle of Candex - 3 capsules per day empty stomach. I didnt notice much of anything really. No decrease in oral thrush like when I took fluconazole. No GI distress etc.

I've taken the Culturelle probiotics the last two days as well. I always start high but two capsules empty stomach with just water two days in a row and no negative reactions.

I'm starting to think IF Candida actually is an issue it seems flucanozole is the only thing that seems to help.

 

[Mick]

@MAF14
Hmmm, I also still don't know what to make of my gut problem. After some time you get many so means in your arsenal that you can react whenever something unexpected happens. So now Candex stopped working for me (after a month or more?). This happened before. This time I also got stomach aches and gas. So I started taking simeticone. This gas would also mean that I have sibo. But I was tested for sibo (but only the hydrogen test, the methane test is not available here - besides - who knows if they perform this test correctly here - the problem is that I was a few months after an antibiotic (and nobody even asked my about that - they only wanted money) - maybe the bacteria were somehow inhibited? Still, I felt the gas building). Normally they should also perform a gut obstruction test first (x-rays with contrast). But it's too much for a normal doctor (paid out of the pocket), ie. this requires going to a hospital so it's not that easy to arrange and costs a lot. The result is that I lost 5 years of life due to gut issues alone and now that I know what to do (ie. what test should actually be performed) I actually get some improvement (because I also know what to take even if I don't do any testing - there are a few helpful supplements out there). Of course I wouldn't overestimate my knowledge. I may get much worse like tomorrow and even not know why.
BTW. Simeticone itself may kill bacteria (I found a paper confirming that) so who knows how it works in my case. Then of course I lost another 10 years to other issues but it's all interconnected. Right now my worst concern is that my muscles are going into PEM like hell and I really don't know what to do now though I always managed to figure it out. My main suspect this year is the weather - it's crazy rains, cold, etc.

 

[Chromium]

I've read through this entire thread, and taken a lot in. I've adjusted my approach accordingly, but I have some questions:

1. My current plan is to simply cut out as much unhealthy sugar and such as possible, while also taking a lot of prebiotic foods and probiotics, namely filmjolk (as it survives the stomach acids better than capsules) and s.boulardii. I am very underweight because of my condition, so the candida diet is even more clearly a poor approach after reading this thread. What I am thinking though, is if occasionally launching an attack on the candida, maybe once a week with coconut oil, could help? This way the candida is relaxed and complacent most of the time before suddenly getting hit with no time to adapt, and possibly won't become resistant to it? I guess I am just thinking it could help "wash out" the candida a bit at a time.

2. Wondering how my symptoms compare to other people - I have an intestinal candida albicans overgrowth, as shown by a full microbiome stool analysis. My symptoms are mainly daily diarrhea (2-3 times daily, unformed but not watery) which often accompanies headache, nausea, breathlessness, racing heart - but when my gut isn't gurgling or doing anything, I feel completely fine. Also wondered if anyone else has had a similar test, and how their results for candida compare:

3. Does candida only form a biofilm when it is starved/under attack, or will it do this regardless?

Thanks for reading, I am gaining a lot more confidence in my diet plan after taking in all the information in this thread.

 

[max_yazhbin]

Protocol
The following protocol is a synthesis of Dr. Ettinger’s Biofilm Protocol for Lyme and Gut Pathogens and Dr.Usman's.
Firstly I started a Ketogenic diet (zero carbs) three days ago. I plan on being on it for the next 8 weeks for that appears to be the time necessary to do a reset on the gut based off Dr.Ettingers experience. For really good info on the biochemistry and logistics of the diet Lyle McDonald's book "The Ketogenic Diet" has been an invaluable resource. In addition I am taking Pancreatic enzymes with every meal which incidentally may help a tiny bit with candida breakdown.

Now I am hoping by removing the preferred fuel source of the yeast that I can reduce if not eliminate most of the herx symptoms. If not I should be able to slow their growth down dramatically so I have no relapse. There are theories floating around that you can "starve" Candida to death but this is simply not true because Candida can eat nearly everything. Hence also why the diet is not enough on it's own.
The protocol is based off the 3 step formula devised by Dr.Usman. 1. Detach Matrix 2. Target Microbes 3.Cleanup
I am doing this twice a day once early in the morning and before bedtime.
Morning & Nightime

• 1x Interfase + one of (Candex, Nattokinase, Syntol, Serratiopeptidase) on daily rotation
• 1x Zeolite for instant metals/mineral cleanup

30 minutes later

• One of (Oregeno oil, Grapefruit Seed Extract, SF722) on daily rotation
• Monolaurin

1 hour later

• 1 gram of D-Mannose
• NAC
• Glutamine -2g
• Vitamin C
• Apple Pectin
• Modiflan
• Yucca

Mid-day

• 1 x Lactoferrin
• 4 x BOD
• 2 x Random Probiotics

In regards to the Candida & biofilm enzymes, I will be starting at 1/4 capsule 2x a day or less, and then slowly ramping up over several days/weeks till full dose to avoid herx reactions.
2-4 Weeks Later - The Nuke

Once I'm back to full dose on the enzymes, and established there for a week I will implement the second phase which occurs concurrently with the above. This involves doing the Lufenuron protocol and a day after stacking it with 1 or 2-dose Diflucan. This is an extreme measure however I am also going after a long standing fungal infection of my skin of Tinea Versicilor which cover my torso and arms in addition to the Candida.

Other Notes:
I am taking numerous other supporting supplements such as yasko's SHMT RNA and spray.

One thing I noticed reading through many posts on this forum and others is that people will start with a candida enzyme get a herx reaction, stop taking it and then never look back and then go after things completely un-candida related. Or they decide the diet is to difficult for them and give up. On the first point this really surprises me, if you are getting a herx reaction, then does this not mean the problem is even more important and needs to be addressed!?

Some people seem to think they "can't tolerate it" or that maybe they have an "allergy" to the enzyme. These seem like poor rationalization excuses. I am wondering for those who got herx reactions, if they had just cut back on the dose to 1/4 capsule or even less, and then worked up slowly maybe they would have fared better? Might they have solved their issues had they just been a bit more cautious, thorough and diligent?

If ammonia is the problem then dan kalish recommends arginine, I peed too much especially at night and I take 5 grams l-arginine alphaketoglutarate and then I pee a bunch for a few hours and then I don't pee at night.

There are herbal treatments for candida that worked for me for a little while which includes various berberines such as oregon grape root or goldenseal although with such berberines a contraindication is presently being on beta-blockers. I have never been on beta-blockers and thus didn't face that problem. Another herbal treatment that I tried was usnea, it is also good for UTI's I hear, which I didn't have. If you did want to try these treatments, take with a specialist such as a naturopath, the function medicine MD's don't know much about these topics. Also, don't get the tinctures, they could have been sitting on the shelf for years or watered down. I get the actual plant and either make a tea out of them in the case of berberines or powder the usnea and put it in capsules. I found tinctures didn't work well for me compared to these other methods.

 

[acrosstheveil]

I remember a time when I was supplementing with Lactobacillus acidophilus nightly and had great improvement in terms of well being especially at night. I think this may have been why; the acidic/lactic acid connection controlling the candida form. I think this may be perhaps the critical factor in controlling candida.


Actually candex helped me on those measures as well except vivid dreams. I think the vivid dreams may come from increased serotonin production which converts into DMT like compounds at an increased rate. DMT and it's analogue tryptamines are the most powerful class of hallucinogenics known to mankind.

I was trying to figure out which specific bacteria species RS feeds that produces/and or influences serotonin production. Anyone know?

b. infantis is a big serotonin strain

 

[physicsstudent13]

don't probiotics cause infections? what could be the benefit from probiotics?

 

[Violeta]

@Gestalt was good, wish he was still here.