Buddhism & CFS

[fresh_eyes]

Lug-bhug could go big.

Don't you mean...go VIRAL???

 

[fresh_eyes]

Lug-bhug could go big.

Don't you mean...go VIRAL???

 

[starryeyes]

I just started listening to one of the Dharma Talks as I'm winding down and getting ready to settle into sleep and had to share something that the speaker said, "The next Buddha will be the Sangha," meaning, the next Buddha will be the Community. Indeed! I had to run back here and share that with you all, it's so true.

Koan, it's wonderful to hear your stories of being India. I hope you'll tell us more.

 

[starryeyes]

I just started listening to one of the Dharma Talks as I'm winding down and getting ready to settle into sleep and had to share something that the speaker said, "The next Buddha will be the Sangha," meaning, the next Buddha will be the Community. Indeed! I had to run back here and share that with you all, it's so true.

Koan, it's wonderful to hear your stories of being India. I hope you'll tell us more.

 

[MEKoan]

"The next Buddha will be the Sangha," meaning, the next Buddha will be the Community. Indeed! I had to run back here and share that with you all, it's so true.

Wow, Teej, wow.

I feel a rising up of intense good feeling.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...

for this and that and the other thing, too!

What amazing people there be here! I hope FreshEyes tells us about going to Nepal! I hope Zoe brings more Roz Chast and Roz Chastiness! I hope Gracenote keeps bringing her gentle and wise perspective to everything! I hope KC22 shares something about Ekhart Tolle! I hope Loldershaw can shed some light on why penguins are not in the Hindu pantheon - they oughta be! I hope Jenbooks' mooving presence graces us for a long time to come. I hope If, who has the most splendid name and a very cool avatar, shares her BC vibe more! I hope Dr Yes doesn't mind that I have an enormous crush on him and that he'd have to look out if he was 20 years older! And, finally, I suspect that George is the Buddha, there's just something about the set of his ears!

Breathing, smiling and, of course, going slowly...

 

[MEKoan]

"The next Buddha will be the Sangha," meaning, the next Buddha will be the Community. Indeed! I had to run back here and share that with you all, it's so true.

Wow, Teej, wow.

I feel a rising up of intense good feeling.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...

for this and that and the other thing, too!

What amazing people there be here! I hope FreshEyes tells us about going to Nepal! I hope Zoe brings more Roz Chast and Roz Chastiness! I hope Gracenote keeps bringing her gentle and wise perspective to everything! I hope KC22 shares something about Ekhart Tolle! I hope Loldershaw can shed some light on why penguins are not in the Hindu pantheon - they oughta be! I hope Jenbooks' mooving presence graces us for a long time to come. I hope If, who has the most splendid name and a very cool avatar, shares her BC vibe more! I hope Dr Yes doesn't mind that I have an enormous crush on him and that he'd have to look out if he was 20 years older! And, finally, I suspect that George is the Buddha, there's just something about the set of his ears!

Breathing, smiling and, of course, going slowly...

 

[brenda]

So if Christianity is allowed on this thread......


I would like to defend the real thing which is far removed from what Fudamentalism and Sacramental religion.

The real deal has a lot in common with Buddhism but goes a lot further and is achieved in an instant and not after years of training and also not limited to the few who can go off to do the training ie not young mothers or those with a lot of responsibilities and therefore open to anyone who will respond to the message. I believe that religions such as Buddhism are based on the true gospel which is embedded in the typology of the Old Testament and not only starting when Jesus came to the earth.

But first I would like to say that what passes as Christianity has done a lot of damage to many, like many good things, it can lead to corruption. I was forunate I think in being brought up in an atheist home so when I met the real thing I had no conceptions to get over.

The real thing has been demonstrated only at certain times in church history, and was seen of course in the early church and then again at such times as the Wesley revivals, and the core of the teaching is, that man has become sick in spirit but there is a way out for him and it involves just taking one step. If he does this God will deliver him from what ails him and restore him to what he was supposed to be. It's not about doing things like going to church or taking the sacraments. It's about being changed in the inward man, in an instant, to be like Adam was that is to say, to have his spirit and soul restored so that it is as though it has never been maimed. Or in other words, to become sinless.

This is called holiness. God can do this in an instant and there are many testimonies in fact thousands of this happening but sadly we do not hear of it today as the spiritual climate, as it has been before in the past, is very low and false ideas have gained in popularity.

This holiness is nothing other than achieving oneness with God, being filled with His presence so that one is shown the truth of all things and that ones soul is healed from all damage, and that one has achieved what is called Niva na I believe but one does not lose oneself in the process, instead one is made whole but with Christ as the life in us instead of the ego.

The wonderful thing about this is that man does not do it, and indeed cannot although he can and many do go so far along the path but they fail to fully enter in if they come by any other door but Christ. They show they have entered in by that door by their pure lives. many claim this including Buddhists but fail to show the purity of life and are also unable to repeat it in their disciples without the long long path of training, and even so, how many achieve it?

Not that I wish to criticise these religions and their followers who are generally lovely people who really care to bring help to others. But I believe that they are not on the correct path which will lead them to heaven.

Brenda

 

[brenda]

So if Christianity is allowed on this thread......


I would like to defend the real thing which is far removed from what Fudamentalism and Sacramental religion.

The real deal has a lot in common with Buddhism but goes a lot further and is achieved in an instant and not after years of training and also not limited to the few who can go off to do the training ie not young mothers or those with a lot of responsibilities and therefore open to anyone who will respond to the message. I believe that religions such as Buddhism are based on the true gospel which is embedded in the typology of the Old Testament and not only starting when Jesus came to the earth.

But first I would like to say that what passes as Christianity has done a lot of damage to many, like many good things, it can lead to corruption. I was forunate I think in being brought up in an atheist home so when I met the real thing I had no conceptions to get over.

The real thing has been demonstrated only at certain times in church history, and was seen of course in the early church and then again at such times as the Wesley revivals, and the core of the teaching is, that man has become sick in spirit but there is a way out for him and it involves just taking one step. If he does this God will deliver him from what ails him and restore him to what he was supposed to be. It's not about doing things like going to church or taking the sacraments. It's about being changed in the inward man, in an instant, to be like Adam was that is to say, to have his spirit and soul restored so that it is as though it has never been maimed. Or in other words, to become sinless.

This is called holiness. God can do this in an instant and there are many testimonies in fact thousands of this happening but sadly we do not hear of it today as the spiritual climate, as it has been before in the past, is very low and false ideas have gained in popularity.

This holiness is nothing other than achieving oneness with God, being filled with His presence so that one is shown the truth of all things and that ones soul is healed from all damage, and that one has achieved what is called Niva na I believe but one does not lose oneself in the process, instead one is made whole but with Christ as the life in us instead of the ego.

The wonderful thing about this is that man does not do it, and indeed cannot although he can and many do go so far along the path but they fail to fully enter in if they come by any other door but Christ. They show they have entered in by that door by their pure lives. many claim this including Buddhists but fail to show the purity of life and are also unable to repeat it in their disciples without the long long path of training, and even so, how many achieve it?

Not that I wish to criticise these religions and their followers who are generally lovely people who really care to bring help to others. But I believe that they are not on the correct path which will lead them to heaven.

Brenda

 

[gracenote]

meditation and illness

I used to get a lot out of Buddhism when my CFS was mild. I could meditate and calm myself easily. Now my symptoms are way worse and the best kind of meditation for me now is the kind that takes me out of my body and away from my awareness of myself; instead of tuning into myself deeper and deeper.

From Dr. Yes (post #4):

Before I got sick I used to meditate easily and think deeply, but within months of getting sick I could no longer do so due to the cognitive strain. Later it grew worse, and like you said teejkay, I now find it impossible to be self-aware in meditation, or even breathing exercises...The only way I can relax is (sometimes) with guided relaxation that takes you away from yourself. Lately I have been able to (briefly) concentrate on important matters by focusing on a "centered" point that I developed (luckily!) out of necessity in the midst of all the recent upheaval in my life, probably with a little help from a memory of the sensation of calm from those relaxation techniques.

From Dr. Yes (post #5):

One of the first Hindu teachings I read after getting sick was by a famous yogi who said that one should neither expect nor even attempt to attain a higher state of wisdom or deeper understanding of self through yogic meditation if (1) the body is not healthy, or (2) for that reason or others, the emotions are in unusual turmoil. He (and others, as this is a basic yogic teaching) said that the first goal for people in those situations would be to seek healing (through Ayurved, in his case) and to use yoga/meditation only to heal and strengthen the body.

Now that I have been so well helped to figure out if I am a "self" or a "no-self" , what I'm interested in is meditation and its benefits for those of us who are ill. And I'm interested in how illness impacts our ability to meditate. I would love to hear more discussion about this.

----------
Also, could someone please enlighten me about how to quote several different posts that will connect back to their originals?

 

[gracenote]

meditation and illness

I used to get a lot out of Buddhism when my CFS was mild. I could meditate and calm myself easily. Now my symptoms are way worse and the best kind of meditation for me now is the kind that takes me out of my body and away from my awareness of myself; instead of tuning into myself deeper and deeper.

From Dr. Yes (post #4):

Before I got sick I used to meditate easily and think deeply, but within months of getting sick I could no longer do so due to the cognitive strain. Later it grew worse, and like you said teejkay, I now find it impossible to be self-aware in meditation, or even breathing exercises...The only way I can relax is (sometimes) with guided relaxation that takes you away from yourself. Lately I have been able to (briefly) concentrate on important matters by focusing on a "centered" point that I developed (luckily!) out of necessity in the midst of all the recent upheaval in my life, probably with a little help from a memory of the sensation of calm from those relaxation techniques.

From Dr. Yes (post #5):

One of the first Hindu teachings I read after getting sick was by a famous yogi who said that one should neither expect nor even attempt to attain a higher state of wisdom or deeper understanding of self through yogic meditation if (1) the body is not healthy, or (2) for that reason or others, the emotions are in unusual turmoil. He (and others, as this is a basic yogic teaching) said that the first goal for people in those situations would be to seek healing (through Ayurved, in his case) and to use yoga/meditation only to heal and strengthen the body.

Now that I have been so well helped to figure out if I am a "self" or a "no-self" , what I'm interested in is meditation and its benefits for those of us who are ill. And I'm interested in how illness impacts our ability to meditate. I would love to hear more discussion about this.

----------
Also, could someone please enlighten me about how to quote several different posts that will connect back to their originals?

 

[MEKoan]

I didn't meditate at all before the worst of my illness. The mere thought of meditation was enough to send me running! Illness stopped me from running both literally and figuratively.

I had no pre-illness meditation against which to judge my post illness meditation. I think I am lucky in this regard. I had no expectations at all.

For me, the the most significant benefit has been discovering that what I had thought was a seamless flow of thoughts was not seamless at all. Meditation allowed me to become aware of the space around and between thoughts in which I could respond to them rather than react as I had always done. This changed everything for me.

I think it was the Buddha who said: nothing can harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts. For me, this was very true.

 

[MEKoan]

I didn't meditate at all before the worst of my illness. The mere thought of meditation was enough to send me running! Illness stopped me from running both literally and figuratively.

I had no pre-illness meditation against which to judge my post illness meditation. I think I am lucky in this regard. I had no expectations at all.

For me, the the most significant benefit has been discovering that what I had thought was a seamless flow of thoughts was not seamless at all. Meditation allowed me to become aware of the space around and between thoughts in which I could respond to them rather than react as I had always done. This changed everything for me.

I think it was the Buddha who said: nothing can harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts. For me, this was very true.

 

[MEKoan]

Brenda,

Do you know anything about the Christian meditative tradition? Walking the labrynth is part of it, yes? I'm guessing because I really don't know but would like to.

ETA

This is from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community

CCMC logo
The Way of Meditation

In a world that is growing increasingly aware of its need for stability and depth, Christian Meditation is speaking to more and more people. It is rooted both in Christian tradition and experience, and is available to all. This is a path beyond thought and imagination into the presence of the risen Christ who dwells in our hearts. The way is one of simplicity and discipline:

1. Find a quiet place
2. Sit upright, relaxed and alert. Keep the spine as erect as possible
3. Be aware of your normal breathing pattern for a minute or two as you relax.

Gently close your eyes. Silently, interiorly, begin to say a single word. The Aramaic prayer phrase "Ma-ra-na-tha" is suggested, but one can use another word that perhaps resonates with you. Remember, the word is used as an anchor—it is not necessary for it to have a meaning (which may become a distraction.)

Synchronize your breathing with your mantra. (e.g. breathe in on "Ma-ra", breathe out on "na-tha".)
4. Listen to your mantra as you say it, gently and continuously.
5. Do not think or imagine anything—spiritual or otherwise.
6. As thoughts or images appear, put them gently aside and return to your mantra.
7. Meditate each morning and evening for 20 to 30 minutes.

The purpose of meditation is not to "lose" awareness and strive to reach an altered state. Quite simply, as one sits with the mantra, one becomes intensely aware without becoming involved in the experience of each moment, be it thought, image, emotion, sound etc.

Resist the temptation to judge the "quality" of your meditation. Sit with your breath and your mantra and accept lovingly whatever comes. There is no "good" or "bad" meditation. Be very gentle with yourself

Persist!

It seems that Buddhists and Christians meditate in a very similar way. Isn't that wonderful? I think so. Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.

I would not suggest that someone begin with 20 to 30 minutes twice a day

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

Forgive all nonsense, please, I have porridge for brains today.

 

[MEKoan]

Brenda,

Do you know anything about the Christian meditative tradition? Walking the labrynth is part of it, yes? I'm guessing because I really don't know but would like to.

ETA

This is from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community

CCMC logo
The Way of Meditation

In a world that is growing increasingly aware of its need for stability and depth, Christian Meditation is speaking to more and more people. It is rooted both in Christian tradition and experience, and is available to all. This is a path beyond thought and imagination into the presence of the risen Christ who dwells in our hearts. The way is one of simplicity and discipline:

1. Find a quiet place
2. Sit upright, relaxed and alert. Keep the spine as erect as possible
3. Be aware of your normal breathing pattern for a minute or two as you relax.

Gently close your eyes. Silently, interiorly, begin to say a single word. The Aramaic prayer phrase "Ma-ra-na-tha" is suggested, but one can use another word that perhaps resonates with you. Remember, the word is used as an anchor—it is not necessary for it to have a meaning (which may become a distraction.)

Synchronize your breathing with your mantra. (e.g. breathe in on "Ma-ra", breathe out on "na-tha".)
4. Listen to your mantra as you say it, gently and continuously.
5. Do not think or imagine anything—spiritual or otherwise.
6. As thoughts or images appear, put them gently aside and return to your mantra.
7. Meditate each morning and evening for 20 to 30 minutes.

The purpose of meditation is not to "lose" awareness and strive to reach an altered state. Quite simply, as one sits with the mantra, one becomes intensely aware without becoming involved in the experience of each moment, be it thought, image, emotion, sound etc.

Resist the temptation to judge the "quality" of your meditation. Sit with your breath and your mantra and accept lovingly whatever comes. There is no "good" or "bad" meditation. Be very gentle with yourself

Persist!

It seems that Buddhists and Christians meditate in a very similar way. Isn't that wonderful? I think so. Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.

I would not suggest that someone begin with 20 to 30 minutes twice a day

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

Forgive all nonsense, please, I have porridge for brains today.

 

[MEKoan]

How I meditate much of the time. This is not my actual mantra. I use different mantras to accomplish different tuning of my state of mind and heart. This is, however, representative of the process for me.

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in lo ... I should have turned off the computer, why am I not better at turning off the computer, wait a minute!, I always turn things off, always, no you don't and there's a big iceberg floating towards Austrailia, iceberg lettuce is not a real food, I don't know why anyo... Oh dear! smile...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing in... hahaha, I already breathed in, that's so funny, I can't breathe in twice, I'm so funny sometimes! Whoa, get a load of your ego! You're so funny sometimes?! Honestly, you are impossible... it's not working, it's not going to work this time... oh! smile...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathi ... I'm really doing it well now, look at me go, I'm a meditati... oh, oops, let it go... but I'm itchy... let it go...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long... there goes a thought, strange one, let it go

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long... perceptions are so interesting

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long... surprising feeling, let it go

...breathing out long... feel so good, like feeling good, feeling good is good, I'm doing good at feeling good, OMG, your ego is totally out of control! How can you... haahaha... there it goes...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...

 

[MEKoan]

How I meditate much of the time. This is not my actual mantra. I use different mantras to accomplish different tuning of my state of mind and heart. This is, however, representative of the process for me.

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in lo ... I should have turned off the computer, why am I not better at turning off the computer, wait a minute!, I always turn things off, always, no you don't and there's a big iceberg floating towards Austrailia, iceberg lettuce is not a real food, I don't know why anyo... Oh dear! smile...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing in... hahaha, I already breathed in, that's so funny, I can't breathe in twice, I'm so funny sometimes! Whoa, get a load of your ego! You're so funny sometimes?! Honestly, you are impossible... it's not working, it's not going to work this time... oh! smile...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathi ... I'm really doing it well now, look at me go, I'm a meditati... oh, oops, let it go... but I'm itchy... let it go...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long... there goes a thought, strange one, let it go

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long... perceptions are so interesting

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...breathing in long... surprising feeling, let it go

...breathing out long... feel so good, like feeling good, feeling good is good, I'm doing good at feeling good, OMG, your ego is totally out of control! How can you... haahaha... there it goes...

...breathing in long...

...breathing out long...

...

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hey Koan--

I just arose from my burnout bed to temporarily check in and voila! I see illustrations of your mind in meditation.
I was just going thru a similar process... But mine is noisier today. Here's what mind sounded like just a few minutes ago:

inhale: Damn, I keep forgetting to breathe deeply. I really need to remember to do this.

exhale: BUT when I inhale deeply I feel more symptoms more intensely, I think that's why I breathe shallowly.... JUST SHUT UP and BREATHE!... I really want to feel better. Stupid stupid brain symptoms are going to drive me crazy. Is this another heavy metal detox or what....

exhale: just breathe don't think. focus on breath.

inhale: silence

exhale: I wonder if it's going to rain tonight. It's so cold in here.

inhale: Maybe I should just get up and check the latest posts. No, I just want to lie and here and be quiet. I meditate much better when I do some deep breathing exercises with Rodney Yee prior, I'm too lazy to move. Am I hungry?

exhale: breath noise.... silence

inhale: strange, but I think I feel better deep breathing now, what's that song about Chestnuts roasting...

exhale: damn, I think too much when I'm exhausted. how come this is so hard today... I think I'll take some magnesium..

ETC... >>>$%#&*)($%$@!&)^%$#

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hey Koan--

I just arose from my burnout bed to temporarily check in and voila! I see illustrations of your mind in meditation.
I was just going thru a similar process... But mine is noisier today. Here's what mind sounded like just a few minutes ago:

inhale: Damn, I keep forgetting to breathe deeply. I really need to remember to do this.

exhale: BUT when I inhale deeply I feel more symptoms more intensely, I think that's why I breathe shallowly.... JUST SHUT UP and BREATHE!... I really want to feel better. Stupid stupid brain symptoms are going to drive me crazy. Is this another heavy metal detox or what....

exhale: just breathe don't think. focus on breath.

inhale: silence

exhale: I wonder if it's going to rain tonight. It's so cold in here.

inhale: Maybe I should just get up and check the latest posts. No, I just want to lie and here and be quiet. I meditate much better when I do some deep breathing exercises with Rodney Yee prior, I'm too lazy to move. Am I hungry?

exhale: breath noise.... silence

inhale: strange, but I think I feel better deep breathing now, what's that song about Chestnuts roasting...

exhale: damn, I think too much when I'm exhausted. how come this is so hard today... I think I'll take some magnesium..

ETC... >>>$%#&*)($%$@!&)^%$#

 

[gracenote]

meditating made easy(er)

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

This is some of the best advice on meditating that I have ever read!

----------
Thanks Koan and Dreambirdie for letting us into your process. Sounds very familiar! Very, very familiar.

 

[gracenote]

meditating made easy(er)

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

This is some of the best advice on meditating that I have ever read!

----------
Thanks Koan and Dreambirdie for letting us into your process. Sounds very familiar! Very, very familiar.