Buddhism & CFS

Dreambirdie

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I have tried on MANY kinds of meditation: TM, Tibetan Buddhist, Zen Buddhist, Vipassana Buddhist, Sufi (which is dancing meditation), Hindu bhagan chanting, shamanic breathwork trance meditation... and there are probably others that I can't remember right now.

I agree with Koan that it's the DOING not the DURATION that matters. It's easy to get caught in the "rules" of a particular school and how THEY SAY to meditate, but in the end what matters is how it works for you. There is no "right" way to find peace. So if you want to do it standing on your head, or lounging in the bath tub, hurray for that!
 

Dreambirdie

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I have tried on MANY kinds of meditation: TM, Tibetan Buddhist, Zen Buddhist, Vipassana Buddhist, Sufi (which is dancing meditation), Hindu bhagan chanting, shamanic breathwork trance meditation... and there are probably others that I can't remember right now.

I agree with Koan that it's the DOING not the DURATION that matters. It's easy to get caught in the "rules" of a particular school and how THEY SAY to meditate, but in the end what matters is how it works for you. There is no "right" way to find peace. So if you want to do it standing on your head, or lounging in the bath tub, hurray for that!
 

MEKoan

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I agree, with Dreambirdie. I think people think they should make their mind go blank and maybe there are people who can but I don't know them.

When one's brain, the thought generator, generates thoughts in its thinky, thinky way, the most useful response is: good, this is just what I need to work with!

Everything happens in the returning of your attention to the breath. Your brain is like a puppy and if it doesn't run away you can't train it to come, sit, stay.

The noisy chaos in your head is not a problem, it is exactly what you need. Getting sidetracked is not a problem, it is just what you need. Forgetting you are meditating and finding yourself lost in thought is not a problem, it is precisely what you need to train your brain.

One returns and returns and returns again... and the brain gets trained to do what one wants it to do and not be on thought spewing auto-pilot all the time.

It all happens in the returning. Come, sit, stay. Good brain!

Some of the thoughts seem really frightening or really important or really compelling... the more so for being rammed up against each other. Let them go. Return to the breath. Breathe away any sense of alarm or worry or fretfulness... just in this moment, that's all, just this moment.

The brain is learning not to attach fiercely to scary thoughts. The brain is being trained to see thoughts for what they are: just thoughts. The brain is being trained, like a muscle to behave in a certain way: alert, awake but untroubled by the thoughts that come and go.

I don't actually meditate to feel peaceful in the moment although I do feel somewhat more peaceful while I meditate. I meditate to train my brain so that the way it functions all the time is different. I meditate so that I feel some mastery over my brain.

My meditation has not addressed my cognitive issues in any way that restores function but my reaction to my cognitive problems, which are mighty, is curiousity rather than alarm. I truly don't think I could handle feeling so befuddled and alarmed all at once, I really don't.

This is not a good thinking day at all. I do hope I'm making sense. :p
 

MEKoan

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I agree, with Dreambirdie. I think people think they should make their mind go blank and maybe there are people who can but I don't know them.

When one's brain, the thought generator, generates thoughts in its thinky, thinky way, the most useful response is: good, this is just what I need to work with!

Everything happens in the returning of your attention to the breath. Your brain is like a puppy and if it doesn't run away you can't train it to come, sit, stay.

The noisy chaos in your head is not a problem, it is exactly what you need. Getting sidetracked is not a problem, it is just what you need. Forgetting you are meditating and finding yourself lost in thought is not a problem, it is precisely what you need to train your brain.

One returns and returns and returns again... and the brain gets trained to do what one wants it to do and not be on thought spewing auto-pilot all the time.

It all happens in the returning. Come, sit, stay. Good brain!

Some of the thoughts seem really frightening or really important or really compelling... the more so for being rammed up against each other. Let them go. Return to the breath. Breathe away any sense of alarm or worry or fretfulness... just in this moment, that's all, just this moment.

The brain is learning not to attach fiercely to scary thoughts. The brain is being trained to see thoughts for what they are: just thoughts. The brain is being trained, like a muscle to behave in a certain way: alert, awake but untroubled by the thoughts that come and go.

I don't actually meditate to feel peaceful in the moment although I do feel somewhat more peaceful while I meditate. I meditate to train my brain so that the way it functions all the time is different. I meditate so that I feel some mastery over my brain.

My meditation has not addressed my cognitive issues in any way that restores function but my reaction to my cognitive problems, which are mighty, is curiousity rather than alarm. I truly don't think I could handle feeling so befuddled and alarmed all at once, I really don't.

This is not a good thinking day at all. I do hope I'm making sense. :p
 

MEKoan

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Thanks Koan and Dreambirdie for letting us into your process. Sounds very familiar! Very, very familiar.
You know, Gracenote, one of our biggest obstacles is feeling that we are special because we almost always feel we are specially bad. We are the same. Same/same. SAME. same Same.

I think that's such a huge relief!

same.
 

MEKoan

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Thanks Koan and Dreambirdie for letting us into your process. Sounds very familiar! Very, very familiar.
You know, Gracenote, one of our biggest obstacles is feeling that we are special because we almost always feel we are specially bad. We are the same. Same/same. SAME. same Same.

I think that's such a huge relief!

same.
 

MEKoan

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Breathe away any sense of alarm or worry or fretfulness... just in this moment, that's all, just this moment.
Let your breath carry away painful feelings but, don't fight them.

Let it go but, don't push it away.

Don't push. Just let it go.

If it doesn't go, just breathe...

just attend to the breath,

just this one breath
 

MEKoan

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Breathe away any sense of alarm or worry or fretfulness... just in this moment, that's all, just this moment.
Let your breath carry away painful feelings but, don't fight them.

Let it go but, don't push it away.

Don't push. Just let it go.

If it doesn't go, just breathe...

just attend to the breath,

just this one breath
 

Dreambirdie

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I don't actually meditate to feel peaceful in the moment although I do feel somewhat more peaceful while I meditate. I meditate to train my brain so that the way it functions all the time is different. I meditate so that I feel some mastery over my brain.
I think the irony is that the more WILLINGLY I accept the chaos/fear/pain in my mind, the more peaceful I feel. :eek: I ALWAYS FOGERT THIS! and have to be RE-minded minded minded over and over again. :eek::p:p

You'd think after a couple decades I would get it... but damn I am slow!
 

Dreambirdie

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I don't actually meditate to feel peaceful in the moment although I do feel somewhat more peaceful while I meditate. I meditate to train my brain so that the way it functions all the time is different. I meditate so that I feel some mastery over my brain.
I think the irony is that the more WILLINGLY I accept the chaos/fear/pain in my mind, the more peaceful I feel. :eek: I ALWAYS FOGERT THIS! and have to be RE-minded minded minded over and over again. :eek::p:p

You'd think after a couple decades I would get it... but damn I am slow!
 

starryeyes

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Excellent. I love this thread :)

First I want to say that for me Buddhism is not a religion but a spiritual philosophy. This article explains some ideas about Buddhism as a philosophy and/or a religion:

http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/philosophy.htm

Koan-- just reading your thread on Breathing Meditation calms me and helps me meditate. Thank you for writing that out and your puppy analogy is funny and true.

For those of you who are noticing your thoughts as you try to meditate, good job. :) Awareness is the first step. Notice that your thoughts come and go but that there is always a calm place in the center of your mind in the midst of it all. The eye of the storm.

Thich has a song about this that goes:
My mind is a clear blue sky. My mind is a clear blue sky. And the thoughts come and the thoughts go.. but my mind is a clear blue sky. My mind is a clear blue sky.
Your thoughts are like clouds see? Just notice them as they come and go and notice how you are reacting to them. Then gently bring your mind back to your meditation................. Repeat.......................... repeat........................................ repeat............................

I find guided meditations help me the most now that I am severely ill. I just entered "meditation i am not my body" into Google to look up a link on it and our fellow CFS sufferer Ken Wilber is at the top of the list! lol

He writes a nice guided meditation on this subject. I'm sure he finds this very helpful because he has CFS:

* Begin with 2-3 minutes of bodymind/center awareness

* "Slowly begin to silently recite the following to yourself, trying to realize as vividly as possible the import of each statement:" (repeat several times)

o "I have a body, but I am not my body.
I can see and feel my body, and what can be seen and felt is not the true Seer.
My body may be tired or excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, but that has nothing to do with my inward I.
I have a body, but I am not my body."

o "I have desires, but I am not my desires.
I can know my desires, and what can be known is not the true Knower.
Desires come and go, floating through my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have desires, but I am not my desires."

o "I have emotions, but I am not my emotions.
I can feel and sense my emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler.
Emotions pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have emotions, but I am not my emotions."

o "I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts.
I can know and intuit my thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower.
Thoughts come to me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts."

* Affirm as concretely as possible:

o "I am what remains, a pure center of awareness, an unmoved witness of all these thoughts, emotions, feelings, and desires.
Here's the link: http://www.integralworld.net/meditation.html

Aummmmmm....
 

starryeyes

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Excellent. I love this thread :)

First I want to say that for me Buddhism is not a religion but a spiritual philosophy. This article explains some ideas about Buddhism as a philosophy and/or a religion:

http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/philosophy.htm

Koan-- just reading your thread on Breathing Meditation calms me and helps me meditate. Thank you for writing that out and your puppy analogy is funny and true.

For those of you who are noticing your thoughts as you try to meditate, good job. :) Awareness is the first step. Notice that your thoughts come and go but that there is always a calm place in the center of your mind in the midst of it all. The eye of the storm.

Thich has a song about this that goes:
My mind is a clear blue sky. My mind is a clear blue sky. And the thoughts come and the thoughts go.. but my mind is a clear blue sky. My mind is a clear blue sky.
Your thoughts are like clouds see? Just notice them as they come and go and notice how you are reacting to them. Then gently bring your mind back to your meditation................. Repeat.......................... repeat........................................ repeat............................

I find guided meditations help me the most now that I am severely ill. I just entered "meditation i am not my body" into Google to look up a link on it and our fellow CFS sufferer Ken Wilber is at the top of the list! lol

He writes a nice guided meditation on this subject. I'm sure he finds this very helpful because he has CFS:

* Begin with 2-3 minutes of bodymind/center awareness

* "Slowly begin to silently recite the following to yourself, trying to realize as vividly as possible the import of each statement:" (repeat several times)

o "I have a body, but I am not my body.
I can see and feel my body, and what can be seen and felt is not the true Seer.
My body may be tired or excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, but that has nothing to do with my inward I.
I have a body, but I am not my body."

o "I have desires, but I am not my desires.
I can know my desires, and what can be known is not the true Knower.
Desires come and go, floating through my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have desires, but I am not my desires."

o "I have emotions, but I am not my emotions.
I can feel and sense my emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler.
Emotions pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have emotions, but I am not my emotions."

o "I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts.
I can know and intuit my thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower.
Thoughts come to me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I.
I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts."

* Affirm as concretely as possible:

o "I am what remains, a pure center of awareness, an unmoved witness of all these thoughts, emotions, feelings, and desires.
Here's the link: http://www.integralworld.net/meditation.html

Aummmmmm....
 

MEKoan

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Hi Teej,

Lovely stuff and such useful links! Isn't it interesting how we can forget, come to believe we can't do it any more and then it all comes back. I love that!

I just wanted to say that if a new meditator cannot distinguish a calm place in the centre of their mind, that's ok. I know I couldn't and I felt that not being able to meant I could not meditate. I hear that a lot from people who truly believe that they are uniquely unable to meditate - people with ADD, ADHD, persistent anxiety and sadness... and, of course, these people usually benefit most once they practice for a little while and find the thoughts parting slightly, like clouds, revealing the clear blue sky.

It's ok to believe there is no calm place. Just do it and it reveals itself to you.

You know, Tee, I've been writing and talking about that unruly puppy for years and I'm starting to see it elsewhere on the www. Makes me happy in an ego ridden kind of way :p :eek: :p

I don't know what Buddhism is for me - philosophy, religion... way of life, maybe. I just don't know what to call it. All I know is that I really needed it because I was very good an creating suffering for myself and, of course, for others, too. These tools, this guidance and what small understanding of universal compassion I can grasp are like a miracle in my life.

namaste
 

MEKoan

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Hi Teej,

Lovely stuff and such useful links! Isn't it interesting how we can forget, come to believe we can't do it any more and then it all comes back. I love that!

I just wanted to say that if a new meditator cannot distinguish a calm place in the centre of their mind, that's ok. I know I couldn't and I felt that not being able to meant I could not meditate. I hear that a lot from people who truly believe that they are uniquely unable to meditate - people with ADD, ADHD, persistent anxiety and sadness... and, of course, these people usually benefit most once they practice for a little while and find the thoughts parting slightly, like clouds, revealing the clear blue sky.

It's ok to believe there is no calm place. Just do it and it reveals itself to you.

You know, Tee, I've been writing and talking about that unruly puppy for years and I'm starting to see it elsewhere on the www. Makes me happy in an ego ridden kind of way :p :eek: :p

I don't know what Buddhism is for me - philosophy, religion... way of life, maybe. I just don't know what to call it. All I know is that I really needed it because I was very good an creating suffering for myself and, of course, for others, too. These tools, this guidance and what small understanding of universal compassion I can grasp are like a miracle in my life.

namaste
 

brenda

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Do you know anything about the Christian meditative tradition? Walking the labrynth is part of it, yes? I'm guessing because I really don't know but would like to.

ETA

This is from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community

CCMC logo
The Way of Meditation

In a world that is growing increasingly aware of its need for stability and depth, Christian Meditation is speaking to more and more people. It is rooted both in Christian tradition and experience, and is available to all. This is a path beyond thought and imagination into the presence of the risen Christ who dwells in our hearts. The way is one of simplicity and discipline:

1. Find a quiet place
2. Sit upright, relaxed and alert. Keep the spine as erect as possible
3. Be aware of your normal breathing pattern for a minute or two as you relax.

Gently close your eyes. Silently, interiorly, begin to say a single word. The Aramaic prayer phrase "Ma-ra-na-tha" is suggested, but one can use another word that perhaps resonates with you. Remember, the word is used as an anchor—it is not necessary for it to have a meaning (which may become a distraction.)

Synchronize your breathing with your mantra. (e.g. breathe in on "Ma-ra", breathe out on "na-tha".)
4. Listen to your mantra as you say it, gently and continuously.
5. Do not think or imagine anything—spiritual or otherwise.
6. As thoughts or images appear, put them gently aside and return to your mantra.
7. Meditate each morning and evening for 20 to 30 minutes.

The purpose of meditation is not to "lose" awareness and strive to reach an altered state. Quite simply, as one sits with the mantra, one becomes intensely aware without becoming involved in the experience of each moment, be it thought, image, emotion, sound etc.

Resist the temptation to judge the "quality" of your meditation. Sit with your breath and your mantra and accept lovingly whatever comes. There is no "good" or "bad" meditation. Be very gentle with yourself

Persist!

It seems that Buddhists and Christians meditate in a very similar way. Isn't that wonderful? I think so. Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.

I would not suggest that someone begin with 20 to 30 minutes twice a day

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

Forgive all nonsense, please, I have porridge for brains today.
Thanks Koan. First of all I looked up labyrinth and found that some think it is the same thing as a maze -


A labyrinth is an ancient symbol that relates to wholeness. It combines the imagery of the circle and the spiral into a meandering but purposeful path. The Labyrinth represents a journey to our own center and back again out into the world. Labyrinths have long been used as meditation and prayer tools.

A labyrinth is an archetype with which we can have a direct experience. We can walk it. It is a metaphor for life's journey. It is a symbol that creates a sacred space and place and takes us out of our ego to "That Which Is Within."

Labyrinths and mazes have often been confused. When most people hear of a labyrinth they think of a maze. A labyrinth is not a maze. A maze is like a puzzle to be solved. It has twists, turns, and blind alleys. It is a left brain task that requires logical, sequential, analytical activity to find the correct path into the maze and out.

A labyrinth has only one path. It is unicursal. The way in is the way out. There are no blind alleys. The path leads you on a circuitous path to the center and out again.

A labyrinth is a right brain task. It involves intuition, creativity, and imagery. With a maze many choices must be made and an active mind is needed to solve the problem of finding the center. With a labyrinth there is only one choice to be made. The choice is to enter or not. A more passive, receptive mindset is needed. The choice is whether or not to walk a spiritual path.

At its most basic level the labyrinth is a metaphor for the journey to the center of your deepest self and back out into the world with a broadened understanding of who you are.
http://www.lessons4living.com/labyrinth.htm

And here is something about walking the labyrinth which is what I think you were referring to

http://www.sacredwalk.com/

Although the information from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community which you quoted says that the aim is not a striving for an altered state of consiousness, it will be the result especially when using a mantra and this is where there is a huge gulf between it and authentic Christianity, however much the two have been blended together by some in their quest for 'salvation' in these modern times where the interest in any form of spirituality has increased enormously.

Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.
It may be according to some understandings but not according to what I am calling authentic Christianity or Biblical Christianity, as the aim of the Buddhist teaching is to still the brain of its activity whereas Christianity says that this is a dangerous thing and opens the mind up to negative forces. The Christian way is to retain consciousness at all times but to contemplate on spiritual matters as opposed to fleshy and to be listening to God speak in the still small voice within. One of the greatest Christian mystics Madame Guyon, recommended praying fromt he heart and not the head. But in all of these practices there is no sense of altering conciousness.

The teaching today is that all roads lead to the same destination but that is against what Jesus taught when he said that he is the way the truth and the light and no man comes to the father but by him.
 

brenda

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Do you know anything about the Christian meditative tradition? Walking the labrynth is part of it, yes? I'm guessing because I really don't know but would like to.

ETA

This is from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community

CCMC logo
The Way of Meditation

In a world that is growing increasingly aware of its need for stability and depth, Christian Meditation is speaking to more and more people. It is rooted both in Christian tradition and experience, and is available to all. This is a path beyond thought and imagination into the presence of the risen Christ who dwells in our hearts. The way is one of simplicity and discipline:

1. Find a quiet place
2. Sit upright, relaxed and alert. Keep the spine as erect as possible
3. Be aware of your normal breathing pattern for a minute or two as you relax.

Gently close your eyes. Silently, interiorly, begin to say a single word. The Aramaic prayer phrase "Ma-ra-na-tha" is suggested, but one can use another word that perhaps resonates with you. Remember, the word is used as an anchor—it is not necessary for it to have a meaning (which may become a distraction.)

Synchronize your breathing with your mantra. (e.g. breathe in on "Ma-ra", breathe out on "na-tha".)
4. Listen to your mantra as you say it, gently and continuously.
5. Do not think or imagine anything—spiritual or otherwise.
6. As thoughts or images appear, put them gently aside and return to your mantra.
7. Meditate each morning and evening for 20 to 30 minutes.

The purpose of meditation is not to "lose" awareness and strive to reach an altered state. Quite simply, as one sits with the mantra, one becomes intensely aware without becoming involved in the experience of each moment, be it thought, image, emotion, sound etc.

Resist the temptation to judge the "quality" of your meditation. Sit with your breath and your mantra and accept lovingly whatever comes. There is no "good" or "bad" meditation. Be very gentle with yourself

Persist!

It seems that Buddhists and Christians meditate in a very similar way. Isn't that wonderful? I think so. Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.

I would not suggest that someone begin with 20 to 30 minutes twice a day

I think 5 to 10 minutes twice a day is plenty to start. 1 to 3 minutes once or twice a day is ok, too. IMO, what matters is the doing and the gentle - repetition is more important than duration. So, if you can actually do 3 minutes twice a day, or 1 minute 10 times a day, or whatever, it's much better than having an experience that is unpleasant and turns you off. I think too many people get discouraged because they cannot endure 20 to 30 minutes. I don't think that's a biggie, personally.

Also, sitting is not mandatory. I don't sit to meditate. I meditate lying down and it has proven no obstacle at all. It's good to be comfortable but not in the position you adopt to go to sleep - unless you want to breathe yourself to sleep which I do every night. That's a no no. I do it anyway.

I also think it is important to smile just a little bit. Not a big grin, just a slight upturn of the lips in a relaxed face. I bet Christians and Buddhists smile the same way, too.

Forgive all nonsense, please, I have porridge for brains today.
Thanks Koan. First of all I looked up labyrinth and found that some think it is the same thing as a maze -


A labyrinth is an ancient symbol that relates to wholeness. It combines the imagery of the circle and the spiral into a meandering but purposeful path. The Labyrinth represents a journey to our own center and back again out into the world. Labyrinths have long been used as meditation and prayer tools.

A labyrinth is an archetype with which we can have a direct experience. We can walk it. It is a metaphor for life's journey. It is a symbol that creates a sacred space and place and takes us out of our ego to "That Which Is Within."

Labyrinths and mazes have often been confused. When most people hear of a labyrinth they think of a maze. A labyrinth is not a maze. A maze is like a puzzle to be solved. It has twists, turns, and blind alleys. It is a left brain task that requires logical, sequential, analytical activity to find the correct path into the maze and out.

A labyrinth has only one path. It is unicursal. The way in is the way out. There are no blind alleys. The path leads you on a circuitous path to the center and out again.

A labyrinth is a right brain task. It involves intuition, creativity, and imagery. With a maze many choices must be made and an active mind is needed to solve the problem of finding the center. With a labyrinth there is only one choice to be made. The choice is to enter or not. A more passive, receptive mindset is needed. The choice is whether or not to walk a spiritual path.

At its most basic level the labyrinth is a metaphor for the journey to the center of your deepest self and back out into the world with a broadened understanding of who you are.
http://www.lessons4living.com/labyrinth.htm

And here is something about walking the labyrinth which is what I think you were referring to

http://www.sacredwalk.com/

Although the information from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community which you quoted says that the aim is not a striving for an altered state of consiousness, it will be the result especially when using a mantra and this is where there is a huge gulf between it and authentic Christianity, however much the two have been blended together by some in their quest for 'salvation' in these modern times where the interest in any form of spirituality has increased enormously.

Training the Buddhist brain and the Christian brain is the same process.
It may be according to some understandings but not according to what I am calling authentic Christianity or Biblical Christianity, as the aim of the Buddhist teaching is to still the brain of its activity whereas Christianity says that this is a dangerous thing and opens the mind up to negative forces. The Christian way is to retain consciousness at all times but to contemplate on spiritual matters as opposed to fleshy and to be listening to God speak in the still small voice within. One of the greatest Christian mystics Madame Guyon, recommended praying fromt he heart and not the head. But in all of these practices there is no sense of altering conciousness.

The teaching today is that all roads lead to the same destination but that is against what Jesus taught when he said that he is the way the truth and the light and no man comes to the father but by him.
 

liverock

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Although the information from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community which you quoted says that the aim is not a striving for an altered state of consiousness, it will be the result especially when using a mantra and this is where there is a huge gulf between it and authentic Christianity, however much the two have been blended together by some in their quest for 'salvation' in these modern times where the interest in any form of spirituality has increased enormously.



It may be according to some understandings but not according to what I am calling authentic Christianity or Biblical Christianity, as the aim of the Buddhist teaching is to still the brain of its activity whereas Christianity says that this is a dangerous thing and opens the mind up to negative forces. The Christian way is to retain consciousness at all times but to contemplate on spiritual matters as opposed to fleshy and to be listening to God speak in the still small voice within. One of the greatest Christian mystics Madame Guyon, recommended praying fromt he heart and not the head. But in all of these practices there is no sense of altering conciousness.

The teaching today is that all roads lead to the same destination but that is against what Jesus taught when he said that he is the way the truth and the light and no man comes to the father but by him.
Thats exactly right Brenda.

I have met people who have tried to blend Christian meditation with Bhuddism, Mantras and other exercises such as yoga and they all seem to end up in confusion.
 

liverock

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Although the information from the Canadian Christian Meditation Community which you quoted says that the aim is not a striving for an altered state of consiousness, it will be the result especially when using a mantra and this is where there is a huge gulf between it and authentic Christianity, however much the two have been blended together by some in their quest for 'salvation' in these modern times where the interest in any form of spirituality has increased enormously.



It may be according to some understandings but not according to what I am calling authentic Christianity or Biblical Christianity, as the aim of the Buddhist teaching is to still the brain of its activity whereas Christianity says that this is a dangerous thing and opens the mind up to negative forces. The Christian way is to retain consciousness at all times but to contemplate on spiritual matters as opposed to fleshy and to be listening to God speak in the still small voice within. One of the greatest Christian mystics Madame Guyon, recommended praying fromt he heart and not the head. But in all of these practices there is no sense of altering conciousness.

The teaching today is that all roads lead to the same destination but that is against what Jesus taught when he said that he is the way the truth and the light and no man comes to the father but by him.
Thats exactly right Brenda.

I have met people who have tried to blend Christian meditation with Bhuddism, Mantras and other exercises such as yoga and they all seem to end up in confusion.