B2 I love you!

[niki]

B2 makes me bloated, I need a form that bypasses the gut. Greg should make a B2 oil. Once I raise my levels, I may be able to tolerate B12, folate much better.

Did you have any luck with that?

 

[niki]

Hi all! I'm drowning in this B2 thread of info and didn't come across anyone with my experience. Taking B2 (R5P) to try and correct my MAO folate b12 methylation situation. I started with 2.5mg then up to 5mg the next week and I had increased anxiety hyper wired tired heart palls and insomnia with nightmares for 3 days. I stopped the b2 and felt exhausted from it all and finally slept- still stressed. Now I'm depressed and extra worn out (CFS life). This happens with almost any B vitamin...or so I believe Adrenaline kicks in and won't turn off... I went through this for 6mo working with a practitioner and it nearly killed me. SO! Can anyone tell me if they can relate with adrenaline when trying to take in what you're deficient in and how you got through it? Thanks in advance!! Ps- I took iodine selenium kelp with the b2/R5P and I think I have enough molybdenum in my diet.

 

[bigmillz]

Having amazing luck with B2 (specifically FMN) still, and it's really helping me tolerate methylfolate. I previously couldn't get over 100-200mcg, and now I'm up to 10mg and feeling awesome

One question though: the B2 seems to leave me a little tired around dinnertime - some 6-8 hours after dosing, and then I bounce back, right before bedtime. Does anyone prefer to take B2 before bed? Does it work just as well?

 

[Kathevans]

Having amazing luck with B2 (specifically FMN) still, and it's really helping me tolerate methylfolate. I previously couldn't get over 100-200mcg, and now I'm up to 10mg and feeling awesome

Yes! good work. I, too found that once I had B2 and its cofactors--the iodine, molybdenum and sleenium--on boardk I suddenly could go higher than the 1500mcg of folate that I could then tolerate. I'm currently playing with 5-7,000mcg of folate and have gotten as high as 11,000mcg--though that felt uncomfortable. The other key to going higher for me has been the addition of Adenosyl B12. That also has been essential.

But as to your question, rumor here has it that taking B2 is better taken in smaller doses several times/day. I've been taking it at least 4x. It's all about experimentation...!

 

[bigmillz]

Yes! good work. I, too found that once I had B2 and its cofactors--the iodine, molybdenum and sleenium--on boardk I suddenly could go higher than the 1500mcg of folate that I could then tolerate. I'm currently playing with 5-7,000mcg of folate and have gotten as high as 11,000mcg--though that felt uncomfortable. The other key to going higher for me has been the addition of Adenosyl B12. That also has been essential.

How much adenoB12 are you taking? I take 1.5mg daily, and 5mg of methylB12. Any more methyl and I start getting really uncomfortable.

 

[Kathevans]

Adrenaline kicks in and won't turn off... I went through this for 6mo working with a practitioner and it nearly killed me. SO! Can anyone tell me if they can relate with adrenaline when trying to take in what you're deficient in and how you got through it?

Unfortuately, this unpleasant effect can be part of it if your adrenals have not been up to par. I have been schooled by Greg Russell-Jones, the B-12 Oils guy who is a PhD in Biochemistry, and it's his opinion that it's adrenal precursors that get built up in your glands that the B12 stimulates. All I can suggest is going very slow. Your body apparently needs to get beyond this point to settle down. In any case, that is no longer the issue with me. Now it's high potassium and folate needs. Things do move along if we prod them. Just be gentle...

Also, molybdenum was extremely important to me and going forward. I literally stopped most other supps and titrated up. I had terrible black insomnia, missed a family vacation to France, and ended up getting atrial fibrillation and ended up in the ER when I added MeB12 back in (I believe because I was so deficient--it was as if my body was like, "I need this stuff and you're going to give me this tiny amount--portion of a sublingual?"). Interestingly, as I've gotten my body more attuned to the methylation supplements, I find I can tolerate many other supplements both more and better than I could in the past. I was really the Princess and the Half-Pea, as my bro-in-law called me...!

 

[Kathevans]

How much adenoB12 are you taking? I take 1.5mg daily, and 5mg of methylB12. Any more methyl and I start getting really uncomfortable.

Currently 1 squirt Adenosyl/Methyl Oil, 1 squirt Methyl Oil and assorted extra tablets to cover gaps. According to Greg, the amounts in the Oils are: 1.8 mg ado, 0.7 mg meB12 in the combined product; 0.75 mg meB12 in the methyl product. But remember, the amount absorbed in the oils is said to be as high as 80%, whereas with the sublinguals it's only 5-10%, I think I recall. Read the Transdermal Oils thread to see what others have to say about this, but for me the difference is HUGE. Someone, for example, said that 1squirt of the Methyl B12 Oil was equal to 10-15mg of sublinguals and this may be about right... the amount in the Ado/Methyl Oil is probably similar. I'm working with that just now.

 

[niki]

Unfortuately, this unpleasant effect can be part of it if your adrenals have not been up to par. I have been schooled by Greg Russell-Jones, the B-12 Oils guy who is a PhD in Biochemistry, and it's his opinion that it's adrenal precursors that get built up in your glands that the B12 stimulates. All I can suggest is going very slow. Your body apparently needs to get beyond this point to settle down. In any case, that is no longer the issue with me. Now it's high potassium and folate needs. Things do move along if we prod them. Just be gentle...

Also, molybdenum was extremely important to me and going forward. I literally stopped most other supps and titrated up. I had terrible black insomnia, missed a family vacation to France, and ended up getting atrial fibrillation and ended up in the ER when I added MeB12 back in (I believe because I was so deficient--it was as if my body was like, "I need this stuff and you're going to give me this tiny amount--portion of a sublingual?"). Interestingly, as I've gotten my body more attuned to the methylation supplements, I find I can tolerate many other supplements both more and better than I could in the past. I was really the Princess and the Half-Pea, as my bro-in-law called me...!

Thanks for the reply! I can't tell if I replied here or in my head...but I did receive B12 oils after doing some reading here (thanks to all who have shared!). Actually I ordered the B-Group! I'm not 100% sure but I think it may actually be making me sleepy- which is an all time first if related to using the topical. Maybe it's low dose enough to not hit my system like a train wreck. If you don't mind me asking, what did you start with to get things going (aside from your unfortunate MeB12 incident Maybe I should try Molybdenum as I've heard it helps with histamine issues as well... I just thought I read a down side to Molbd as well. I guess everything has a good and bad depending on the context of your body's needs!

Thanks again

 

[Kathevans]

Many things have hit me with exhaustion when I tried the first drop or some other tiny amount. Only as I titrate up and my body begin, most likely, not to need it as much, does that dissipate. This is all a tricky business. At any rate, as you start either Fred's protocol or the simplified methylation protocol, there are basics that ought to be in place. The SMP basics are on this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/sustained-release-methylation-protocol-srmp.36344/ compiled by Sherpa. Fred's is right at the beginning of the basic methylation thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/active-b12-protocol-basics.10138/

The information on these threads is invaluable and your wouldn't want to dive in without reading them.

 

[niki]

That's perfect thank you! I was having some issues navigating the forum and I couldn't find Fred's protocol - thanks so much!! Low and slow I Go!

 

[LynnJ]

Are those of you taking large doses of B2 at all nervous for your eyes? Some research has linked large amounts of B2 to developing eye problems if you don't take precautions like wearing sunglasses.

For example: "A potentially dangerous combination would be the consumption of high-dose vitamin B2 (riboflavin) which increases the sensitivity of the retina and sclera to blue light damage. [Experimental Eye Research Oct 2015]

Exposure to blue light and riboflavin has been experimentally shown to break down the vitreous gel that fills the center of the eyes and can possibly induce floaters, clumps of protein that interfere with the passage of light to the retina. [Experimental Eye Research June 1987]"

I'm terrified of making my eye floaters worse. Right now, I'm taking 10mg of Riboflavin-5-Phosphate, once per day. I had reached out to the B12 oils website, and they said they think I might have a functional vitamin B2 deficiency due to the problems I discussed with them.

I was having shortness of breath from my B12 and folinic acid that potassium suddenly wasn't helping. Adding in the B2 does seem to have helped matters. So I'm giving it another shot! I have no clue how long I may have had a functional B2 deficiency. I mean, I was supplementing with B12 only (and then B12 with folinic only) for quite some time...eek.

I did try taking a few different B-Complexes over the years, but I was never SUPER consistent with them, y'know?

I'm not taking any iodine/selenium/molybdenum at the moment. Should I add that in? I'm wondering if instead of buying them separately, a kelp supplement could suffice?

 

[Little Bluestem]

Maybe I should try Molybdenum as I've heard it helps with histamine issues as well... I just thought I read a down side to Molbd as well.

Molybdenum is one of those things where if some is good more is not better. As long as you take no more than 300 mcg/day in divided doses (2 X 150 mcg or 3 X 100 mcg), you should be OK. As usual: start low, go slow.

Manganese may also be needed with B2.

 

[niki]

Thank you! Funny as I've been having awful issues with sulphur, Im gassy and smell of sulphur and read that if detoxing neuro toxins chemicals/metals (I was poisoned and the government covered it up- while trying to heal my methylation) that when glutathione binds to toxins sulphites are generated that need to be removed from the body and molybdenum does this. I also read it chelates copper and I'm deficient in bioavailable so I don't want to do that. I may do two small doses and then take my bioavailable copper in the morning as I have zinc at night. Phew.. nothing is easy! Thank you again as I've been conflicted sorting this all out!

 

[carpetbomber]

Hi Dreambirdie - this thread has run away with me and i only just found your post!
The nightmares relate to a very very evil man who is trying to kill me and those around me. In this instance i actually thought in my dream -'oh my god - not the serial killer again!' he dosent kill me but is very very menacing and chases me around on buses etc. In one dream he sliced womens heads opn with some kind of an electric band saw while they were alive - it was so nasty ans distressing. Sometimes there is a nasty sexual nature to his antics. I am very very afraid of him. Do you know the story of bluebeard? i think that tells me something about my psyche in terms of this nightmare. Anyway - i had it a lot when i was severely ill, then as my sleep and health improved it went away. The only times it has come back has been when i have taken the B2 - weird eh?

Ah I think I crossed paths with your B2 serial killer friend a couple of times this week since starting on B2.

He tends to visit and hang around when my body is feeling very weak and heavy: usually a symptom that I need to take a crumb or two of methylfolate. Since I started taking a crumb of methylfolate before going to sleep I've had no visits from the industrious psychopath.

It seems pretty clear so far that B2 increases my need for methylfolate substantially: I'm up to several tiny crumbs a day now which is roughly what I'd normally take in a month.

 

[Kathevans]

I definitely had an issue with nightmares when I started B2, and there were times when there was someone chasing me and trying to kill me. Of course, this has to be a standard trope, but I always thought it had to do with feeling vulnerable and out of control. Then too, maybe there's a very primitive 'survival' section of the brain that gets stimulated by B2. IT is supposed to be very important. Remember Asklipia's story, I think it was, about the bear catching salmon and if he is largely sated, it's the eyes and skin he eats...eyes for the B2, skin for the fat. Hmmm!

 

[niki]

Ah I think I crossed paths with your B2 serial killer friend a couple of times this week since starting on B2.

He tends to visit and hang around when my body is feeling very weak and heavy: usually a symptom that I need to take a crumb or two of methylfolate. Since I started taking a crumb of methylfolate before going to sleep I've had no visits from the industrious psychopath.

It seems pretty clear so far that B2 increases my need for methylfolate substantially: I'm up to several tiny crumbs a day now which is roughly what I'd normally take in a month.

Interesting, I relate to this, however for me, Methyls cause the nightmares as I have methyl jams which result in adrenaline release during sleep, if I'm lucky enough to sleep, I have nightmares. I didn't know that nightmares weren't a normal nightly thing for everyone for over a decade. I upped my B2 (open cap so about 5-6mg) two days ago and my heart started racing/pounding that night which resulted in little to no sleep. No sleep = cascading symptoms so it's interesting to learn how impactful B2 can be at such a low dose. Although I'm hyper sensitive.... I wish I could find something to offset this but still get the B2 in me!

 

[Kathevans]

I upped my B2 (open cap so about 5-6mg) two days ago and my heart started racing/pounding that night which resulted in little to no sleep. No sleep = cascading symptoms so it's interesting to learn how impactful B2 can be at such a low dose. Although I'm hyper sensitive.... I wish I could find something to offset this but still get the B2 in me!

I've always been hyper-sensitive, too, as I know many of us are. I still consider myself to be, though if I mentioned my dosages right now, you'd swear I wasn't! I have largely come round to believing in Fred's refeeding syndrome, as I know I've said somewhere, if not here. For me, the pounding heart- and initially it was atrial fibrillation--occurred when I introduced MeB12. I broke up one of those 1mg sublinguals and put it under my lip. The next morning after waking, my heart went crazy and I ended up in the ER. Fortunately, it did resolve easily, that is, without further medication, and I went on to slowly titrate up. This is almost two years ago now. This happened one other time--the whole ER thing--when I'd stopped the B12 in confusion, and was trying to sort things out. That was when I knew that I should NOT stop the B12! Greg Russel-Jones of B12 Oils, says the body likes consistency. Not that I've been consistent.

For me, now, the rapid heartbeat, which tends to be a brief tachychardia,means I need more Folate, or more B12 in my body to receive the Folate I'm taking. And I seem to be chasing headaches and pain, not to mention the insomnia that has been my constant companion these long years.

Good luck to you... And, Niki, it occurs to me to ask whether you've had any testing such as the NutrEval or OAT done to check not only your need for the Bs, but for levels of such things as the molybdenum, selenium, iodine that B2 requires? I stopped and started B2, never feeling particularly good on it until I got those elements right...or better. I missed family vacation last year to titrate up on molybdenum. This one was a terrible time of black insomnia. But I believe I'm better for it...even if I've worked my way into other deficiencies. Remember, when we are that sick, it isn't about one thing.

 

[winston]

Currently 1 squirt Adenosyl/Methyl Oil, 1 squirt Methyl Oil and assorted extra tablets to cover gaps. According to Greg, the amounts in the Oils are: 1.8 mg ado, 0.7 mg meB12 in the combined product; 0.75 mg meB12 in the methyl product. But remember, the amount absorbed in the oils is said to be as high as 80%, whereas with the sublinguals it's only 5-10%, I think I recall. Read the Transdermal Oils thread to see what others have to say about this, but for me the difference is HUGE. Someone, for example, said that 1squirt of the Methyl B12 Oil was equal to 10-15mg of sublinguals and this may be about right... the amount in the Ado/Methyl Oil is probably similar. I'm working with that just now.

Does Gregory Russell jones still have his B12 transdermal oils I Australia? I tried to order and could not. Please let me know. I have been on them for awhile.

 

[winston]

Does the B12 oil in Australia still in business? I could not order any today. Do they have a new email.

 

[CCC]

I hope it's just a server error. He probably doesn't even know.

It's Sunday here - so no one will be at work to check it.