B2 I love you!

[SJB944]

Has anyone found that taking B2 actually causes b2 deficiency symptoms -- cracked sore lips, mouth ulcers, sore eyes etc?

 

[Lou]

Has anyone found that taking B2 actually causes b2 deficiency symptoms -- cracked sore lips, mouth ulcers, sore eyes etc?

I haven't heard of that, but wonder if the amount you are taking is depleting other b vitamins, perhaps with similar symtoms. For instance, b12 deficiency can cause a sore tongue. Hope you figure this out.

 

[Asklipia]

Has anyone found that taking B2 actually causes b2 deficiency symptoms -- cracked sore lips, mouth ulcers, sore eyes etc?

Yes. We both found this. This is why it is a good idea to start slowly. I found that in a way, taking more B2 starts processes which are B2 dependent and were dormant because of the lack of available B2. Once these processes are started, there is an extra need for B2, hence B2 deficiency symptoms.

I found that what worked best was to supply a continuous supply of small B2 doses all day long, that is approximately every 1 1/2 hours (minimum between doses 1 hour). Small doses around 12,5 mg or less (dosing not always very accurate because of the difficulty in cutting up tablets). The more takes the better.
Working like this :
1st week : 12,5 mg a day
2nd week : 25 mg a day at least in two takes.
then progressing.

For the mouth problems, I found oil pulling for a few days was an immediate cure.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ic-technique-for-oral-and-sinus-issues.18433/
For eye problems, they were solved with this:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-31#post-298525

We started this 28 weeks ago and reached 75 mg a day after 15 weeks. So for the last 13 weeks we stuck to that dosage. For the last 2 weeks now there is no sign of yellow pee anymore, a sign most probably that all the riboflavin is being used. So we are going to move to 100 mg.

Lots of good wishes!
Be well!
Asklipia
FFP

 

[SJB944]

That's interesting Asklipia, I have built up slowly and currently taking about 15mg (Active form) a day, broken up into three lots. These symptoms only occurred after about 3 months and after I stopped taking B6 (P5P).

Initially I took too much and had all sorts of awful symptoms, but otherwise I haven't noticed and benefit from taking B2 after having introduced it more slowly.

I've introduced a little B6 to see if that has an impact on the cracked lips etc. I'm more inclined to go back to taking a B-complex and adding additional B2 to makes sure other B's a covered -- this was Rich's suggestion. (I am taking B12, Lou, but will play around with this also).

I may also break up the B2 I'm taking into more does during the day. As with all of this: it's all trial and error.

 

[Asklipia]

As with all of this: it's all trial and error.

Indeed!
I have found that taking B12 was helpful but it did increase the need for B2, by bursts strangely.
B6 the same.
Maybe taking a mix of Bs + extra B2 is a good idea. Please let us know how it turns out!

 

[kelly138]

this has been an interesting thread to read - now I need to read the hair test thread

I suspect I have iron overload - blood has been drawn - waiting for results later this upcoming week.

I have some old hair tests - one thing I noticed in reading them a week or so again was a mention of possible iron overload based on chromium information but it wasn't until I was taking bentonite this summer and using it for baths too I got extra metallic tastes (have had some for years) and lots of liver pain

 

[Asklipia]

32 weeks into B2/Manganese
Update from post #619 in bold the new observations

Still taking 75 to 100 mg B2 + 10 mg Manganese chelated OR 1 teaspoon WaterOz ionic Manganese every day.
No other supplements except :
- daily: 15 mg Menatetrenone (MK-4) with breakfast- changed to 15 mg only on Thursdays and Sundays; changed this because we cannot go and sunbathe anymore. Vit D testing gives 40 even after extensive sunbathing this summer. The menatetrenone must be eating it all up. Since I prefer not to take supplementation of Vit D, I prefer to slow down on MK-4 until next spring. Melatonin 3 mg + Zinc 8.7 mg + Selenium 50 mcg (these last three in the same preparation at night).
- on Sundays : 3 mg adb12 - none anymore
- Enzymatic Therapy 1 mg mb12 three times a week - None for the last two weeks. I ran out of it and will try without for a while to see if it really matters now. For the moment no bad results from stopping it.
So no B12 supplemented for the last month.

What I notice compared to 4 weeks ago when I was 28 weeks into this protocol:

- I seem to breathe through my right nostril much more often (the nostril was not blocked but I was not using it). Also now lots of hairs are growing in there!!! - same
- on husband's bald patch on top of his head new hairs are growing! No more extra hairs :-(
- husband feeling cold in his toes : totally gone for the last three weeks- same
- I have seen two coin sized brownish areas appear on my jaw, where my teeth used to have amalgams (long removed). Not nice! But one has started to fade so there is hope. Nearly three quarters gone; completely gone; Arghh! They are back! Maybe from a further detox of mercury in that jaw.

- husband says many floaters have disappeared
- my eyes : the myopia went down further to -2, and absolutely no astigmatism left. This lasted for two weeks. Then it crept back to -12.5 (approx.) and same astigmatism I had before.; change : two weeks ago, eyes were suddenly went strange : blurry vision then they were hurting like hell, as though there was acid coming from a specific point under the eyelid. Awful for at least a week. I stayed in the dark praying, doing Bains Derivatifs three times a day, taking cold showers. Then progressively the burning feeling went away. No astigmatism left. And it did not come back yet. Myopia down to -2. Can read without glasses no problem. Every two days or so, feeling something burning is coming out in the same way but it is not so bad. Eyes still at -2 myopia. Last night a terrible pain in the right eye, like acid coming into it. But in the morning it was completely normal.

- I have felt my normal self again!!!!!! And it lasted for three weeks this time! This is the first time it ever lasted that long! Understood lots of stuff about my past! Blasts from the Past. I am so happy! Still feeling my normal self!

- For the first time in more than 15 years we both caught a kind of flu. Sick like dogs blowing our noses!!! We were so happy under our quilt just being sick ..... Normally sick.... Something is certainly happening with the immunity response.... Back to normal it seems!

Lots of love to all,
Asklipia
FFP

 

[arx]

Has anyone found that taking B2 actually causes b2 deficiency symptoms -- cracked sore lips, mouth ulcers, sore eyes etc?

Sounds much like B12 startup. When you take it, symptoms increase in number and intensity because the processes which require B12 awaken, requiring things like potassium and other cofactors.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Christine told me to take B1 and manganese with the B2. She said as soon as a B12 deficiency showed up to begin taking B12. If you are not taking any of these, you could see if taking them helped.

 

[SJB944]

Was taking B12. Have stopped taking b2 and started a b-complex and lips have healed somewhat. Will introduce b2 again and see what happens.

Never had this sort of symptoms from Methylation start up.

 

[brenda]

Hi

I have had numerous messages asking about Christine Heubner or Dog Person. She said she was taking a long vacation last summer and has not as far as I know, been heard of since, and her web site seems to be down. There were mentions of a serious illness.

A number of us followed her protocol but as time went on, had our supplements reduced to just manganese, which most of us found, had to be discontinued due to adverse symptoms. I was concerned that stored iron was being released too quickly for my body to detox so I stopped the manganese but am back to taking b2.

She ended up taking on too many of us but I do believe she was on to something important but did not have enough expertise to help us. Its a pity that her ideas were not able to be investigated more fully here.

I would not recomend anyone to take up with her however as she proved difficult to deal with and thought too much along the one size fits all.

 

[Lotus97]

Sweating

Brenda,

I saw your post that you are sweating. This is not necessarily a good thing. You are correct in saying that your body is now working at rebalancing your system but I want you to do it safely. The sweating can mean any of three things. One is that you are removing too many metals to fast from storage locations back into the blood stream. Your body may not be able to produce enough radical quelching systems to keep up with this quantity. Two is that you are placing too much iron and copper in the bloodstream and the liver still can not adequately produce enough carrier proteins so your unbound minerals can also be free radicals. The body may be attempting to place them into sweat for removal since the bloodstream can be overwhelmed. This can place you in a high cancer trend due to the radicals causing damage to cellular DNA.

Second, it can mean that you are not running the energy system forward to produce ATP. Instead it is going backwards, and releasing the imcomplete energy as heat in stead of ATP. Like what bears do with they hybernate - they do not produce energy because they do not need it, instead they need heat so they use uncoupling proteins to release that energy as heat.

I suggest you lower your amount of B2. Allow it to balance the other B's that you are eating in foods so they can work in synergy.

Since I've been having health problems these past few months I've noticed that when I'm sitting at a computer I get really hot, but then when I lay down I cool off. I was wondering what was going on and although I don't want to jump to any conclusions this gives me something to think about.

 

[dbkita]

I am really confused here ... almost 50% of all energy generated by the Krebs cycle is used for thermogenesis to maintain thermal homeostasis. How can you run the Krebs cycle backwards. People with problems with themal homeostasis usually have metabolic or immune system issues which involve energy producing parts of the body whether they be norepinephrine production (heat), lack of thyroid hormone (cold), hyperthyroid (heat), low ATP functionality (poor regulation), etc.

 

[Asklipia]

Just an observation :
After more than 40 weeks on b2, we definitely have a strong change in the immune system.
Apart from a very strong feeling that something very general and important has been 'fixed', and a continuous feeling for the last two months that we are our 'normal selves' again, warts are falling off, some small skin problems have disappeared.
Since this is happening at the same time as the return of breathing equally from both nostrils, a sign of parasympathetic/ sympathetic balance, I take it it is a sign of a return of the th1/th2 balance, which depends on circadian rhythms.
A lot of our problems were due to this deficiency in th1. The predominance of th2 was not improved with vitamin K2. it seems this was solved by b2 supplementation, b2 being the food of the parasympathetic.
More than ever I am convinced that our problem was one of parasympathetic / sympathetic imbalance due to stimulants forced on us from all around ( chemical such as MSG, visual, audio etc) , in which I include of course disturbances in the circadian rhythm.

I think b2 took a very important part in the bringing of the two sides into balance, together with the avoidance of excitotoxins.
Most probably the resurgence of our th1 immunity helped us to get rid of some 'mycoplasma' or other, so now we feel normal, not sick, intuitively RID of something that we has to suffer from day to day. Some damage is left, but it is now no problem to address the damage, we have strength and hope.
Good luck to all
Asklipia

 

[Jarod]

Hi there
Asklipia

Do you do anything to monitor your mineral intake? I took a test that showed I was high in selenium so I decided to quit selenium.

I respond really well with manganese but am concerned about overloading. You worried about getting too much manganese, or do anything to monitor that?

Do you prefer any particular brand of B2?

Thanks!

 

[Lotus97]

I am really confused here ... almost 50% of all energy generated by the Krebs cycle is used for thermogenesis to maintain thermal homeostasis. How can you run the Krebs cycle backwards. People with problems with themal homeostasis usually have metabolic or immune system issues which involve energy producing parts of the body whether they be norepinephrine production (heat), lack of thyroid hormone (cold), hyperthyroid (heat), low ATP functionality (poor regulation), etc.

Hmm, this does seem to explain my situation better than the post I quoted earlier.

 

[Asklipia]

Hi there
Asklipia

Do you do anything to monitor your mineral intake? I took a test that showed I was high in selenium so I decided to quit selenium.

I respond really well with manganese but am concerned about overloading. You worried about getting too much manganese, or do anything to monitor that?

Do you prefer any particular brand of B2?

Thanks!

Hi Jarod,
No I don't do anything to monitor my mineral intake. We live in a place where no testing is possible so testing is down to basics when we travel to a place with a hospital and stay there long enough.
But from time to time I test with a pendulum to check if I really need 'this'.
For the moment I am not concerned about too much manganese, as things keep steadily improving.
But yesterday we decided to take a break from the melatonin-zinc-selenium supplement for a month, as recommended by the doctor who formulated it (a one-month break every 5 months), and we slept perfectly.

As to which B2, we have taken all kinds of different brands all along, nothing worked better or worse, so for us the cheapest is best.
At present this is in Bangkok, a big box of 1000 pills, 50 mg each, nicely shaped so you can cut them in half for 800 bahts, that is USD 26.
We did not take the co-factors because of the b3 in it. We followed DogPerson's idea that other Bs deplete B2. And now that I suspect than it is partly about reinforcing parasympathetic activity, I suppose it was a good idea.
Good luck and be well!
Asklipia

 

[Lotus97]

Is there any other information out there about other B vitamins depleting B2 besides dogperson's theory? And was there ever a ratio recommended. It seems like all the B vitamins are important for various functions in the body.

 

[Little Bluestem]

We followed DogPerson's idea that other Bs deplete B2. And now that I suspect than it is partly about reinforcing parasympathetic activity, I suppose it was a good idea.
Good luck and be well!
Asklipia

Are you still taking no other B vitamins?

Dog Person had me take B1 with the B2 (I literally mix them in the same capsule) from the beginning. She also said to get 400 mcg/day of folate from food.

She told me to start taking B12 as soon as I noticed a deficiency, which was, as she expected, in a few days. She said to take enough to keep my urine dark yellow because it takes a lot of B12 to put iron in hemoglobin.

She said I would add B6 later, but we never got that for (together, I am taking B6). She said no more than 300% of the daily requirement of B6.

I realize that you are not me, but the conventional wisdom is that it is not good to supplement just one B vitamin.

 

[Asklipia]

Are you still taking no other B vitamins?

Dog Person had me take B1 with the B2 (I literally mix them in the same capsule) from the beginning. She also said to get 400 mcg/day of folate from food.

She told me to start taking B12 as soon as I noticed a deficiency, which was, as she expected, in a few days. She said to take enough to keep my urine dark yellow because it takes a lot of B12 to put iron in hemoglobin.

She said I would add B6 later, but we never got that for (together, I am taking B6). She said no more than 300% of the daily requirement of B6.

I realize that you are not me, but the conventional wisdom is that it is not good to supplement just one B vitamin.

We are not taking other b vitamins at present.
In the beginning we were taking some adb12 and some methylb12. However, this made us more manic, did not feel right at all after an initial high so we stopped. A couple of months ago, we introduced briefly some b1, but it made us feel tense and aggressive, but did not provide more energy.
We eat very well though and I am sure we are getting enough Bs in general, as much certainly as healthy people who are not supplementing get in their food. We eat home made kefir half of the year and take one month of royal jelly twice a year. Loads of Bs supposed to be in both.

One of the reasons we stuck to the b2 alone is that it seems to have a good effect on us, the other is that at one point we were taking Neurobion, a supplement including B1-B6-B12, and this was not helpful at all.

If B2 is necessary for the absorption of other B vitamins, even not taking extra other b vitamins, I suppose you could increase them by just taking b2, as long as you ate properly.
B1 is supposed to help with myopia and the sympathetic system, but I see better from far just on B2 . I don't understand why. When I tried taking B1 to help with my myopia it did not seem to help.

As to folate, since we do not, absolutely not, take any fake folates, there is no point in supplementing any, they are everywhere, even in meat. They supply the B9.

I have posted on this thread many times exactly what we did in the hope that it can help someone one day.
As soon as something catastrophic happens, I promise I shall post.
For the moment, it seems alright for us both.
Good luck and best wishes!
Asklipia