B2 I love you!

[Dog Person]

All evidence indicates that flavin mononucleotide (FMN; which means it is phosphorylated) is not absorbed, but converted (hydrolyzed) to free riboflavin before absorption. Therefore consuming FMN is of no benefit.

Also, 25 mg seems to be the upper limit one can absorb at any one time, so taking more than 25 mg at one time would apparently not lead to greater absorption of riboflavin.

 

[Dog Person]

Feeling Tired

You can feel very tired when first starting with B2. Why? Because from your symptoms of low ferritin coupled with the nail ridges, thining and indents, it sounds like very little of your liver is/was working correctly. Thus, you may have accumulated a considerable amount of heavy metals. Your body can substitute mercury for copper, and lead, aluminum, nickel for iron and cadium for calcium. As soon as your body starts using the correct minerals from the liver when you add B2, the body then wants to rid itself of the heavy metals; as it no longer needs them. But as they come out of tissues and re-enter the bloodstream, they can disrupt the energy system considerably. Thus you can feel very tired. They can also cause may other symptoms. This is yet another reason I caution anyone from starting with high doses of B2.

 

[brenda]

Many thanks Dog Person for all the time and energy you are so kindly giving, very interesting information indeed. It is remarkable what this vitamin does. I have been having psychriatric symptoms and what I thought was the onset of Lyme dementia so it will be interesting to see if they go. Can I ask you to break your paragraphs up more as we have trouble reading long blocks of writing. Thanks.


Last night I took an extra 12.5mg before bed making 50mg in all through the day and I had a good night feeling better than a long time on waking having slept a solid 6 hours and feeling relaxed and sleepy, whereas beforehand I was feeling unrefreshed stiff and tense. I am feeling increasingly better all round though the pain in my hands has not improved but the pain in my knee has.

Also, very good news, there was some sweating underarm. As I have great trouble detoxing, this is a very good sign indeed and I only get it when I am coming up from a relapse so it looks like I am indeed starting to detox.

This is the most definite response I have ever had to a supplement. It is quite miraculous. I did stop my B complex and all other supplements about a week before I started B2, and folic acid from food sources was cut right back. I dont know whether this has made a difference.

Brenda

Rand are you eating anything fortified with folic acid? I think that I have a large store of iron in my liver.

 

[dannybex]

I've read preliminary studies/reports that suggest that b2 also helps with night blindness and sensitivity to light, but have also read the opposite -- that b2 in excess can worsen eye problems.

???

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitamins_and_calcium_supplements/page12.htm

"Is there such a thing as too much riboflavin?

"No Tolerable Upper Limit (UL) has been set for riboflavin. Possible reactions to very high doses include burning/prickling sensations, itching, numbness, and yellow discoloration of the urine. There is also a possibility that riboflavin's photosensitizing (sensitivity to light) properties can pose health risks."

The above example is quite vague, but I'm pretty sure I've read similar concerns elsewhere.

Since many of us have problems with both night vision and extreme sensitivity to light, I thought I should mention it. Hopefully others can clarify the matter.

d.

 

[Rand56]

Brenda

No, I've given up on having any food with fortified folic acid.

 

[Rand56]

Dog Person

Do you know if high dose methylfolate will deplete B-2 stores? I'm taking Deplin size dosages for my depression...15mg.

 

[brenda]

These are the instructions that Dog Person gave me. I dont know whether they are directly related to my personal needs or whether they can be considered as a protocol for anyone. We will have to wait for further communications from her.


db Thanks and yes we need to look into this.

 

[Rand56]

"Please do not supplement anything else from your list. Most important that you not take the vitamin D and Vitamin C you listed.These were dramatically depleting your B2."

Interesting. Maybe this is why I felt even worse when supplementing extra vitamins D & C....although getting my D from sunshine is good for me. Always felt worse too after eating peanut butter, although it sure did taste good going down LOL. I guess the old saying "eat an apple a day keeps the doctor away" has some merit to it LOL

 

[Rand56]

Here is a good review article on B-2. Scrolling down the page more you will see a section of its interactions with folate, B-6, and B-12.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/77/6/1352.full

I find this quite interesting from the website above.....

"Homocysteine is metabolized through 2 main routes, transsulfuration, which is vitamin B-6 dependent, and remethylation to methionine, which is folate, vitamin B-12, and riboflavin dependent. Most attention has been directed toward the importance of folate, which is a strong independent predictor of plasma homocysteine and which has homocysteine-lowering activity (124). Supplementary vitamin B-12 has modest homocysteine-lowering effects under certain circumstances (124), whereas reports of the effects of supplementary vitamin B-6 are inconsistent (125, 126). Riboflavin has been largely ignored, despite the fact that FAD is a cofactor for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (EC 1.7.99.5), which metabolizes folate to the form used in homocysteine methylation."

Remembering from what Dog Person said earlier in that we don't need high amounts of B-6, and knowing if you do take higher amounts of it will deplete B-2 even more, and concluding from this statement above that Riboflavin is important in lowering HCY.....I wonder if people would be doing themselves a favor by ditching the higher doses of B-6 and replace it with Riboflavin instead if they are trying to lower HCY.

 

[adreno]

"Riboflavin has been largely ignored, despite the fact that FAD is a cofactor for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (EC 1.7.99.5), which metabolizes folate to the form used in homocysteine methylation."

The thing is, you don't need B2 to activate/metabolize methylfolate. It's already activated/metabolized.

 

[Adster]

"Riboflavin has been largely ignored, despite the fact that FAD is a cofactor for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (EC 1.7.99.5), which metabolizes folate to the form used in homocysteine methylation."

The thing is, you don't need B2 to activate/metabolize methylfolate. It's already activated/metabolized.

Food sources of folate still need to be activated I think. I may be wrong, but was there some speculation that inactive folates from food competed with methyfolates?

 

[Rand56]

"Riboflavin has been largely ignored, despite the fact that FAD is a cofactor for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (EC 1.7.99.5), which metabolizes folate to the form used in homocysteine methylation."

The thing is, you don't need B2 to activate/metabolize methylfolate. It's already activated/metabolized.

This is true, although if someone is deficient in B-2 it could help in metabolizing folic acid or folinic that one gets in their diet.

 

[adreno]

This is true, although if someone is deficient in B-2 it could help in metabolizing folic acid or folinic that one gets in their diet.

Right. But I don't see a mechanism by which methylfolate (or methylcobalamin) can deplete B2.

 

[Rand56]

Right. But I don't see a mechanism by which methylfolate (or methylcobalamin) can deplete B2.

I sure hope this is the case because I am taking 15mg per day of methylfolate for my depression LOL

 

[brenda]

Please ignore my previous post explaining the protocol. I should not have put it on.

 

[Rand56]

Please ignore my previous post explaining the protocol. I should not have put it on.

Why Brenda? Is it tailored only to your own particular case?

 

[Pea]

thank you so much, Dog Person.

If somebody has liver pain, what does that mean - they are holding on to metals?

I'm curious about the C & D connection.
(I did read else where that peanut butter raises acetylcholine levels)

 

[brenda]

Rand pm sent

 

[Dreambirdie]

Dog Person--

I have been reading a couple of the B2 threads, and have not yet seen a clear protocol about how much of what to take when. From what Brenda has written, I assume the dose of B2 should be 12.5 mg/meal, but I am not clear if this is a dose relevant just for her or if it is a good dose for anyone who (according to your reading of hair mineral tests) has the B2 deficiency.

I have also read that it's inadvisable to take any other B vitamins... except B12 and possibly B1--at only 6.25 mg/day, as you told me. This means NO B complex, or folic acid of any kind, or B6... correct?

I am also reading that one should not take any vitamin C or vitamin D, which I am rather surprised to see. I take both regularly--daily.

I began taking B2 last night, but after only one dose I do not feel much of a change. I imagine it will take a while before I do. I have also attempting to take a small dose of my B1--breaking off a smidge from the 100 mg tablet. I ordered some Source Naturals, Coenzymated B-1, which are a 16 mg dose/pill. This will be much easier to slice into halves.

I am hoping that you will clarify the protocol some time soon.

 

[brenda]

I repeat again, please disregard everything I said previously (removed). It is a protocol produced for me and is not to be followed by others. I am sorry that it was not clear enough and some have started it.

Dog Person has said that she is writing a paper and it will be explained fully there. Please wait until this paper is produced. She is busy with it and I thought I was helping by putting on the protocol I have been given but I was wrong and should not have put it on as confusions have occured and some have started it.

Please note that it was shown that I have a definite deficiency.