Anyone else have a massive improvement from Tyrosine?

[drob31]

View attachment 25242

Is this suggesting tyrosine is involved in the ONOO cycle?

 

[percyval577]

It's a very tricky thing to reach a conclusion about. There is a possiblity that some of the theraputic effects of tyrosine and phenylalanine is caused by the effect they have on tryptophan. But like i say it's hard to reach a conclusion about these things. But hey if it works do it!

I happend to try them almost at same time. First tryptophan 250mg, which for two days was nice, I even could do some yoga (with sense), but after a week my head suddenly got heavy, and this lasted for about six weeks.

Still being heavy in my head I switched to Tyrosine 500mg, testing this out of none information as it was. Well, nothing happend but I carried on. After about eight days it was nice. This effect might have never changed remarkably, but I cannot tell for shure as I am improving and everything is changing forth and around quit short termend.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is this suggesting tyrosine is involved in the ONOO cycle?

It shows that ONOO degrades tyrosine. The degradation is 100% avoided with vitamin C. The other anti-oxidants help too as shown: Melatonin avoids degradation at a 11% rate.

 

[AnkeC]

I found tyrosine to be uplifting and energising.... for two days.... then I dropped into the deepest pit of despair. It was very weird. Doing stuff because I have the energy, motivation and clarity of thought.....then suddenly bursting into tears, absolutely inconsolable.... while continuing with my activity. Could absolutely not control the misery, so I had to stop. Tried it on a few different occasion, with different preparations... same story every time. Very frustrating.

VHR Taq +/+
MTHFR A1298C +/-
MTRR A66G +/-
CBS C699T +/-
SHMT1 C1420T +/+
That I know of...

 

[Manders]

I found tyrosine to be uplifting and energising.... for two days.... then I dropped into the deepest pit of despair. It was very weird. Doing stuff because I have the energy, motivation and clarity of thought.....then suddenly bursting into tears, absolutely inconsolable.... while continuing with my activity. Could absolutely not control the misery, so I had to stop. Tried it on a few different occasion, with different preparations... same story every time. Very frustrating.

VHR Taq +/+
MTHFR A1298C +/-
MTRR A66G +/-
CBS C699T +/-
SHMT1 C1420T +/+
That I know of...

Hi @AnkeC, I'm having mixed results with my tyrosine. Did you have neurotransmitter or amino acid testing prior to check for deficiencies? I'm showing very low phenyalanine, and low tyrosine, so I supplement with both, which is helping with mood, but leaves me feeling a bit brain dead. Adding in D-ribose helps increase energy and attention, but then also increases my anxiety a bit (at times). My 5-HIAA and tryptophan were both really high, which I think is causing my bursts of anxiety (too much serotonin), so I have to be careful to not supplement with something that increases serotonin, or it makes me a mess.

Alternately, my daughter had really low 5-HIAA (serotonin metabolite), so we added in 5-HTP. She did well for about 2 months, then started feeling low again. Added in the tyrosine two weeks ago, and voila! much happier kid. Tyrosine multiple days in a row was creating some mood issues (we think), so we've backed off of it. Planning on tyrosine once a week, and re-adjusting from there.

I vaguely recall reading something about serotonin and dopamine being a balancing act, if you bring one up it can bring the other one down. My daughter's tyrosine was lowish too, so I'm wondering if supplementing the 5-HTP reduced her dopamine. Either way, she's doing a lot better now, although I feel like I'm still missing a piece of the (neurotransmitter) puzzle for myself. I had the Genova ION testing, and she did Great Plains OAT, and they both show neurotransmitter metabolites.

Also, when I had the test done two years ago, I started up with phenylalanine, and felt fantastic for two days, lots of energy, great mood, etc. After those two days it did nothing for me. I've ordered a gut microbiome kit to see what my gut bacteria are doing, since 90% of serotonin production originates in the gut: http://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin-gut-46495.

 

[DogLover]

Such mixed reviews on amino acids! One source says they work great and another says they don't do a thing.

Comments I often see...
They only work for a short time until your system goes back into stasis.
You've got to take tyrosine AND tryptophan to keep a balance.
These things are dangerous and you should go see a doctor.

It's hard to get a handle on the amino acid thing. A good source similar to the pheonix/methylation forum would be awesome.

 

[Learner1]

The best way to know what YOU need, and not what anyone else needs, is to get tested - an amino acid panel can be done by many conventional labs.

There is ME/CFS research that suggests:

• We may be burning amino acids for fuel, and have a higher need than normal people.
• We may need more tyrosine than most people
• Tryptopan may trigger a metabolic trap in people with certain genes
• Arginine may be supportive of herpes family viruses while lysine may be protective.

I have found I need to supplement glycine, lysine, tyrosine, n-acetyl-cysteine, ornithine, citrulline, asparagine, and methionine. And that glutathione and BCAAs (leucine, isoleucine, and valine) help me reverse/avoid PEM.

 

[DogLover]

The best way to know what YOU need, and not what anyone else needs, is to get tested - an amino acid panel can be done by many conventional labs.

There is ME/CFS research that suggests:

• We may be burning amino acids for fuel, and have a higher need than normal people.
• We may need more tyrosine than most people
• Tryptopan may trigger a metabolic trap in people with certain genes
• Arginine may be supportive of herpes family viruses while lysine may be protective.

I have found I need to supplement glycine, lysine, tyrosine, n-acetyl-cysteine, ornithine, citrulline, asparagine, and methionine. And that glutathione and BCAAs (leucine, isoleucine, and valine) help me reverse/avoid PEM.

Learner1, Thank you for your response!

Questions!
1. So, an amino acid panel tests for amino acids, which are the precursors for neurotransmitters. The theory would be that if you are low in precursors for a neurotransmitter (NT) then you are likely to be low in that NT. (And, beyond that, if you are low in a precursor, then you need to supplement in it whether the NT theory is correct or not.) Correct?

2. If one responds to a SSRI, then wouldn't one be able to assume to generally be low in serotonin precursors?

3. Do you have any anecdotes of someone testing low of X, replacing S, and feeling better? I've done some searching and it isn't an easy find.

 

[Judee]

Tyrosine and Phenylalanine were the lowest on my amino acid panel, but when I supplemented with Tyrosine I felt a bit hyper.

Yep, that's me. Tyrosine makes me feel hyper and I end up developing an annoying eye twitch for days after using it.

Phenylalanine works okay for me (though it doesn't increase my energy at all). If I take it with DMG it seems to calm me and although some people do better on TMG, that makes me feel angry after taking it.

DMG calms me (my mom says the same thing) and very quickly especially when taken with the phenylalanine. Sublingual DMG seems to work best for me but it is getting more difficult to find it that way.

Caution though: phenylalanine can cause high blood pressure.

I drink coffee like mad but it never makes me feel like diet coke used to! If only diet sodas didn't contribute to insulin resistance...

I'm beginning to think a lot of colas use licorice extract as a flavoring agent. I think that's why we get a boost from the cola caffeine and not the coffee caffeine. The MA at my endo's office said it is also used in root beer. (I'm having to wean off of all licorice because it can affect some medical tests I'm having even though it makes me feel better. So no more anything with licorice for me for a while. )

Edit: licorice can also raise your bp and lower your potassium so be careful if you try it. My new endo says it works like the adrenal hormone aldosterone and is looking into why it was helping me but I have to go off of it for her to do that.

 

[Learner1]

Learner1, Thank you for your response!

Questions!
1. So, an amino acid panel tests for amino acids, which are the precursors for neurotransmitters. The theory would be that if you are low in precursors for a neurotransmitter (NT) then you are likely to be low in that NT. (And, beyond that, if you are low in a precursor, then you need to supplement in it whether the NT theory is correct or not.) Correct?

There are other factors which may cone into play, but yes, there can be such a relationship.

I was listless and had virtually no dopamine, and my doctor had me start taking 6g oglf tyrosine, and I felt normal again quickly.

2. If one responds to a SSRI, then wouldn't one be able to assume to be low in tryptophan? (or 5HTP?)

Perhaps. But something like 90% of serotonin is made in the gut, so it may be wise to look at microbiome health first. Especially given Phair's tryptophan metabolic trap hypothesis. Many ME/CFS patients have a history of antibiotic use, have SIBO, mast cell issues and/or celiac or food allergies.

3. Do you have any anecdotes of someone testing low of X, replacing S, and feeling better? I've done some searching and it isn't an easy find.

After testing low, I have taken:

• tyrosine, which reversed lethargy, lack of motivation
• BCAAs, which reversed PEM, or helped me avoid it
• citrulline and ornithine aspartate, ehich helped me through the night

It's a personalized thing, not "one size fits all."

 

[DogLover]

@Learner1

thanks for the feedback. its good to see it helped someone. how long did you take tyrosine? dose?

i too took tyrosine, along with tryptophan and b6. i remember being charged up with a tight energy. it was like a strong caffeine buzz without the jitteriness and it lead to insomnia. in the end i stopped taking it, but i think im going to give it another try while being careful to keep a low dose. if i need to i can taper up.

also, i did not ignore your recommendation for an amino acid test panel. it is something i am looking i to.

 

[Learner1]

I still take tyrosine. I took 6g daily for about 6 months and now take 2-3g.

 

[drob31]

Just to update this thread, I have had a big breakthrough using Vyvanse. I'm on a pretty small dose and it further increases my dopamine and norepinephrine far beyond tyrosine and b6 alone, although I think tyrosine further improves its effect.

I suspect malabsorption has something to do with my low neurotransmitter levels as well as astronomically high serotonin levels. This probably stems from some gut issue as well as possible thyroid involvement.

 

[EddieB]

Just to update this thread, I have had a big breakthrough using Vyvanse.

Could you update on how you’re doing with this? I suspect I have low dopamine levels.

My symptoms revolve around stomach/gut issues. My gastro had me take mirtazapine, because he felt it would balance serotonin. It helped some at first, but then pooped out.[/QUOTE]

 

[Learner1]

Could you update on how you’re doing with this? I suspect I have low dopamine levels.

My symptoms revolve around stomach/gut issues. My gastro had me take mirtazapine, because he felt it would balance serotonin. It helped some at first, but then pooped out.

Working on gut issues is the best way to improve neurotransmitters in the long term.

You might want to look into a Viome test, which gives actionable info on improving your gut with goods to avoid, foods to emphasize and supplements to help.

Drugs deplete nutrients, like folate, etc. that can lead to healthy neurotransmitter production, making your issues worse. You might enjoy the book "new Optimum Nutrition for the Brain" by Patrick Holford.

Tyrosine has helped, and I've been able to reduce it to 500mg-1g a day.

 

[EddieB]

Thank for responding. I’m in a crisis mode with food, there’s only a few things that I’m able to eat. Barely keeping on weight. I did Viome testing twice, not very helpful, maybe okay for someone who isn’t really sick.

Over the years I’ve tried most everything with diet. Eliminating grains, Keto, Palio, fodmap, etc. No success.
Have tried multiple strategies for digestive support, same results. Multiple tests for celiac, allergy, negative.
Everything that should be good for me makes me sicker.

The gastro I’m seeing (as well as previous one) is convinced there is a neurological problem. He talked me (very reluctantly on my part) into trying mirtazapine. No help, but the severe start up and withdrawal has been hell. Messing with brain chemicals has an immediate effect on my worst symptoms. I think he may have been on the right track, but had the wrong train.

I also have suffered for years with severe panic attacks at times. Minor, insignificant stresses can cause a meltdown. Whatever coping/recovery chemistry system I have is broken. The mirtazapine made this worse too.

I talked my GP into doing a amino acids test, I suspect I may be very low on GABA, or some other balancing chemicals. Maybe that crosses over into my digestive issues. Did you have any digestive issues resolve with your supplements?

 

[Learner1]

I'm sorry that you are having such difficulties. I was REALLY sick. First with stage 3 cancer, then with ME/CFS, sleeping 16 hours a day and totally brain fogged. I have vastly improved due to a number of interventions and certainly didn't mean to make light of your problems.

One thing I've learned is that excellent interventions may not work as planned, sometimes because they are done in the wrong order and dependent on other things to happen first.

Given what you've described, nutrient depletion due to malabsorption, as well as increased needs, can also lead to imbalances that can be devilish to work out, but stopping biochemical pathways of pushing them into some unhappy state. This can be the root of a multitude of other problems.

I am not a fan of any psychiatric drug, which do more harm than good. They deplete nutrients and alter the microbiome, and very few psychiatric conditions have much to do with neurotransmitters anyway. (Blasphemy, I know....) Those that do are also related to the gut and nutrients, as 90 percent of serotonin and a good deal of other neurotransmitters originate in the gut.

So, working to solve gastro issues us extremely useful. Trouble is, and I do not say this lightly, I have yet to see any of hundreds of patients get much lasting help from a GI doc. It is vexing, as it is an imperfect science but I think those that best help are functional med docs and they're far from perfect.

Suggestions I can make for places to look, and I've been at this 10 years are:

• Look into mast cell diseases which can truly ruin your life. Lawrence Afrin and Theo Theoharides are the two main experts. Most other docs don't have a clue. Mastcellmaster.com and mastattack.com are good websites.
• Look into oxalates, especially if you've ever been on any kind of antibiotic of other gut-disrupting drug or a diet with lots of glyphosate-treated foods, of have genes for hyperoxaluria. They can deplete minerals and B6 that are cofactors for many important reaction, damage cell walls and mitochondria, and be at the root of a whole lot of health problems.
• Look into all types of allergies, not just IgE. Type 4, IgG, etc. Cyrex Labs has an interesting set of tests that may be helpful.
• Look for parasites and viruses in the gut that can be sneaky and cause a lot of mischief. Conventional gastros don't look very hard for these but specialty tests may find something.
• In the meantime, do a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval FMV with amino acids test, run at the same time with a plasma amino acids panel. This can spot a whole host of nutrient deficiencies and imbalances and trap problems fast addressing them so you can be on your way to health while working the other issues. Their website, gdx.net has a sample test do you can see what it does and you can talk to their billing department to see how it works eihb your insurance. It's available across the US, except NY, and Europe.
• Run a couple of other gut tests like GI Map or GI Effects which may pick up something you've missed.
• Try some tyrosine in the meantime

I'm not a doctor and can't tell exactly what's wrong with you but you sound like you're in a tough spot, and have tried many avenues already. But, I can tell you, something's been missed, and it may be a few somethings. Finding them out can make a huge difference.

Best wishes.

 

[EddieB]

certainly didn't mean to make light of your problems.

I don't feel you did, no apologies necessary. I am just very disappointed with Viome.

I am not a fan of any psychiatric drug, which do more harm than good.

Yeh, that was a mistake and I knew it. I live in a rural area with a limited number of doctors. Unfortunately, if you refuse to cooperate to a point, they just drop you. I’ve been in this situation before, once you get labeled as a “problem” patient, no one will help you.

I’m in process of getting off it. The only take away I have, is how much worse my all symptoms became from it.
Whatever that drug has influence over, has the root of my troubles.

I’m seeing a good immunologist, that has looked into mast cell.

Is there a test for oxalates? Not familiar with that term.

I have done extensive testing for viruses and parasites. High numbers for EBV, but not active. Trying to get tested for enterovirus.

I did Genova blood and stool testing, but what you describe sounds more involved. I will look into it and the others you mentioned.

Tyrosine is an amino acid? Safe to try a small amount?

Thank you!

 

[Learner1]

This is challenging for all if us. Very few doctors anywhere. Glad you're looking into mast cell issues.

Is there a test for oxalates? Not familiar with that term

A Great ZplsibsOrfanic Acid test is best, but I had it show up on LavCirp urine. You might look at lowoxalate.info and see if anything fits.

I have done extensive testing for viruses and parasites. High numbers for EBV, but not active. Trying to get tested for enterovirus.

Did you have a PCR test for EBV? A lot of times a chronic infections is missed when just antibodies were tested. Valcyte turned the corner for me.

I did Genova blood and stool testing, but what you describe sounds more involved. I will look into it and the others you mentioned.

Great. Really helpful. Do the Prepay, it's cheaper.

Tyrosine is an amino acid? Safe to try a small amount?

Yes should be safe. Typical dosage fur low dopamine us1-2g. My doc put nd 9n 6g and. I reduced if over time.

Good luck!

 

[EddieB]

Got my GP to approve blood and urine tests for amino acids, I’ll start there.

Also approved another EBV-PCR test. Did one before but it’s been a while, was negative.

Can you tell me more about the valcyite? My immunologist gave me acyclovir to try, but from what I’ve read there are dosing protocols (Dr Learner) that need to be followed to be effective.

I’m in one of those dark, dark periods where it seems there is no way out of this. Your success is uplifting, thank you so much.
E.