Anyone else have a massive improvement from Tyrosine?

[Learner1]

I’ve been on tyrosine 500 mg in the morning on empty stomach for a week and a half.
It seems to have taken the edge of the anxiety and depression that has been a part of my pem. For which I’m very grateful.

But it also seems to make me even more drowsy at daytime than usual.
Im considering to take it in the afternoon, but it’s magic seems to wear off a bit towards the evening, and I prefer the day to be anxi-less (that’s not a word?) over the evening and night…

So …any thoughts on how to keep the good effect and at the same time get rid of the side effect?

That's what tyrosine does.

I've taken as much as 6g a day, prescribed by my doctor. You might try going up to 2-3 g a day and see how you feel.

 

[Hufsamor]

That's what tyrosine does.

I've taken as much as 6g a day, prescribed by my doctor. You might try going up to 2-3 g a day and see how you feel.

But what do you do with the drowsiness? Or do you take it in the afternoon?

 

[Learner1]

But what do you do with the drowsiness? Or do you take it in the afternoon?

Tyrosine is stimulating. Helps you make more dopamine. You can take it in multiple doses throughout the day or just before you typically start to crash. I'd avoid taking it before bed, though, as it can disturb sleep.

 

[hapl808]

I think it's interesting the different reactions. I tried tyrosine for a few days and it made me even more exhausted and I think worsened my mood as well. Within 24 hours of stopping I felt much improved. Weird since I thought dopamine crashes seem to follow any exertion for me (part of my PEM reaction), but maybe it's something else. I do think it's hard to distinguish between adrenaline, dopamine, glutamate, etc. Many neurotransmitters seem to have overlapping functions.

 

[Learner1]

I think it's interesting the different reactions. I tried tyrosine for a few days and it made me even more exhausted and I think worsened my mood as well. Within 24 hours of stopping I felt much improved. Weird since I thought dopamine crashes seem to follow any exertion for me (part of my PEM reaction), but maybe it's something else. I do think it's hard to distinguish between adrenaline, dopamine, glutamate, etc. Many neurotransmitters seem to have overlapping functions.

I found doing a plasma amino acid test as well as catecholamine testing to be tremendously helpful in sorting these things out rather than guessing. The microbiome also has a role in all this, too

 

[hapl808]

Did you find the plasma amino acid test actionable? Did it show something like tyrosine out of range or just a bit low, and then supplementation improved symptoms? Seems like a useful test if it works like that. I've always been a bit skeptical of neurotransmitter urine tests, but haven't had the plasma amino acid test recommended to me.

I do believe that the microbiome is a large part of the picture, if not the actual root cause. My symptoms all seem to affect my gut. As I've mentioned even something like mental focus will give me gut problems the next day. I also wish there were a reliable microbiome testing company, but opinion also seems divided there.

 

[Learner1]

Did you find the plasma amino acid test actionable? Did it show something like tyrosine out of range or just a bit low, and then supplementation improved symptoms? Seems like a useful test if it works like that. I've always been a bit skeptical of neurotransmitter urine tests, but haven't had the plasma amino acid test recommended to me.

Yes, I had:

• Low methionine, explaining my far lower than expected homocysteine
• Low glycine, which explained why just taking NAC wasn't raising my glutathione
• High phenylalanine and low tyrosine which explained my chronically low dopamine and qualified me for Kuvan
• Low lysine, making it harder to fight herpes viruses
• Low isoleucine and leucine suggesting that taking BCAAs would help me, this avoiding PEM
• Low ornithine and citrulline, leading to inability to clear ammonia and disrupted sleep.

My neurologist ram Neurolab which was useful.

I do believe that the microbiome is a large part of the picture, if not the actual root cause. My symptoms all seem to affect my gut. As I've mentioned even something like mental focus will give me gut problems the next day. I also wish there were a reliable microbiome testing company, but opinion also seems divided there.

GI Effects and GI Map are good for initial screening of h.pylori, candida, low SigA, calprotectin, gliadin antibodies, klebsiella, etc. Viome is good for actionable info on how to manipulate the microbiome.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

Yes, I had:

• Low methionine, explaining my far lower than expected homocysteine
• Low glycine, which explained why just taking NAC wasn't raising my glutathione
• High phenylalanine and low tyrosine which explained my chronically low dopamine and qualified me for Kuvan
• Low lysine, making it harder to fight herpes viruses
• Low isoleucine and leucine suggesting that taking BCAAs would help me, this avoiding PEM
• Low ornithine and citrulline, leading to inability to clear ammonia and disrupted sleep.

My neurologist ram Neurolab which was useful.
GI Effects and GI Map are good for initial screening of h.pylori, candida, low SigA, calprotectin, gliadin antibodies, klebsiella, etc. Viome is good for actionable info on how to manipulate the microbiome.

So to fix the ones that were low, did you just supplement them directly, and did it noticeably help?

 

[Learner1]

So to fix the ones that were low, did you just supplement them directly, and did it noticeably help?

Tyrosine, and then Kuvan (BH4) helped and now they're normal.

 

[Violeta]

Tyrosine, and then Kuvan (BH4) helped and now they're normal.
View attachment 44975

That chart is incredibly amazing.
Peroxynitrite interferes with BH4? Do you know anything else about that? I will try to look it up.

 

[Learner1]

That chart is incredibly amazing.
Peroxynitrite interferes with BH4? Do you know anything else about that? I will try to look it up.

You might find these helpful

"Consensus guideline for the diagnosis and treatment of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) deficiencies | Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases | Full Text" https://ojrd.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13023-020-01379-8

 

[Violeta]

You might find these helpful

"Consensus guideline for the diagnosis and treatment of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) deficiencies | Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases | Full Text" https://ojrd.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13023-020-01379-8
View attachment 45372

Wow, thank you. And this could be related to orthostatic intolerance and ringing in the ears, which I have read can be caused by peroxinitrite. Looks complicated, I hope I can understand it.

 

[Hufsamor]

I’ve been on tyrosine 500 mg in the morning on empty stomach for a week and a half.
It seems to have taken the edge of the anxiety and depression that has been a part of my pem. For which I’m very grateful.

But it also seems to make me even more drowsy at daytime than usual.
Im considering to take it in the afternoon, but it’s magic seems to wear off a bit towards the evening, and I prefer the day to be anxi-less (that’s not a word?) over the evening and night…

So …any thoughts on how to keep the good effect and at the same time get rid of the side effect?

I’ve ended up taking 500 mg when the PEM hits hard, and not on regular basis.
So those days I’ll be half dead anyway - and the anxiety grows big and bad -
I’ll take a 500 mg pill.

 

[Learner1]

I’ve ended up taking 500 mg when the PEM hits hard, and not on regular basis.
So those days I’ll be half dead anyway - and the anxiety grows big and bad -
I’ll take a 500 mg pill.

500mg is a relatively small amount. When I first had issues with lethargy data lack of dopamine and low tyrosine, my doctor suggested taking 6 g of tyrosine. I did that for a couple of months, then reduced it to 3 g and then to 2g, then to 1g. I think you could go much higher as long as you don't experience irritability, fast pulse, or high blood pressure, which would be symptoms of overdoing it.

 

[Pearshaped]

It seems to cut through brain fog and fatigue like a knife through butter. I have to wonder if it's possible to be tyrosine deficient if you have malabsorption issues?

Could it be modulating the immune system somehow?

Do you have tyroid issues ? have you been tested for hypotyroid and for autoimmune stuff re thyroid ?
Because tyrosine is often very helpful in ppl with these issues.

 

[Violeta]

Ok Drob31 it goes like this: Something causes elevated levels of serotonin in the blood. Platletes clump together causing vasoconstriction. Levels of seroronin also rise in the GI tract. Again this causes constriction and GI problems. The serotonon in the blood is transported via the blood to the central nervous system. This is what causes the most of the other symptoms.Why does this happen? BIG question but from what i know it may well be a result of some of you having lower than average levels of the enzyme Mono Amine Oxidise. Or it might be something to do with the transporter for serotonin. This is called SERT. It can be blocked which might result in serotonin remaining in some places longer than it should. This then causes some receptors for it becoming over active.

@andyguitar have you found any new information about serotonin?

 

[andyguitar]

have you found any new information about serotonin?

Nothing much.

 

[Violeta]

Nothing much.

Maybe a glitch in serotonin catabolism causes elevated levels of serotonin in the blood.

I'm watching a video that talks about the way it is catabolized and then excreted by the kidneys.

Three things mentioned:
CYP 450 enzymes
Glucuronidation
Sulfation

 

[Gondwanaland]

Maybe a glitch in serotonin catabolism causes elevated levels of serotonin in the blood.

I'm watching a video that talks about the way it is catabolized and then excreted by the kidneys.

Three things mentioned:
CYP 450 enzymes
Glucuronidation
Sulfation

Ginger, raw carrots and probably parsley as well are very effective to lower serotonin

 

[Violeta]

I am having very good results from taking tyrosine. My temperature has gone up, standing causes less anxiety and fatigue, and I have been able to make myself do more around the house. Hopefully this will continue.

These are two interesting things I read about tyrosine. They seem to indicate that taking vitamin C and B6 would most likely be helpful. That's a simplistic conclusion, if anyone has more insights into that, would love to hear them.

I also find it interesting that tyrosine can curb inflammation caused by infection or an autoimmune response.


Some adults develop elevated tyrosine in their blood. This indicates a need for more vitamin C. More tyrosine is needed under stress, and tyrosine supplements prevent the stress-induced depletion of norepinephrine and can cure biochemical depression.

• Tyrosinemia may coexist with tyrosinuria and the most common cause is either vitamin B6 deficiency or pyridoxal 5-phosphate dysfunction, or weakness of the tyrosine transaminase enzyme and increased need for vitamin B6 or pyridoxal 5-phosphate.

One effect of tyrosine is that it is anti encephalopathic.
Encephalitis is inflammation of the active tissues of the brain caused by an infection or an autoimmune response. The inflammation causes the brain to swell, which can lead to headache, stiff neck, sensitivity to light, mental confusion and seizures.