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Antivirals Effective Against Coronavirus?

Messages
11
DMSO can be very damaging to human cells! People think that they can drink the stuff with no consequences. It is known to cause cell damage in very small amounts. I was interested in using it to mix essential oils because it can work fairly well for some oils. For Boswellia/Frankincense it does not because they are so sticky which is unfortunate. Even if I could of used it I would of diluted it substantially.

The most comprehensive treatment protocol that I know of for SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19>
Stephen Harrod Buhner's Recommendations for Herbal Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 & COVID-19.
Stephen Harrod Buhner has published a number of books on treating bacteria and viruses using Herbs. His books are very good and I highly recommend them.
He did later publish and update to explain the reasoning for his suggestions>
https://www.stephenharrodbuhner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/coronaupdate.pdf

Well worth a read IMO.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,300
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Thanks @Not_ME for posting those helpful links to Stephen Buhner's protocol(s); I agree the information is quite compreshensive. The first link [Herbal Treatment For Coronavirus Infections] is double spaced and 19 pages long; the second link [Corona Virus, Addendum] is 5 pages long. I thought I'd copy and paste what I considered some of the highlights, though there's plenty of other really good information to be gleaned. -- (boldings & underlining mine).

p.7-8

ACE-2 is intimately involved in regulating the renin-angiotensis system (RAS). RAS is active throughout the body and in most organs including the lungs, spleen, lymph nodes, kidneys (where it regulates renal electrolyte homeodynamis), the vascular system (where it regulates constriction and relaxation of the vessels), and so on.​
RAS is crucial to the functioning of most organs in the body. ACE-2 has a number of regulatory functions, among them converting angiotensin 2 (Ang-2) to less potent molecular forms. (Angiotensin 2 is a highly bioactive molecule, ACE-2 regulates/modulates its actions.)​
The SARS-group of viruses attach to ACE-2 wherever it occurs on the surface of cells (including the cilia in the lungs). [Herbs that protect ACE-2 are 8 Glycyrrhiza spp (licorice), Scutellaria baicalensis (Chinese skullcap root), Sambucus spp (elder), luteolin, Aesculus hippocastanum (horse chestnut), Polygonum cuspidatum (Japanese knotweed root), Rheum officinale, and plants high in procyanidins and lectins (e.g. cinnamon)].​
These ACE-2 linkages are the entry point for the viruses infection of cellular tissues. Once ACE-2 is damaged by viral attachment and penetration ACE-2 levels in the lungs (or the affected organ) fall, ACE-2 function declines or is destroyed, the RAS system is no longer modulated properly. The lungs show enhanced vascular permeability, edema, neutrophil accumulation and worsening lung function.​
ACE-2 function also tends to be less dynamic the older people grow. This is part of the reason that the SARS-group of viruses has more damaging impacts on the elderly [Herbs that upregulate ACE-2, increasing its levels in the body, are Pueria spp (kudzu), Salvia miltiorrhiza (Dan shen), and Ginkgo biloba]. ACE inhibitors (in contrast to ACE-2 upregulators) will actually increase the presence of ACE-2 and help protect the lungs from injury [ Some herbs that do that are Crataegus spp (hawthorn) and Pueraria spp (kudzu)].​
... The RAS-stimulated cellular hypoxia generates high levels of free radicals through the rapid increase of Ang-2, i.e. a hypoxia-re-oxygenation injury cycle. The cells generate large levels of hydrogen peroxide and superoxide radicals. ... -- ... protecting endothelial cells (Polygonum cuspidatum – Japanese knotweed root) is crucial...​
... Some Other Plants Found Active Against SARS-group Coronaviruses Artemisia annua, Cassia tora, Cibotium barometz, Dioscorea batatas, Eucalyptus spp, Gentiana scabra, Linera aggregate, Lonicera japonica, Panax ginseng, Polygonum multiflorum, Taxillus chinensis, Pyrrosia lingua, and Rheum officinale. ...​
...................................................................................................................................​
From the 2nd link, The Corona Virus, Addendum
There are a number of crucial points to keep in mind. The first is this: plant medicines are absolutely not drugs. They are far more complex in their actions. The way I discussed them in the initial corona virus article simplified that considerably.​
To go into it a bit . . . drugs are single chemical structure entities. A great many of them are designed to force an alteration in physiological functioning, to lower blood pressure or to increase levels of ACE2, for instance. Drugs almost never treat the underlying condition which is causing the symptoms; they just force the body to behave, to move into a range of behavior that some people have decided it must be within.​
This is a terribly flawed approach to disease but a very profitable one for pharamceutical companies. The last thing they want is for people to get well and to no longer need the drugs. It is simply a kind of “Ve haf vays to make you behaf.”​
Plant medicine and the healing system it comes out of is quite different. It is crucial to understand that plant medicines are not simple. They have multiple constituents that do many things and they tend to work in synergy with each other. If other herbs are added to the mix then the synergy becomes even more complex. Ultimately, despite all the intellecutalism and mental analysis, herbalism is an art form, not give to the kind of misplaced reductionism of pharmaceuticals . . . though of course most people in the west insist on trying to do so anyway...​
So . . . in the corona virus protocol itself, there are plants that specifically protect ACE2 integrity and reduce viral attachment and invasion. Then you have kudzu which can increase ACE2 levels while reducing ACE but which at the same time modulates excess inflammation in the lungs (as many of the herbs in this protocol do). The herb does many things, not one.​
The reason why increasing ACE2 is important is that the lungs need ACE2 in order to function well. In the elderly those levels are often significantly reduced. This is one of the reasons why their lungs are a major point of entry for disease organisms, why they often die of pneumonia. So, in that population increasing ACE2 is important. Kudzu is absolutely not a pharmaceutical, it is very complex.​
The problem with elderly patients who are on multiple pharmaceuticals, some of which force an increase in ACE2 or force 4 a decrease in ACE is that those drugs only do that, they do not act as complex modulators or synergists, enhancing physiological functioning, moving it toward health. So, again, it is not possible to look at plant medicines the same way that you look at drugs; they are not remotely the same things.​
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Stephen Buhner seems to be somewhat self-contradictory in this document: he says "herbalism is an art form, not give to the kind of misplaced reductionism of pharmaceuticals".

But then his actual analysis of why he thinks the herbs will work is entirely reductionistic, as details the effect herbs have on ACE2, an enzyme attached to the outer surface of cells, which Buhner has reductionistically singled out as the key target in protecting against COVID-19.

And in order to find herbs which target ACE2, Buhner will have had to rely on reductionistic scientific studies, as it is only such studies which are able to determine the effect herbs have on various receptors, cytokines, hormones, etc.

So he claims herbalism is not reductionistic like pharmaceuticals, but his analysis is very reductionistic.
 
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YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE

Regarding ongoing research into the possible use and/or value of hydroxchloroquine in treating COVID-19:

A massive study found that coronavirus patients who took the malaria drug touted by Trump had a higher risk of death
https://www.yahoo.com/news/massive-study-coronavirus-patients-shows-140100072.html



THE LANCET .... from link in the above report
Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext
 
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PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
Stephen Buhner seems to be somewhat self-contradictory in this document: he says "herbalism is an art form, not give to the kind of misplaced reductionism of pharmaceuticals".

But then his actual analysis of why he thinks the herbs will work is entirely reductionistic [...]

My impression, based on what Wayne has posted, is that when Stephen Buhner mentions reductionism he's talking about the 'forcing' aspect of pharmaceuticals that treat symptoms instead of conditions (first quote below) vs. the 'moving toward health' approach of using herbs and their complex, multi-faceted actions to support the body and help it to heal itself (second quote below).

These quotes show what I mean, with bold added.
"drugs are single chemical structure entities. A great many of them are designed to force an alteration in physiological functioning, to lower blood pressure or to increase levels of ACE2, for instance. Drugs almost never treat the underlying condition which is causing the symptoms; they just force the body to behave, to move into a range of behavior that some people have decided it must be within."
...

"The problem with elderly patients who are on multiple pharmaceuticals, some of which force an increase in ACE2 or force 4 a decrease in ACE is that those drugs only do that, they do not act as complex modulators or synergists, enhancing physiological functioning, moving it toward health. So, again, it is not possible to look at plant medicines the same way that you look at drugs; they are not remotely the same things."
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
My impression, based on what Wayne has posted, is that when Stephen Buhner mentions reductionism he's talking about the 'forcing' aspect of pharmaceuticals that treat symptoms instead of conditions (first quote below) vs. the 'moving toward health' approach of using herbs and their complex, multi-faceted actions to support the body and help it to heal itself (second quote below).

Possibly Stephen Buhner may mean something like that, but nevertheless in the second document posted by Not_ME above, which explains Buhner's reasoning, Buhner has been sharp in his focus on ACE2 upregulators and ACE inhibitors as a treatment for COVID-19. When focusing on adjusting the mechanics a specific aspect of physiology, that's quite a reductionistic approach.

I do applaud this reductionistic approach, as the sort of herbalism I like is one which is based on a scientific understanding of the body. But in the same document Buhner claims:
It is crucial to understand that plant medicines are not simple. They have multiple constituents that do many things and they tend to work in synergy with each other.

It's true that a herb has multiple chemical constituents, each chemical with its own set of activities in the body. But Buhner's approach has still been targeted, focusing on specific mechanisms.



Whether any of the herbs Stephen Buhner recommends for COVID-19 actually work though is another story.

When I was looking for herbs and supplements that have antiviral effects against enterovirus, the virus which triggered my ME/CFS, I found dozens of herbs which were potent inhibitors of enterovirus in vitro. I tried many of these herbs for my ME/CFS, but to no avail.

Only years later did I learn a bit about pharmacokinetics, the field which allows you to determine how supplements, herbs and drugs are orally absorbed, and distribute into the bloodstream and tissues.

After I understood a bit about pharmacokinetics, I was then able to calculate the blood levels that are achieved when herbs are ingested at their maximum safe dose. From this calculation, it turned out that the blood levels of all the antiviral herbs on my list were far too low to have any decent antiviral effect. So this is why these herbs did not work for my enterovirus infection.

In in vitro studies, they will typically use high concentrations of a herb or other substance, which is why you can get potent antiviral effects in vitro. But in vivo, these high concentrations are usually not obtainable, so the herb will not work in vivo, because the blood concentrations are too low.

If Stephen Buhner is making use of in vitro studies to identify herbs which have an effect on ACE2 and ACE, and an antiviral effect on SARS-CoV-2, then these herbs will likely not work in vivo, when you actually take the herb.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
From PubMed (1977)

[Virus Inactivation by Hydrogen Peroxide]
[Article in Russian]
R Mentel', R Shirrmakher, A Kevich, R S Dreĭzin, I Shmidt
  • PMID: 203115
Abstract
The effect of H2O2 on adenovirus types 3 and 6, adenoassociated virus type 4, rhinoviruses 1A, 1B, and type 7, myxoviruses, influenza A and B, respiratory syncytial virus, strain Long, and coronavirus strain 229E was studied in vitro, using different H2O2 concentration and timec of exposure.

H2O2 in a 3 percent concentration inactivated all the viruses under study within 1--30 min. Coronavirus and influenza viruses were found to be most sensitive. Reoviruses, adenoviruses and adenoassociated virus were relatively stable. H2O2 is a convenient means for virus inactivation.

It's possible tiny amounts of inhaled 3% hydrogen peroxide might have some antiviral effects against coronavirus infection in the lungs, but three factors which may prevent H2O2 being an effective antiviral in the lungs are:

(1) The above-quoted study used 3% hydrogen peroxide. Now, you may inhale a few drops of 3% hydrogen peroxide, but by the time it gets to the lungs and is diluted with the fluids in the lungs, it's concentration will be reduced. So it's antiviral effects will be correspondingly weakened.

(2) The half life of hydrogen peroxide in lung tissue is very short, just 20 seconds. Ref: here. So that means after a minute or two of inhaling hydrogen peroxide, it will have already disappeared from the lungs.

(3) During an infection of the tissues, viruses are created inside cells, with each infected cell typically creating 20,000 new viral particles. These viruses inside cells will be protected from hydrogen peroxide, because they are protected behind the cell membrane, and because cells contain the enzyme catalase, which breaks down hydrogen peroxide.
 
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Avenger

Senior Member
Messages
323
Thanks @Not_ME for posting those helpful links to Stephen Buhner's protocol(s); I agree the information is quite compreshensive. The first link [Herbal Treatment For Coronavirus Infections] is double spaced and 19 pages long; the second link [Corona Virus, Addendum] is 5 pages long. I thought I'd copy and paste what I considered some of the highlights, though there's plenty of other really good information to be gleaned. -- (boldings & underlining mine).

p.7-8

ACE-2 is intimately involved in regulating the renin-angiotensis system (RAS). RAS is active throughout the body and in most organs including the lungs, spleen, lymph nodes, kidneys (where it regulates renal electrolyte homeodynamis), the vascular system (where it regulates constriction and relaxation of the vessels), and so on.​
RAS is crucial to the functioning of most organs in the body. ACE-2 has a number of regulatory functions, among them converting angiotensin 2 (Ang-2) to less potent molecular forms. (Angiotensin 2 is a highly bioactive molecule, ACE-2 regulates/modulates its actions.)​
The SARS-group of viruses attach to ACE-2 wherever it occurs on the surface of cells (including the cilia in the lungs). [Herbs that protect ACE-2 are 8 Glycyrrhiza spp (licorice), Scutellaria baicalensis (Chinese skullcap root), Sambucus spp (elder), luteolin, Aesculus hippocastanum (horse chestnut), Polygonum cuspidatum (Japanese knotweed root), Rheum officinale, and plants high in procyanidins and lectins (e.g. cinnamon)].​
These ACE-2 linkages are the entry point for the viruses infection of cellular tissues. Once ACE-2 is damaged by viral attachment and penetration ACE-2 levels in the lungs (or the affected organ) fall, ACE-2 function declines or is destroyed, the RAS system is no longer modulated properly. The lungs show enhanced vascular permeability, edema, neutrophil accumulation and worsening lung function.​
ACE-2 function also tends to be less dynamic the older people grow. This is part of the reason that the SARS-group of viruses has more damaging impacts on the elderly [Herbs that upregulate ACE-2, increasing its levels in the body, are Pueria spp (kudzu), Salvia miltiorrhiza (Dan shen), and Ginkgo biloba]. ACE inhibitors (in contrast to ACE-2 upregulators) will actually increase the presence of ACE-2 and help protect the lungs from injury [ Some herbs that do that are Crataegus spp (hawthorn) and Pueraria spp (kudzu)].​
... The RAS-stimulated cellular hypoxia generates high levels of free radicals through the rapid increase of Ang-2, i.e. a hypoxia-re-oxygenation injury cycle. The cells generate large levels of hydrogen peroxide and superoxide radicals. ... -- ... protecting endothelial cells (Polygonum cuspidatum – Japanese knotweed root) is crucial...​
... Some Other Plants Found Active Against SARS-group Coronaviruses Artemisia annua, Cassia tora, Cibotium barometz, Dioscorea batatas, Eucalyptus spp, Gentiana scabra, Linera aggregate, Lonicera japonica, Panax ginseng, Polygonum multiflorum, Taxillus chinensis, Pyrrosia lingua, and Rheum officinale. ...​
...................................................................................................................................​
From the 2nd link, The Corona Virus, Addendum
There are a number of crucial points to keep in mind. The first is this: plant medicines are absolutely not drugs. They are far more complex in their actions. The way I discussed them in the initial corona virus article simplified that considerably.​
To go into it a bit . . . drugs are single chemical structure entities. A great many of them are designed to force an alteration in physiological functioning, to lower blood pressure or to increase levels of ACE2, for instance. Drugs almost never treat the underlying condition which is causing the symptoms; they just force the body to behave, to move into a range of behavior that some people have decided it must be within.​
This is a terribly flawed approach to disease but a very profitable one for pharamceutical companies. The last thing they want is for people to get well and to no longer need the drugs. It is simply a kind of “Ve haf vays to make you behaf.”​
Plant medicine and the healing system it comes out of is quite different. It is crucial to understand that plant medicines are not simple. They have multiple constituents that do many things and they tend to work in synergy with each other. If other herbs are added to the mix then the synergy becomes even more complex. Ultimately, despite all the intellecutalism and mental analysis, herbalism is an art form, not give to the kind of misplaced reductionism of pharmaceuticals . . . though of course most people in the west insist on trying to do so anyway...​
So . . . in the corona virus protocol itself, there are plants that specifically protect ACE2 integrity and reduce viral attachment and invasion. Then you have kudzu which can increase ACE2 levels while reducing ACE but which at the same time modulates excess inflammation in the lungs (as many of the herbs in this protocol do). The herb does many things, not one.​
The reason why increasing ACE2 is important is that the lungs need ACE2 in order to function well. In the elderly those levels are often significantly reduced. This is one of the reasons why their lungs are a major point of entry for disease organisms, why they often die of pneumonia. So, in that population increasing ACE2 is important. Kudzu is absolutely not a pharmaceutical, it is very complex.​
The problem with elderly patients who are on multiple pharmaceuticals, some of which force an increase in ACE2 or force 4 a decrease in ACE is that those drugs only do that, they do not act as complex modulators or synergists, enhancing physiological functioning, moving it toward health. So, again, it is not possible to look at plant medicines the same way that you look at drugs; they are not remotely the same things.​

Hi Wayne,
great post, I am very interested!

Have you noticed that India has far lower rates of Coronavirus and deaths many western developed countries.

This is not the first time that this has occurred either! During the Collara outbreak of the 1890's there were also less deaths in India than European countries, possibly due to Bacteriaophage Viruses found in the Ganges, that could be used to target not only bacteria giving rise to Bacterial Overgrowth and D-Lactic acidosis (related to a subset of ME/CFS), but Bacteriophages can also target Viruses.
The Ganges, India's sacred river has a number of guardian's that thrive in the excrement and may be the reason for their continued protection against Coronavirus. See BBC article;

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161115-the-viruses-that-may-save-humanity

''It was the early 1890s, and Ernest Hankin was studying cholera outbreaks along the banks of the Ganges. As the locals dumped their dead in the holy water, the river should have quickly transformed into a poisonous spring of the disease, with an epidemic sweeping through towns and villages down the valley.
He had seen this across Europe as water supplies became infected with the bacteria, yet here, on the banks of the Ganges, the disease remained relatively tame; the new outbreaks simmered and then died out rather than spreading like wildfire.
Hankin concluded that something mysterious within the water was killing the germs before they could wreak havoc, but it took another 20 years for a French scientist to suggest that their guardian angel was a type of virus known as a bacteriophage. Harmless to humans but deadly to the cholera bacteria, the virus appeared to be purifying the water before it could infect the local bathers.
Long ignored by scientists, it is now thought that these “ninja viruses” may one day save millions of lives, far beyond the banks of the Ganges, as they offer us a new arsenal of weapons against deadly disease.''


Paul.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,300
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Povidone-Iodine

Just got the following email today on using povidone-iodine against COVID-19 from Chris Masterjohn:

On May 26, a preprint* was released providing the first direct evidence that povidone-iodine, a widely used antiseptic, is capable of killing SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19.​
As little as 0.5% povidone-iodine completely inactivated the virus in 60 seconds, comparable to 70% alcohol. Greater concentrations were equally effective but provided no additional benefit.​
This was an in vitro study, testing the ability to inactivate the virus when infecting isolated cells from the kidneys of African green monkeys. Povidone-iodine is traditionally used topically, and this study does not provide any basis to suggest it should be swallowed orally, which might cause diarrhea, or worse in large amounts.​
70% ethanol isn't safe to use inside the nose, as it can alter the ciliary beat frequency, suggesting functional damage to the nasal tissue. 1.25% povidone-iodine solutions also have this problem and 2.5% solutions are toxic to the nasal mucosa, but 0.5% solutions are safe for anyone who doesn't have an iodine allergy or another reason to avoid iodine. 0.5% solutions are safe to use in the mouth, nose, and eyes.​
This suggests that 0.5% povidone-iodine solutions (which can be made by diluting 10% solutions, which are easily available on Amazon), can be used inside the nose with a sterile swab, nasal irrigation system, or nasal spray, and that they can be swished in the mouth for 60 seconds, to kill the virus.​
I have now stocked up on this for my own use, and intend to use it before and after potential exposures to the virus, and to use it four times a day if I wind up getting sick.​

I have now released Version 4 of The Food and Supplement Guide for the Coronavirus, which includes the use of povidone-iodine in this fashion.​
Stay safe and healthy,​
Chris​
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,300
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I've come to firmly believe over the past few weeks that we already have enough tools to effectively treat people with COVID-19. The following article (with over a 100 comments--many excellent--on the first day of publication) provides a lot more information than I was aware of. It only furthers my belief that this global pandemic crisis could be over in pretty short order if people would only pay attention to what's already been proven to work.

Mercola Article -- COVID-19 Critical Care

STORY AT-A-GLANCE
  • Despite the fact that many critical care specialists are using treatment protocols that differ from standard of care, information about natural therapeutics in particular are still being suppressed by the media and is not received by critical care physicians
  • Five critical care physicians have formed the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group (FLCCC). The group has developed a highly effective treatment protocol known as MATH+
  • Of the more than 100 hospitalized COVID-19 patients treated with the MATH+ protocol as of mid-April, only two died. Both were in their 80s and had advanced chronic medical conditions
  • The protocols call for the use of intravenous methylprednisolone, vitamin C and subcutaneous heparin within six hours of admission into the hospital, along with high-flow nasal oxygen. Optional additions include thiamine, zinc and vitamin D
  • COVID-19 kills by triggering hyperinflammation, hypercoagulation and hypoxia. The MATH+ protocol addresses these three core pathological processes

"Why is success in critical care being ignored?" the Alliance for Natural Health rightly asks.1 The organization claims "much more could be done to save lives" if critical care protocols were to take into account what critical care doctors are finding in practice. A May 14, 2020, article reads, in part:2

"After around 8 weeks in lockdown and 3 months since the spectre of Covid-19 loomed large in our media headlines, why is it that a team of frontline critical (intensive) care doctors in the USA who have delivered close to 100% survival with their unique protocol being roundly ignored?
Wouldn't you think that hospitals and governments would be biting their hands off to get a hold of their protocol? Or clamoring for more information and training to understand why their own outcomes from standard care fall so far short, delivering around just 50% survival in most critical care settings? …
It's now very clear that the outcomes among the very seriously ill patients in critical care units (also referred to as ICU [intensive care units]/ITU [intensive therapy units] in the UK) are being used to inform lockdown (or lock up!) strategy and keep the fear levels sufficiently high to ensure citizen compliance …
Why is there such widespread censorship of anything but the party line by online platforms which lack sufficient expertise to adjudicate on matters of science and medicine?
The public-facing narrative continues to profess that there is nothing you can do to support your immune system, there is nothing in the natural arsenal for Covid-19 … social distancing must be maintained at all times and that the only cure for this terrifying infection will magically come from a vaccine created at warp speed.
When you add these untruths to the plans being rolled out for ramping up citizen surveillance through test, track and trace, the erosion of our rights and freedoms through the emergency coronavirus legislation, the destruction of economies and the forced reliance of so many on the state for survival handouts, you realize how much we might lose whilst much of the world cowers behind closed doors in fear."
 

andyguitar

Moderator
Messages
6,595
Location
South east England
It's an interesting article and makes me wonder if covid can be transmitted via blood. Hope not as I have just seen that the NHS blood donation service does not test donor blood for covid. They say there is no evidence it can be transmitted by blood.
 
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YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
When you add these untruths to the plans being rolled out for ramping up citizen surveillance through test, track and trace, the erosion of our rights and freedoms through the emergency coronavirus legislation, the destruction of economies and the forced reliance of so many on the state for survival handouts, you realize how much we might lose whilst much of the world cowers behind closed doors in fear."
VOTE !!!!