Antivirals Effective Against Coronavirus?

[Rufous McKinney]

This is why I'm a one herb at a time lady. Though I do have both honeysuckle and forsythia in my backyard so maybe I can play around with those!

Thats why I decided: my CTM practitioner is who assembles the herbs for me, and he understands my unique situation...because BODIES vary.

I never take one herb, it is always mixes. And I don't pretend I can self-prescribe from a collection of 6000 or more herbs.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

In Germany there are different products in the pharmacy available. I asked for one that kills all viruses.

We have something called Tamiflu- and it seems to be never mentioned...so I assume it wouldn't work on corona

 

[Celandine]

Tamiflu doesn't even work on flu, or much of anything, from what I've read--
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Tamiflu doesn't even work on flu, or much of anything, from what I've read--

Apparently I was successful at demanding Tamiflu from my Primary Care physician around- day 4 of Stomach Flu near death Experience #...3 (I think it was the third time). It presumably likely was worthless.

And after I took their anti-nausea pharmaceutical and my gut turned to cement, my doctor prescribed me a federally banned herb thats good for nausea. Instead of the side effect ridden- pharmaceutical.

I'm not designing rockets any longer. I need relief.

 

[Wayne]

I've been watching a few of Dr. David Brownstein's interesting videos recently, which he's been posting on YouTube, and on his own website. He's the same guy who wrote the book, "Iodine : Why You Need It, Why You Can't Live Without It ... The following story and video is fairly typical of others I've seen, and describes how he's treating COVID-19 patients in the parking lot of his office, primarily with ozone, Vitamin C, and H2O2 & Iodine Nebulizing.

It's interesting toward the end of the video where Anne Marie describes how her brain function improved to better than normal as her COVID-19 symptoms improved. Dr. Brownstein attributes that to the reduction in inflammation, and mentions many people report vision improvements as well. -- I found this to be an insightful 5 1/2 minute video on one holistic practitioner's use of natural methods to achieve consistent and remarkable success in treating (many) COVID-19 infections.

There Is Still Hope Out There-Anne Marie:”Nebulizing was amazing.It opened up my chest & my breathing."

Meet Anne Marie, long time patient of my partner Dr Jeffrey Nusbaum. Anne Marie experienced flu-like symptoms including sinus congestion, chills and pain throughout her body, as well as difficulty breathing. She received a Vitamin C IV & ozone shot at our office.

She then followed Dr Nusbaum’s protocol of immune support supplements (vitamins A,C,D) and nebulized with our proprietary H202 solution with Lugol’s 5% iodine. Anne Marie had great results from these natural therapies and is doing well. This is her testimony. (The therapies discussed on this video should be supervised under the guidance of a physician or healthcare practitioner).

EDIT: -- Another Short David Brownstein Video

Another Video -- Nebulizing with Hydrogen Peroxide

This is a 15-minute video. I found the first five minutes especially compelling, as she describes how much drainage she experienced from her head and sinuses for weeks after starting to nebulize H2O2. At one point, she woke up one morning, and noticed something was different: She could hear way better!

 

[Hip]

This is a 15-minute video. I found the first five minutes especially compelling, as she describes how much drainage she experienced from her head and sinuses for weeks after starting to nebulize H2O2. At one point, she woke up one morning, and noticed something was different: She could hear way better!

Given that hydrogen peroxide is known to irritate the lungs, how can we sure that inhaling hydrogen peroxide won't damage the lungs and leave the patient more open to death by COVID-19?

Death from COVID-19 occurs when the delicate blood vessels of the lungs are damaged, and leak fluid into the lung air sacs (alveoli), preventing air from entering the alveoli, and thus starving the patient of oxygen. The air sacs are flooded with fluid, and so you cannot breathe.


This data sheet says:

Inhaling Hydrogen Peroxide can irritate the lungs. Higher exposures may cause a build-up of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema), a medical emergency.

So hydrogen peroxide itself causes a build-up of fluid in the lungs, which sounds like the last thing you would want in COVID-19.



Presumably the idea of inhaling hydrogen peroxide comes from the fact that it is an antiviral substance. So I guess it is possible it may have some antiviral effects in the lungs, but perhaps it might also cause lung irritation or damage, potentially making COVID-19 worse.

 

[pamojja]

So hydrogen peroxide itself causes a build-up of fluid in the lungs, which sounds like the last thing you would want in COVID-19.

Sure, that's why it is advised to be deluted to 3%, or even lower. And using Hydrogen peroxide without stabilizers for nebulizing, which is added in some commercial products.

 

[Hip]

Sure, that's why it is advised to be deluted to 3%, or even lower. And using Hydrogen peroxide without stabilizers for nebulizing, which is added in some commercial products.

The irritant/damaging effect of hydrogen peroxide on delicate lung tissue will probably be proportional to dose, so a lower dose will produce lesser irritation. However, if a COVID-19 patient already has lung damage and lung fluid build-up from the virus, then even a lesser degree of irritation may potentially be harmful in that situation. But we don't know, as this is a completely untested treatment.

Breathing hydrogen peroxide into the lungs does not appear to have been tested for safety in any clinical trials. It's a fringe alternative health treatment, but used by so few people that we do not have much data about possible ill effects.

We do know however that exposure to cleaning products such as bleach during home cleaning is linked to the lung disease COPD, which suggests than inhaling H2O2 bleach into the lungs on a long-term basis may not be a good idea.

 

[Wayne]

It's a fringe alternative health treatment

inhaling H2O2 bleach

So what if H2O2 hasn't gone through clinical trials? That's not the only one criteria for testing safety. It's also probably not the best one based on how many drugs have sailed through trials only to eventually go on to be responsible for many thousands of deaths. And you're worried about a little very dilute .5% H2O2 mist? And ignore the fact that people who do use it almost invariably are able to breathe easier within a very short while?

Hydrogen peroxide therapies have been safely used for decades by many health care practitioners for a variety of reasons. And they continue to use them because they believe they get better results than what can be achieved from far more dangerous drug oriented therapies. Why not consider the observations and clinical evidence of competent health care practitioners who have already demonstrated that these therapies are almost assuredly far safer and far more effective than what's being practiced by conventional medicine? I hear the death rate for people over 65 with COVID-19 that are put on a ventilator is 97%. -- I'll take my chances with that "dangerous" hydrogen peroxide, thank you very much.

@Mary
@YippeeKi YOW !!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

One of my favorites is to continue living and breathing, which is why I'll always go the natural route first, and then move on up the chain as necessary.

We do know however that exposure to cleaning products such as bleach during home cleaning is linked to the lung disease COPD, which suggests than inhaling H2O2 bleach into the lungs on a long-term basis may not be a good idea.

There's a world of difference between bleach-based household cleaning products and food grade H2O2.

It seems to me that .05% misted food grade hydrogen peroxide, most of which already comes pre-diluted to 16%, with instructions to dilute it further 1:6 with H2O, and which, as @pamojja pointed out, wouldn't contain the toxic stabilizers and additives that household and/or industrial bleaches have, doesn't seem to pose any sort of immediately visible or obvious risk, even with the added Lugol's iodine, itself an anti-bacterial/viral. It's an interesting treatment, and I think worth some thought and consideration before dismissing it out of hand.

Thank you for your links @Wayne .... I don;t always agree with Dr. Brownstein's iodine dosing protocols, altho I do agree with iodine, and I hvaen't had a chance yet to click all the links, but so far, I totally agree with the interesting info you've posted.

But then, you know that you always have my vote , if only because you're a valiant and tireless explorer of " ... the other way ...", an experimental exploration and journey I'm happy to take with ya'll ....

 

[Wayne]

but then, we're not particularly BigPharma, nothing-can-be-cured-except-by-some-sort-of-prescription-often-off-label-use amenable

@YippeeKi YOW !! -- I just remembered a comment I read on my linked video. Thought you might appreciate it...

...a little trivia history ....during the reign of Queen Victoria when India was part of the British Empire the British pharmaceuticals felt threatened when the Indians found that small amounts of hydrogen peroxide added to their drinking water cured a wide variety of illnesses like colds, flu, cholera and malaria to name but a few....so they tried to ban it in India. Big Pharma at worked centuries ago. ​

 

[Hip]

Hydrogen peroxide therapies have been safely used for decades by many health care practitioners for a variety of reasons.

Sushi got intravenous hydrogen peroxide therapy which put her ME/CFS into remission for 2 years. But it also caused permanent damage to the veins, and it's hard for her to get blood drawn as a result. That does not seem like a particularly safe treatment, even if it did offer benefits. I would not trust H2O2 practitioners to conduct the necessary safety testing, as for one thing, such testing costs a lot of money.

But here we are not talking even about intravenous H2O2, we are talking about breathing H2O2 into the lungs, which is a different thing, and would have to be separately tested for safety. And in particular, would have to be tested for safety in COVID-19 patients, to ensure that they are not made worse.

It's possible H2O2 might have some benefits for COVID-19, but it's also possible it might be harmful.


Breathing in H2O2 is fringe, I've seen very few people do it when searching online. And H2O2 comes under the chemical category of a peroxide-based bleach, so you are breathing bleach into the lungs, which has been associated with developing COPD.

One of my favorites is to continue living and breathing, which is why I'll always go the natural route first, and then move on up the chain as necessary.

I can understand how taking herbs could be called natural, as these grow in nature, but hydrogen peroxide is a harsh chemical made in an industrial process.

Whenever I post any treatments on this forum, be they drug or supplement, I am usually careful to point out possible risks or side effects, because I feel this is important, and I feel it would be irresponsible not to make people aware of the downsides as well as the benefits.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Just to be clear, I went on to say that from what I'd read of @Wayne's post and small portions of his posted links, the H2O2/Iodine misting sounded interesting and was generally worth further thought and investigation. I never suggested it as a treatment for COVID, just as an interesting approach to any viral or bacterial infection.

Interesting that you call breathing in a synthetically manufactured bleaching agent into the lungs a "natural route". I can understand how taking herbs could be called natural, as these grow in nature, but hydrogen peroxide is a harsh chemical made in an industrial process.

"Small amounts of gaseous hydrogen peroxide occur naturally in the air." www.atsdr.cdc.gov ›

EDIT ..... to first line to add more clarity ...

 

[Wally]

FYI - Linking to a thread by @Andrew that provides two documents that evaluate different drugs /natural supplements that have been suggested for treatment of COVID-19.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/covid-information-from-the-medical-letter.79895/
“The Medical Letter is a publication that normally charges for its content, but it is making its covid drug summaries free..”

 

[andyguitar]

How about using light as an anti-viral? It's been in the news. The difficulty is..... how do you get it into the body? I have a solution. Christmas tree lights. You know those strings of little lights. You could stuff them up your nose. And you can get them deep into the body by another route. Up the bum.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

How about using light as an anti-viral? It's been in the news. The difficulty is..... how do you get it into the body? I have a solution. Christmas tree lights. You know those strings of little lights. You could stuff them up your nose. And you can get them deep into the body by another route. Up the bum.

Absolutely terrific idea. And instead of Christmas tree lights, how about those smaller fairy lights? You could get a whole lot of them down your nose and up your city hall.

AxeMan, I do believe there's a place for you on the president's cabinet over here. Don't worry about not being a US citizen, he won't ...

 

[andyguitar]

AxeMan, I do believe there's a place for you on the president's cabinet over here. Don't worry about not being a US citizen, he won't ...

I'm on my way. Also have good idea re disinfectant.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm on my way. Also have good idea re disinfectant.

Omigod, he's going to totally looooove you !!!

Oh please, do please please tell .... I promise I won't mention it to any of the very stable geniuses I regularly hob-nob with in the course of my very tremendous, very beautiful, very powerful day ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

FYI - Linking to a thread by @Andrew that provides two documents that evaluate different drugs /natural supplements that have been suggested for treatment of COVID-19.

Thank you @Wally for that link to @Andrew's thread. The second link he posted was a real mother lode of detailed, interesting, and germane info !!!

 

[Hip]

As regarding this new issue of breathing in hydrogen peroxide as an COVID-19 treatment: a COVID-19 patient struggling to breathe could be made much worse and possibly die from breathing hydrogen peroxide into their lungs.

a harsh chemical like H2O2 might easily make virally-damaged lungs worse. I am not saying it will, and the alternative possibility is that it might help. But nevertheless, it's an untested and thus risky treatment for COVID-19.


I brought up safety concerns because nobody wants to see forum members harmed by a treatment. Anyone is free to try hydrogen peroxide inhalation, and maybe it might help; but they should bear in mind that there may be risks, and it might also be harmful.