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Antivirals Effective Against Coronavirus

tdog333

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Things seem to be getting worse in regards to the 2019-nCoV coronavirus. Does anyone know what type of herbal/consumer available antivirals might be most potent against it?

I've been looking into any studies I can find as I assume the virus is somewhat similar to MERS or SARS since they are from the same family and RNA viruses.
 

Hip

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There are no specific antiviral drugs which work for coronavirus. Interferon, ribavirin, Kaletra and IVIG were used in the 2003 SARS coronavirus outbreak, but there is no clear evidence they were effective (and they may have even been harmful). Ref: 1

In China at the moment they are testing to see whether the HIV drugs Kaletra, Prezcobix and remdesivir might have some effect against the Wuhan coronavirus. Ref: 1

Herbs which boost the interferon response at the mucous membranes of the respiratory tract may theoretically be useful, as the interferon response is the first responder arm of the immune system. So by boosting interferon you may be able to kill any virus which lands on your mucous membranes before it gets a chance to enter the rest of the body.

Echinacea is an interferon-booster, and has been shown in studies to reduce the risk of catching a cold when the mucous membranes are exposed to a cold virus.

It's possible that zinc nasal sprays (eg Zicam) might have antiviral effects on the mucous membranes (especially if you spray in the mouth also), since these have been shown to reduce the duration colds (rhinovirus infection). Though zinc nasal sprays used in the nose have been linked to permanent loss of smell.

One of the best protective measures against viral infection is regular hand washing with soap and water several times a day.

I guess one could also consider spraying commonly touched surfaces like door knobs, light switches, etc with a solution of 90% alcohol and 10%, as this kills viruses. (To kill bacteria you normally use 70% alcohol, but viruses require 80 to 90% alcohol to kill). Or just use household bleach.



Note that if this Wuhan coronavirus does spread widely, it may leave in its wake not only fatalities, but also lots of new ME/CFS patients, because it was observed that many who survived SARS went on to develop a post-viral fatigue syndrome similar to chronic fatigue syndrome. About 17% of those who caught SARS and survived developed post-viral fatigue severe enough to prevent them from going to work. The same might happen with Wuhan coronavirus.
 
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alex3619

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Note that if this Wuhan coronavirus does spread widely, it may leave in its wake not only fatalities, but also lots of new ME/CFS patients, because it was observed that many who survived SARS went on to develop a post-viral fatigue syndrome similar to chronic fatigue syndrome.
This is my biggest concern.

The best defence against coronavirus is probably prevention: isolation (stay in your home), avoid crowded places especially planes, handwashing, gloves, eye protection and high grade masks in public are the most obvious preventative measures. Checking with your doctor on your concerns is also a good idea, before there are local outbreaks.

I have heard that the virus can survive for up to five days on surfaces. In this case I will be avoiding fresh produce, even home delivered. Frozen and canned produce may be safer.

Corona viruses can induce the common cold. Generally there is little incentive to research these viruses as aside from outbreaks like SARS (and another one) they are not very dangerous.

There is a risk people can be infectious and not showing signs for days before symptoms appear. This makes a virus hard to control.

Generally with corona virus infections you just need to isolate yourself, rest a lot, and drink lots of fluids. However they are known to be dangerous if they induce severe respiratory problems. In these cases a hospital can greatly improve survival rates, and in general lung infections most patients will survive if they make it onto a respirator with appropriate protocols.

I will be avoiding the public if an outbreak occurs locally ... which being mostly housebound is easy. I will be avoiding doctors and hospitals unless I get concerning respiratory symptoms. I will probably get gloves and a mask for dealing with visitors, and maybe wraparound eyewear.

My current understanding is that corona viruses are commonly only dangerous in young children, the elderly, and the very sick, especially those who already have respiratory problems. It is not clear that most with ME have increased risk. However, like with SARS, some strains, and probably this one, have increased health risk. This current strain also appears to be more infectious than SARS.

The elevated antiviral response in ME might actually confer some protection. In our case the virus may not be the main problem, our own immune defence may be the main problem for most of us. People with other immune disorders, lung problems, the very old, or the very young, who have ME, would probably benefit from discussing these things with their doctor before there is a problem.

This virus might not become a pandemic. We just cannot be sure. It pays to learn what you can before a problem exists. There are lots of official medical sites offering advice. Maybe we can make a good list?
 

Hip

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My current understanding is that corona viruses are commonly only dangerous in young children, the elderly, and the very sick, especially those who already have respiratory problems.
I read that the Wuhan coronavirus seems to kill mainly those over 60 (I'll be in that age group in a few years) and the immunocompromised. Whereas the SARS coronavirus was worse, killing all age ranges including young and healthy people. So in that respect, the Wuhan virus is not as bad as SARS.



The elevated antiviral response in ME might actually confer some protection.
Yes, most ME/CFS patients seem more resistant to catching colds. Rich Van Konynenburg hypothesized this may be because our interferon responses are permanently activated (in order to compensate for immune weaknesses elsewhere). So having our interferon defenses up may protect us to some degree from this coronavirus.



I will be avoiding the public if an outbreak occurs locally ... which being mostly housebound is easy.
In the UK some of the large supermarkets are open 24 hours, so it might be a good idea to do your shopping at say 3 am, when very few people will be around. Having the ME/CFS sleep cycle inversion makes this easy, if you have a car.
 

Markus83

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Buhner has a book on herbal antivirals. I find it very good. Buhner says that Scutellaria baicalensis and Glycyrrhiza glabra are particular strong herbal antivirals, but there are many more. As Glycyrrhiza glabra can potentially have serious side effects (particularly with long term and higher dosing), you should at least read Buhner's warnings before trying this one.

You can have a look in this book on google-books.
 
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Buhner has a book on herbal antivirals
I would recommend going with an expert Chinese herbalist...because they have antiviral protocols that address the various body systems and will include a mix of herbs which work best in your specific body.

I take Glycyrrhiza glabra- but never alone and mixed with other balancing herbs.

There should be at least 600 raw herbs....(tested from proper wholesalers)....in the office...and it should smell like China Town Herb shop. If it doesn't, your at the wrong place.

If your handed pills....that means your being offered a formula that was not customized for your particular issue. You probably have not yet found the expertise needed.
 

Hip

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I would recommend going with an expert Chinese herbalist...because they have antiviral protocols that address the various body systems and will include a mix of herbs which work best in your specific body.
Chinese herbs, like any herbs, may have specific biological effects, but Chinese herbalism as a system is based on totally pseudoscientific ideas and concepts.
 

Markus83

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@RufousMcKinney Buhner uses chinese herbs, too, but also other herbs from all around the globe. It's not based on chinese medicine philosophy but on his own empiric observations and many scientific studies. So you cannot compare Buhner with a chinese medicine practitioner (I don't say chinese medicine is bad, but simply Buhner and TCM are different things). Besides that Buhner has many interesting information in his book about cytokine cascades which the different viruses trigger etc. I looked in my book and saw that he also has a chapter on SARS/corona, but the treatment protocol is more or less the same as for severe influenca.
 

Hip

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Buhner says that Scutellaria baicalensis and Glycyrrhiza glabra are particular strong herbal antivirals, but there are many more.
Alternative medicine practitioners will often quote studies which demonstrate in vitro antiviral effects of a herb or supplement. However, even if a herb is potently antiviral in vitro, it usually has negligible antiviral action in vivo, when you take the herb orally. This is because oral dosing usually cannot achieve the same concentrations that were used in the in vitro studies.

But many alternative practitioners do not understand the difference between in vitro and in vivo tests — or they don't want to understand, because they are making money from selling literature which claims antiviral effects from herbs.

It's only if a herb or supplement has been demonstrated antiviral through in vivo tests on animals or humans can you know that it has efficacy when taken orally.

The alternative medicine site GreenMedInfo is one such culprit, that posts a lot of studies showing that herbs and supplements have antiviral effects in vitro. But they do not place any disclaimers on their site explaining that these herbs will usually be useless in vivo, when taken orally. I wrote to them, explaining the difference between in vitro and in vivo results, and pointing out that their website was misleading, but they made no changes to their site. Why? Because it's bad for business.
 

Markus83

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Yes, most studies are in vitro. There is hardly research on those things in western medicine, even lesser in vivo. But if you read through Buhner's books he's definitively no money maker and has a huge treatment experience. I think he treated at least 10 000 Lyme patients. At least I haven't seen better books on herbal medicine.
 
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It's not based on chinese medicine philosophy but on his own empiric observations and many scientific studies.
The chinese did not have access to- many other continents..when they started developing their traditional system of herbal medicine. So they won't know what affect an herb we find in Iceland...would have...because it outside their system...was never included. Which is not the same as saying- It will or won't work...or would work better if you were also taking these three other things...which balance things out.

When one uses herbs that have been worked with for over 2000 years...or a "new one" is like around 800 AD...well...there is some time there to determine what does or does not work....what interacts with what...and the very careful documentation based upon it. And what is necessary to balance complex body chemisty and energetics.

Since I find these chinese herbs to be quite effective in many ways at reducing symptom severity....it therefore requires very careful skill and training to properly prescribe them.

There are many poorly trained and poorly informed- practioners..as is the case with all of this..same at the Doctors Office.

The chinese herbal pharmacology is one of the most complex that exists an learning it requires great dedication and skill.
 

Wally

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I wonder if any of the studies listed below will influence whether or not natural supplements with anti-viral properties might be tried in treating Coronavirus, especially In light of the fact that no vaccine for this virus is currently available and no study appears to have been completed/published to identify particular drugs that might have a positive effect on treatment of this particular viral infection,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10543583 - Study re Vitamin C and the flu.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170216110002.htm - Study re Vit D and the flu

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31268140 - Study re Vit A and Ebola virus.
 

Cipher

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It's possible that zinc nasal sprays (eg Zicam) might have antiviral effects on the mucous membranes (especially if you spray in the mouth also), since these have been shown to reduce the duration colds (rhinovirus infection). Though zinc nasal sprays used in the nose have been linked to permanent loss of smell.
Zinc lozenges might be a good alternative, as they have also been shown to strongly reduce the duration of cold, especially if used in the form of zinc acetate in a slow-releasing lozenge. The reason why zinc acetate is superior compared other zinc compounds is that it releases ionic zinc. More about this can be read here.

I guess one could also consider spraying commonly touched surfaces like door knobs, light switches, etc with a solution of 90% alcohol and 10%, as this kills viruses. (To kill bacteria you normally use 70% alcohol, but viruses require 80 to 90% alcohol to kill).
Do you have a source regarding the 80-90 % ethanol requirement to kill viruses? Here in Sweden there is a go-to brand of chemical disinfectants called DAX, which essentially all of Sweden's hospitals use. Their regular hand sanitizer contains 75 % ethanol, and a pharmacy page describing the product says the following (translated):

DAX Clinical is effective against bacteria, yeast fungi and various viruses, like influenza virus, also including coronavirus.
DAX Clinical Hand disinfection is effective against bacteria, yeast fungi, mycobacteria, enveloped viruses and some naked viruses such as Murine Norovirus and Adenovirus.
This might not be true though, so I would be interested to know if higher concentrations are needed to ensure adequate efficiency against viruses.
 

Markus83

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This might not be true though, so I would be interested to know if higher concentrations are needed to ensure adequate efficiency against viruses.
In Germany there are different products in the pharmacy available. I asked for one that kills all viruses. This is called Virugard and has 99 % alcohol as ingredient. I've used this for years now not just because of the Corona thing. I think the normal product also kills viruses, but not all and not under all circumstances.
 

Hip

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Do you have a source regarding the 80-90 % ethanol requirement to kill viruses? Here in Sweden there is a go-to brand of chemical disinfectants called DAX, which essentially all of Sweden's hospitals use. Their regular hand sanitizer contains 75 % ethanol
I can't seem to find the article I read which stated that 70% alcohol is better for killing bacteria, and 80 to 90% alcohol better for viruses. I read this only few days ago, but cannot find the source.

However, I found this study which says:
Ethanol at 80% was highly effective against all 21 tested, enveloped viruses within 30 seconds.

Murine norovirus and adenovirus type 5 are usually inactivated by ethanol between 70% and 90% in 30 seconds, whereas poliovirus type 1 was often found to be too resistant except for ethanol at 95% (all test viruses of EN 14476).

Ethanol at 80% is unlikely to be sufficiently effective against poliovirus, calicivirus (FCV), polyomavirus, hepatitis A virus (HAV) and foot-and-mouth disease virus (FMDV). The spectrum of virucidal activity of ethanol at 95%, however, covers the majority of clinically relevant viruses.
The Wuhan coronavirus is an enveloped virus, so likely 80% ethanol will kill it.



This CDC article states:
Ethyl alcohol, at concentrations of 60%–80%, is a potent virucidal agent inactivating all of the lipophilic viruses (e.g., herpes, vaccinia, and influenza virus) and many hydrophilic viruses (e.g., adenovirus, enterovirus, rhinovirus, and rotaviruses but not hepatitis A virus (HAV) 58 or poliovirus).

Isopropyl alcohol is not active against the nonlipid enteroviruses but is fully active against the lipid viruses.
Note:
Ethyl alcohol = ethanol
Lipophilic virus = enveloped virus (virus which is covered by a fatty envelope)
Hydrophilic virus = non-enveloped virus


In terms of household bleach as a virucidal disinfectant, the CDC say:
One study reported that 25 different viruses were inactivated in 10 minutes with 200 ppm available chlorine.

Because household bleach contains 5.25%–6.15% sodium hypochlorite, or 52,500–61,500 ppm available chlorine, a 1:1,000 dilution provides about 53–62 ppm available chlorine, and a 1:10 dilution of household bleach provides about 5250–6150 ppm
So if you dilute household bleach by 1:100 (eg, 1 ml household bleach in 99 ml of water), that will create around a 500 ppm available chlorine solution, more than capable of killing lots of viruses.



So in summary: to kill the Wuhan coronavirus, ethanol at 60% to 95% will work. I expect this concentration of Isopropyl alcohol will also be effective for the Wuhan virus.

But for a full spectrum virucidal solution that kills most viruses, 95% ethanol is the best concentration.

I believe though for killing bacteria, 70% ethanol is more effective than 100% ethanol.

Or if you want to use household bleach, a 1:100 dilution is good at killing viruses.



Public Health England say that the coronavirus is:
unlikely to survive on surfaces, like door handles, for more than 24 hours.
 
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bertiedog

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Herbs which boost the interferon response at the mucous membranes of the respiratory tract may theoretically be useful, as the interferon response is the first responder arm of the immune system. So by boosting interferon you may be able to kill any virus which lands on your mucous membranes before it gets a chance to enter the rest of the body.
What works for me practically ever time once I get a sore throat or sensitive nose, is pouring several drops of pure Echinacea Augustifolia down the back of my throat every few hours. It tastes foul but it really does knock out the virus as long as you do it for at least 3 days.

If I feel exceptionally unwell I might add Andrographis as a herbal capsule taken 4 times day and again I will do this for the duration of the virus which rarely is more than 3 or 4 days. After that I have no sign of having had a virus apart from maybe a bit of catarrh but sometimes I don't get this at all.

I was told by a qualified herbalist (not sure if it was Stephen Buhner) that you need to take the Augustifolia version of Echinacea as that is the only effective version of Echinacea. He said the others don't work at all.

Since doing this I don't fear viruses too much as long as I hit them at the first sign of trouble. This happened in a big way over the Christmas period and I was hit by 4 different viruses, one on top of the other from different sources. I got over all of them quickly but unfortunately they have had a devastating effect on my adrenals which don't function and I have ended up with a big flare of POTS.

Finally if there is sensitivity in the nose because of the virus I then use a Neti pot and do salt sniffing 4 times a day. That also is highly effective as long as you use the Echinacea down the back of the throat to kill the virus.

Hope this helps.

Pam
 

bertiedog

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can't seem to find the article I read which stated that 70% alcohol is better for killing bacteria, and 80 to 90% alcohol better for viruses. I read this only few days ago, but cannot find the source.
BTW The Echinacea tincture with the Augustifolia contains alcohol but I am not sure of the percentage. I buy it from G Baldwin & Co here in the UK.

Pam
 

Hip

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BTW The Echinacea tincture with the Augustifolia contains alcohol but I am not sure of the percentage. I buy it from G Baldwin & Co here in the UK.
The 90% ethanol solution I mentioned is for sterilizing your hands, and commonly-touched surfaces like door knobs and light switches, to try to prevent person-to-person viral transmission. I am not sure if applying alcohol to your mouth and throat will have any antiviral effects on the mucous membranes.
 
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