Antivirals Effective Against Coronavirus?

[Wally]

*Quote from Reply No. 179 on page 9.

On both survivors & non-survivors notice both groups have sepsis infection before ARD. The survivor group recovers immediately if they get sepsis on Day 9 followed on Day 10 with ARD. Whereas non-survivors are infected with sepsis Day 10 followed by ARD on Day 12 and then followed by invasive intubation/ventilation.

@Ecoclimber - Do you know if these patients received any treatment with high dose intravenous Vitamin C? Just wondering because of prior clinical trials involving this type of treatment and in light of info. coming from China re Vitamin C treatment for coronavirus patients, as well as their new Vitamin C clinical trials,

*(Edit to add reference for quote)

 

[Wayne]

The snippet below is from this article: -- Vitamin C Protects Against Coronavirus -- March 13, 2020

...The basis for using high doses of vitamin C to prevent and combat virus-caused illness may be traced back to vitamin C’s early success against polio, first reported in the late 1940s.[6] Many people are unaware, even surprised, to learn this. Further clinical evidence built up over the decades, leading to an anti-virus protocol published in 1980.[7]​

​

It is important to remember that preventing and treating respiratory infections with large amounts of vitamin C is well established. Those who believe that vitamin C generally has merit, but massive doses are ineffective or somehow harmful, will do well to read the original papers for themselves. To dismiss the work of these doctors simply because they had success so long ago sidesteps a more important question: Why has the benefit of their clinical experience not been presented to the public by responsible governmental authorities, especially in the face of a viral pandemic?​

​

Read the full press release at Orthomolecular.com​

 

[Ecoclimber]

@Ecoclimber - Do you know if these patients received any treatment with high dose intravenous Vitamin C? Just wondering because of prior clinical trials involving this type of treatment and in light of info. coming from China re Vitamin C treatment for coronavirus patients, as well as their new Vitamin C clinical trials,

No, Not at Evergreen Hospital where most were treated. From the reports from China, No but they did use interferon. I still gleaming through the reports for info on what treatment that could be useful. They use Chinese medicine that I must look at more. Sepsis intrigue me as a possible catalyst in each patient, why?

Hospital environment and the lack of proper protection or were they so overwhelmed that it escaped their focus to check.

Eco

 

[Wally]

Additional posts re Vitamin C and China’s clinical trials can be found on this thread at https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...reat-coronavirus-patients.79430/#post-2263171.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Additional posts re Vitamin C and China’s clinical trials can be found on this thread at https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...reat-coronavirus-patients.79430/#post-2263171.

Thanks Wally,
I was focusing on the treatment of patients once infected with #COVID19 in the City of Wuhan in the Hubei province, the center of the outbreak and did not come across any medical reports consisting of high dosage intravenous Vitamin C therapy used in advanced stages of this disease but there are a lot of reports to read through. I'll check it out.

 

[Wally]

Not sure if this is the right thread to add in this video just uploaded on Youtube by Dr. Berg (too many coronavirus threads to pick from ), but since it addresses anti-viral properties of Vitamin C I thought it might fit here for discussion/ critiques..

 

[Wally]

Thanks Wally,
The Shanghai doctor was talking about he prevention from geting COVID19 in Shanghai. I was focusing on the treatment of patients once infected with #COVID19 in the City of Wuhan in the Hubei province, the center of the outbreak.

@Ecoclimber - Dr. Cheng discusses in his videos the IV Vitamin C treatment that is going on in Wuhan for patients who are infected with coronavirus. He says this treatment is being administered to hospitalized patients. He does not say at what dose, but it is possible that the high dose being used in the clinical trial may have been already tried in a hospital setting prior to the trial.starting or concurrently with the trial. He may be talking about patients in the trial, but the impression I had from his videos is treatment of patients is happening with patients not in the trial. Dr. Cheng has been responding to some comments on his Youtube Channel, so perhaps he would answer (if he knows) about the dose used with hospitalized patients in Wuhan (or other locations in China) and whether or not this type of treatment has been used on patients who are not part of the clinical trial.

 

[Wally]

@Ecoclimber - Here is the video where Dr. Cheng discusses a patient being given high dose IV Vitamin C in the ICU outside of the clinical trial (see at about minute marker 2:45). Dose amount was 10 grams (see at about minute marker 4:08).

 

[pamojja]

As posted in the trial corona thread:

IV vitamin C is at least already mentioned at:

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/bF2YhJKiOfe1yimBc4XwOA

Expert consensus on comprehensive treatment of coronavirus disease in Shanghai 2019
Shanghai Medical Association 1 week ago

[Editor's note]
On March 1st, the Chinese Journal of Infectious Diseases, which was hosted by the Shanghai Medical Association, pre-published the "Expert Consensus on Comprehensive Treatment of Coronavirus in Shanghai 2019" (http://rs.yiigle.com/m/yufabiao/1183266 .htm), which has attracted widespread attention in the industry. Shanghai TV also reported on the news last night. This consensus was reached by 30 experts representing the strongest medical force for the treatment of new-type coronavirus pneumonia in Shanghai. Through the study and summary of more than 300 clinical patients, and fully learning from the treatment experience of colleagues at home and abroad, the "Shanghai Plan" was finally formed. At the end of the article, the list of 30 subject experts (18 writing experts and 12 consulting experts) from various medical institutions in Shanghai is attached.

translated with google and attached as .pdf

Well worth reading, since Shanghai had only 346 confirmed cases, 324 already recovered, 19 active and only 3 deaths.

 

[Wayne]

uploaded on Youtube by Dr. Berg

@Wally -- I like Dr. Berg and his videos. Thanks for posting his new one on Vit. C!

 

[minimus]

Nancy Klimas, immunologist and ME/CFS specialist, posted a YouTube video yesterday with some observations and recommendations regarding Covid-19 for ME/CFS patients: Link

She thinks we are slightly more at risk if infected because our immune systems are somewhat compromised when it comes to fighting viral infections.

She recommends standard avoidance measures like social isolation, something many of us do 24/7.

She also mentions a number of supplements that might be helpful.

• Nasal sprays with xylitol (available in the US) or cellulose (Canada & EU)
• CoQ10
• NAC
• Glutathione, preferably liposomal (though NAC also can raise glutathione)
• B12 & folate
• Vitamin C
• Isoprinosine (available in Europe) or Inosine (available as a supplement in the US)

 

[godlovesatrier]

I also think bcaa's are underrated when your sick, like so many supplements and plant based medicines they all work together to create cellular protective effects. I think in the case of bcaa's they protect the muscle tissues from degrading, which ultimately means the body is having to expend more energy, even moreso if that person is required to get up out of bed and function even at a basic level.

I've also been taking high b12 as part of my new Dr Myhill supplements for the last week. And I started with q10 again because after 6 weeks of taking Ubiquinol my body started to act a bit strange. I am going to try ubiquinol again probably after I know I've actually had coronavirus.

I've isolated myself in my house, I'm only going out for food. Currently fighting something off, no idea if it's covid or not.

 

[minimus]

Researchers from Stanford, the University of Alabama Medical School, and the National Academy of Sciences published a document yesterday about the use of chloroquine to treat Covid-19:

"An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)"

As stated in the document, South Korean doctors treated Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine because chloroquine is not widely available there. It seemed to be effective. My understanding is that hydroxychloroquine has a better side effect profile than chloroquine.

Also, a study published a few days ago suggests that hydroxychloroquine was more effective in vitro than chloroquine. So these two drugs might be nearly interchangeable.

 

[Cipher]

Two very interesting papers!

https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/filvp6

https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fioraw

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Also, a study published a few days ago suggests that hydroxychloroquine was more effective in vitro than chloroquine. So these two drugs might be nearly interchangeable

and so: will our doctors provide Rx's for this item, and will our insurance cover it?

can we get it before we actually- need it. Thats what I desire- these things in my possession ready to deploy.

 

[Wayne]

chloroquine to treat Covid-19:

@minimus -- I just did a quick search on potential side effects of chloroquine. The list is rather frightening, especially for me, is that it can cause (or likely exacerbate) tinnitus, or ringing in the ears. I already have a severe case of tinnitus from taking just one dose of an anti-nausea medication, so I wouldn't even consider doing something like this; just not worth the risk. The side effects seem to reflect that it can have a very negative effect on our brain, cranial nerves, neurological system, and more. I would think people with ME/CFS would be more vulnerable to these side effects than the general population.

The side effects:

Along with its needed effects, chloroquine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking chloroquine:

Incidence not known

• Anxiety
• attempts at killing oneself
• back, leg, or stomach pains
• black, tarry stools
• bleeding gums
• blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin
• blood in the urine or stools
• blurred or decreased vision
• change in near or distance vision
• chest discomfort or pain
• chills
• cold sweats
• confusion
• continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
• cough
• dark urine
• diarrhea
• difficulty in focusing the eyes
• difficulty with speaking
• difficulty with swallowing
• disturbed color perception
• dizziness
• dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
• double vision
• drooling
• fast, slow, irregular, or pounding heartbeat
• feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
• feeling that others can hear your thoughts
• feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
• fever
• general tiredness and weakness
• halos around lights
• headache
• hearing loss
• inability to move the eyes
• increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
• joint or muscle pain
• large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, or sex organs
• light-colored stools
• loss of balance control
• lower back or side pain
• muscle trembling, jerking, or stiffness
• muscular pain, tenderness, wasting, or weakness
• night blindness
• nausea
• overbright appearance of lights
• painful or difficult urination
• pale skin
• pinpoint red spots on the skin
• puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
• red skin lesions, often with a purple center
• red, irritated eyes
• restlessness
• shuffling walk
• skin rash, hives, or itching
• sore throat
• sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
• sticking out of the tongue
• stiffness of the limbs
• sweating
• swollen or painful glands
• tightness in the chest
• trouble breathing
• tunnel vision
• twitching, twisting, or uncontrolled repetitive movements of the tongue, lips, face, arms, or legs
• uncontrolled movements, especially of the face, neck, and back
• unusual bleeding or bruising
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• upper right abdominal or stomach pain
• vomiting
• yellow eyes and skin

Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking chloroquine:

Symptoms of overdose

• Cold, clammy skin
• decreased urine
• drowsiness
• dry mouth
• fast, weak pulse
• increased thirst
• lightheadedness, dizziness, or fainting
• loss of appetite
• muscle pain or cramps
• numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The list is rather frightening, especially for me, is that it can cause (or likely exacerbate) tinnitus, or ringing in the ears.

EGAD and likely No Thanks.

Not exactly leaping up and down to try a new pharmaceutical...here lately....

the tinnitis I experience (coming on daily mid aft) is also somehow the cellophane feeling inside my brain. I don't like that feeling.

 

[minimus]

@minimus -- I just did a quick search on potential side effects of chloroquine. The list is rather frightening, especially for me, is that it can cause (or likely exacerbate) tinnitus, or ringing in the ears. I already have a severe case of tinnitus from taking just one dose of an anti-nausea medication, so I wouldn't even consider doing something like this; just not worth the risk.

Thanks @Wayne. It is important to be aware of all the side effects that chloroquine can cause. I am not recommending that ME/CFS patients take chloroquine. I was just following up on a previous post in which I relayed what Paul Cheney has written lately about Covid-19, including some evidence that quercetin and hydroxychloroquine might be effective. My understanding is that hydroxychloroquine has a better side effect profile than chloroquine, but it is certainly not benign. (It too can cause tinnitus, along with other side effects.) Quercetin seems benign only because it is a supplement, but it too may have negative side effects, especially if taken in high doses.

Of course, it would make most sense to avoid contracting SARS-Cov-2 in the first place through self-isolation, frequent hand washing, and frequent cleaning of surfaces, especially metal ones.

 

[Ecoclimber]

David Sinclair, PhD
@davidasinclair

Since my Harvard lab closed yesterday, I've been reading and interpreting this week's published papers on #COVID19. What follows is a thread of information, my interpretation, links to sources & predictions. Let's start with what you need to know

THREAD:

Treatments that seem to work are chloroquine (a cheap malarial drug), Gilliad's remdesivir with interferon-beta (in clinical trials from COV-19), plasma from recovered patients, and a steroid (methylprednisilone). Doctors in US are now using remdesivir off-label...

...New work out of China yesterday says COVID-19 might also involve abnormal blood production. CoV genes 1 & 8 are predicted to interfere with heme, the red compound in blood, by kicking out the iron....

...Would explain why chloroquine seems effective as a treatment Chloroquine is predicted to prevent orf1ab, ORF3a and ORF10 from attacking heme (red in red blood cells) and inhibit the binding of ORF8 to heme. Although 99% of the virus is seemingly stable, what's disturbing is ORF 1 and 8 are mutating the fastest...

It may explain why diabetics and elderly are more susceptible. Blood sugar levels usually increase as we get older, increasing the amount of glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c).

The authors suggest these people would be more susceptible to because the virus could more easily disrupt the heme in red blood cells.

If so, the virus is very smart: it destroys the lung so patients can't take up oxygen AND reduces the body's ability to carry oxygen. (For this & other reasons, you should eat healthily the next 2 years)

Would supplementing with iron or eating more food with high iron content help?

If this is correct, yes. More Vitamin C helps iron absorption.

@Wally
Eco

 

[FromHolland]

David Sinclair, PhD
@davidasinclair

Since my Harvard lab closed yesterday, I've been reading and interpreting this week's published papers on #COVID19. What follows is a thread of information, my interpretation, links to sources & predictions. Let's start with what you need to know

THREAD:

Treatments that seem to work are chloroquine (a cheap malarial drug), Gilliad's remdesivir with interferon-beta (in clinical trials from COV-19), plasma from recovered patients, and a steroid (methylprednisilone). Doctors in US are now using remdesivir off-label...

...New work out of China yesterday says COVID-19 might also involve abnormal blood production. CoV genes 1 & 8 are predicted to interfere with heme, the red compound in blood, by kicking out the iron....

...Would explain why chloroquine seems effective as a treatment Chloroquine is predicted to prevent orf1ab, ORF3a and ORF10 from attacking heme (red in red blood cells) and inhibit the binding of ORF8 to heme. Although 99% of the virus is seemingly stable, what's disturbing is ORF 1 and 8 are mutating the fastest...

It may explain why diabetics and elderly are more susceptible. Blood sugar levels usually increase as we get older, increasing the amount of glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c).

The authors suggest these people would be more susceptible to because the virus could more easily disrupt the heme in red blood cells.

If so, the virus is very smart: it destroys the lung so patients can't take up oxygen AND reduces the body's ability to carry oxygen. (For this & other reasons, you should eat healthily the next 2 years)

Would supplementing with iron or eating more food with high iron content help?

If this is correct, yes. More Vitamin C helps iron absorption.

@Wally
Eco

Where did you read this? Can you pls share a link?