- Messages
- 70
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
"Back in 1994 when I was focusing on learning as much as I could about vitamin B12, an experiment came to mind, which I decided to try on myself. I saw a bottle of DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) on the shelf of my health food store and remembered that DMSO is not only absorbed directly through the skin, but it also would carry with it any impurities dissolved in it. This can be a serious problem if the impurities are toxic. However, I also realized that if I dissolved vitamin B12 in it, it might carry it directly to my blood stream through my skin. I tried it and the results were dramatic for me, far greater than any impact I had ever felt from oral or sublingual tablets. I put some of my vitamin B12 tablets obtained at a health food store into a two liquid ounce bottle with an eyedropper and filled it with DMSO. It took a couple of days for the tablets to fall apart. Once they did, I put an eyedropper load on one arm and rubbed it in. In approximately one hour I started to feel very good, which was a sense of general strength and well being. This lasted all day. When I tried it again the next day, I got no such feeling. I also didn't experience any bad effects either. Since I knew that approximately one months requirement of B12 is stored in your liver, I reasoned that my system was simply fully supplied with Vitamin B12 and that I wouldn't need to use it again for a month or so. When I tried it again a month or so later, I got a significant boost from it again. Since then I have continued to use it on a once every month or so basis."
Best regards,
Rich
I'm using a methyl/adenosyl mixture from the Australian b12oils folks. I don't think there's any risk to your teeth from the transdermals. The risk comes from sublinguals that contain citric acid or other acids.Is anyone doing transdermal adenosylB12? I am preparing to restart it and read that it can also erode teeth.
@forbius how have you gone with the search for slow-release transdermal?
@Freddd & others, how might this - that the liver contains enough B12 for a month - relate to the oft-observed effect in the Freddd Protocol where levels of health take quite a while to build - often on increasing doses; then you can scale down the doses after a while? And thereafter, if you stop taking any supplements, it takes a while for your health to decline again?
daltons, and B12 hydroxocobalamin is 1346 daltons.
Now the 500 dalton rule for transdermal absorption states that molecules above 500 daltons cannot get absorbed through the skin. So B12 will not like get absorbed on ordinary skin.
Similarly, the rule for sublingual is that absorption only occurs with molecules less than 500 daltons.
It has been stated that the nasal mucosa can absorb molecules up to 2000 daltons, so by snorting pure B12 powder intranasally, or using a B12 nasal spray, you should be able to absorb quite a bit.
I've been experimenting with stimulating the upper repiratory epithelium using nasopharygeal (NPG) swabs
Snorting up powder from a finely crushed B12 tablet via a drinking straw. (Best not performed outside a police department
Yes. Perhaps this is a better illustration at time 0:24.If I understand, correctly, you are using a nasopharyngeal swab (which is like a long Q-Tip) to place some vitamin B12 on your nasopharynx, using the procedure shown at tim
I have benefited quite a bit by stimulating this area x2 daily using nothing more than a saline saturated swab rotating 3 times clockwise, three times counterclockwise. This stimulates instant mucous secretion and also removal of an invisible area of epithelium, stimulating healthy cell turnover in the airway mucosa. I no longer wake up congested at night and hopefully this will lead to discontinuation of Afrin that I have had to use daily for many years because of this congestion. All other medications have failed. Afrin was a last resort and realized not recommended for long term use. Again, nothing else was working and after 2 years, I realize plugged passages where highly detrimentally to my breathing during sleep. Tradeoff.Is there a theoretical reason why applying B12 to the nasopharynx will have different effects to say snorting B12 powder into the nasal cavity?
On a related subject: this thread details the application of zinc chloride to the nasopharynx in patients with an ME/CFS-like illness appearing after HPV vaccination. In such patients, zinc chloride on the nasopharynx was found to be curative in 25% of cases:
Sorry to dredge up a very old post, but in case anyone still sees the original post: it's clear to me that B12 somehow circumvents this 500 dalton limitation. During the worst of my B12 hunger, I would wake in the night with terrors and near-seizure muscle thrashing. I could (and often did) lay there for hours suffering and unable to go back to sleep. Then I discovered a 1mg sublingual knocked it right out. I would pop the sublingual between my lip and gum, and literally within seconds I would feel the tension drain out of my muscles. Within 2-3 minutes I would drop off to sleep.UPDATE: some of the above methods may not work, because the molecular weight of B12 methylcobalamin is 1344 daltons, and B12 hydroxocobalamin is 1346 daltons.
Now the 500 dalton rule for transdermal absorption states that molecules above 500 daltons cannot get absorbed through the skin. So B12 will not like get absorbed on ordinary skin.
Similarly, the rule for sublingual is that absorption only occurs with molecules less than 500 daltons.
Then there is the Australian B12 oil that many here have used.
The rule is for hydrophobics, but not for our patricular technology. We can get molecules of molecular weight over 150,000 through the skin. We have data published by our consultant and patented on 150K IgG, insulin, IG1, LHRH, all the B12 analogues, and many little peptides.
He has data for weight loss with insulin and IgF1, and also anti-inflammatory activity for anti-TNF monoclonal antibodies.
Buy some product and watch is disappear into the skin.
We have also had considerable debate with a couple of the big guys in transdermal drug delivery, but I can tell you yes, the material does penetrate the skin. It disappears (it is extremely red) rapidly into warm dry skin and also you get sufficient material across for delivery of B12 for PA and also for ASD and for CFS.
Many CFS individuals have basically sucked the death out of lozenges to no avail, but have had success on the oils.
I agree with them. Before I found the oil products, I was using 25-35 mg/day of sublinguals, and still not controlling my symptoms. When I started using the oils I finally got my symptoms totally under control, using only 5-7 mg/day.So it is interesting that they think sublingual B12 tablets are not that good, compared to the B12 oils.
If I understand, correctly, you are using a nasopharyngeal swab (which is like a long Q-Tip) to place some vitamin B12 on your nasopharynx, using the procedure shown at timecode 0:45 in this video.
Is there a theoretical reason why applying B12 to the nasopharynx will have different effects to say snorting B12 powder into the nasal cavity?
On a related subject: this thread details the application of zinc chloride to the nasopharynx in patients with an ME/CFS-like illness appearing after HPV vaccination. In such patients, zinc chloride on the nasopharynx was found to be curative in 25% of cases:
Treating Nasopharynx Inflammation With Zinc Chloride Cures 25% of ME/CFS Cases Triggered by HPV Vaccination.