Active B12 Protocol Basics

[Freddd]

Here's a question: do you stick to using only one form of Folate at a time? I was thinking to take the 5mg of Methylpro and topping up at night as I often do with a couple of Solgar 800mcg? OR: if, as you say, the body needs to switch every now and then, is it better to limit use at any given time to only one source?

Thanks...

I don't know. I recognized the fail of one brand after 2 days of a symptom. Then I have recognized it several more times and several other people too. Barely enough to see if it works that way for others or which others. If you trial it several times and one fails and switching fixes it good. If both stop working perhaps a 3rd one would reset one or both of them. If you trial it for a while and several; occurrences or a year without the problem that is worth some others replicating it.. However, it took years of one brand use to have it happen the first time. Now it is about every 3 to 6 months for me.

 

[Freddd]

@Kathevans , are you taking any digestive supplements (e.g. HCL, enzymes, probiotics) to help address potential malabsorption issues?

A refrigerated probiotic VSL#3 worked wonders for me after terrible antibiotic responses and liver damage possibly sensitized to antibiotics by being deficiency of copper and other trace minerals. However, it took a couple of years for my liver to apparently heal from all that. Check your symptoms against the lists of non-healing symptoms and then the much shorter refeeding syndrome symptoms. This could tell you a lot. Healing can be miserable. If it is 10,000 steps to being healed, it can be a long trip to fully heal.

 

[Freddd]

After taking zantac for nearly a decade for reflux when I probably needed more acid rather than less, I ended up on antibiotics for an infection on my foot. Within 6 months I'd developed the beginnings of fibromyalgia pain, non-recovery of muscles after exertion, and a strange infection on my tongue that no doctor has ever been able to diagnose and that has only grown worse over the years. The boron is clearly having an effect on this, hence the belching and a worsening of my tongue. I know it is also an anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

Of course, it has also greatly helped the stiffness of my hands and fingers and has kept a second trigger finger from developing even as it has lessened the effects of the first. My hands are more functional than they might otherwise be, I have no doubt.

I've been working on a lot of trace minerals and am about to do my first Doctor's Data Hair Elements Test--for a look at general levels of minerals. The NutrEval gives some results, too. I've been taking copper myself, at about 2mg a day and have kept my zinc to no higher than about 35mg. My alternative doctor recommended the copper saying that the copper:zinc ratio had something to do with a-fib, which I have had from time to time--though it is largely under control at this point except when I am in the throws of refeeding something. Before I found this site a cardiologist was advising that I have an ablation. There's no question of that now. B-12 was the biggest remedy to my heart issues.

Thank you, Fred. If I didn't understand things such as refeeding, what would I do? Now I just recognize it for what it is and I just take more of the supplement...

@Kathevans,

Boron deficiency also can allow vaginal infections Not recognizing refeeding syndrome means "incurable" syndromes and many symptoms, secondary symptoms, from just about any chronic disease or injury. It took me 15 years of healing and many setbacks to get it right, 35,000 hours of work on it since 1978 when I started looking. I solved the hypothetical problem and trial dessicated liver (100 tablets daily) and 6 months later refeeding syndrome stumped me.

 

[Methyl90]

Good morning,

I state that I am not yet in possession of any genetic test that can identify my polymorphisms or genetic mutation but I need some clarifications.

4 years ago, after a period of fasting in which I had a great time both mentally and physically, I began to experience total metabolic blockage and even mental illness with serious illnesses. There were days when body temperature came down with the heartbeat. Obviously I have not obtained any benefit from any psychiatric drug and today is a month that I'm trying to act on methylation with some small result. I admit that the do it yourself in these things is not the best choice but in Italy there is no one able to follow me!

I am using Jarrow 1000mcg methylfolate and the sublingual B121 Nowmeates 1000mcg but I think that after a month the 1000mcg of B12 are few because I have days that I feel like a bomb and I feel that methylation is efficient (energy, desire to do, motivation, help others, empathy, emotions) and some that are so depressed, without both physical and mental energy.

My face literally changes with falling cheeks and lost gaze.

I have a high homocysteine of blood tests but I can assure you that my cycle of Krebs is definitely not good at all.

To all this I imagine the lack of glutathione or in any case a very rapid exhaustion correlated.

Is what I wrote correct? Do you advise me to increase the sublingual B12 dose or take a supplement directly (I am using Jarrow and Now Foods) with a higher dose of 2500-5000?

I think I'm on the right track with the B12.

Thanks for those who want to help me.

 

[Freddd]

Good morning,

I state that I am not yet in possession of any genetic test that can identify my polymorphisms or genetic mutation but I need some clarifications.

4 years ago, after a period of fasting in which I had a great time both mentally and physically, I began to experience total metabolic blockage and even mental illness with serious illnesses. There were days when body temperature came down with the heartbeat. Obviously I have not obtained any benefit from any psychiatric drug and today is a month that I'm trying to act on methylation with some small result. I admit that the do it yourself in these things is not the best choice but in Italy there is no one able to follow me!

I am using Jarrow 1000mcg methylfolate and the sublingual B121 Nowmeates 1000mcg but I think that after a month the 1000mcg of B12 are few because I have days that I feel like a bomb and I feel that methylation is efficient (energy, desire to do, motivation, help others, empathy, emotions) and some that are so depressed, without both physical and mental energy.

My face literally changes with falling cheeks and lost gaze.

I have a high homocysteine of blood tests but I can assure you that my cycle of Krebs is definitely not good at all.

To all this I imagine the lack of glutathione or in any case a very rapid exhaustion correlated.

Is what I wrote correct? Do you advise me to increase the sublingual B12 dose or take a supplement directly (I am using Jarrow and Now Foods) with a higher dose of 2500-5000?

I think I'm on the right track with the B12.

Thanks for those who want to help me.

@Methyl90,

I went through decades of not healing and now I'm in a different layer of stuff, so far working on the micronutrients. ANyway, it;''s been a long strange journey. Below you will find the list of symptoms by nutrient, and an up to date list of refeeding symptoms. THose things starting up or worsening after methylation starts. You will need potassium gluconate that dissolves in water which I find is easiest for me. ANy questions and I 'll reply, I'm sure there will be some. On this thread and a few other threads you will find lots and lots of questions, and fears and answers. Good luck. Pick what works best for you based on actual responses. Good hea;lth to you.


https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

 

[Methyl90]

Thanks Freddd,

I really appreciate your intervention that motivates me to move forward.

Today I hired 2000mcg of MethylB12 in a single dose under the tongue but I absolutely can not get to 45 minutes as described in the first post on page 1.

Can it depend on the brand? It's Now Foods but I'm waiting for Jarrow in 2500mcg version.

In any case I had a good lucidity and mental alertness throughout the day. Physically quite well ... certainly working I still have it for many months in my opinion.

I can tell you that I notice very often at 17:00 in the evening an eye dryness accompanied by a slight cognitive decline. I know you refer to the intake of potassium with high doses of B12. I tried to consume bitter cocoa and a banana that are very rich but does not seem to change the situation.

Or maybe it's probably just a slowing down of methylation.

What are we talking about? because checking the Cronometer application are around 5-7gr of daily potassium. It's enough ?

I also took the B2 and the B6 but now I suspended them.

I forgot that I had night tachycardia and internal agitation, music in my head. I do not know if it is related to hypopotassemia, B12 or methylfolate.

Thank you and forgive me for the many questions ... but understand the way after a life of money spent and visits ... it's amazing.

 

[garyfritz]

Today I hired 2000mcg of MethylB12 in a single dose under the tongue but I absolutely can not get to 45 minutes as described in the first post on page 1.

Most sublinguals don't last very long under the tongue. Put it between your lip and gum and it will last much longer.

 

[Methyl90]

Most sublinguals don't last very long under the tongue. Put it between your lip and gum and it will last much longer.

under the upper lip do you mean?

 

[Freddd]

under the upper lip do you mean?

I find under the upper lip, there is room for 3 on each side if you are using a higher dose. Then 2 hours will give about maximum ON a series of thousands of trials of both sublingual-sublabial and injections using urine colorimetry I found that the range of results is 10% to 33% on 45 minutes to 120 minutes. The typical results were 15%-25%. Which is enough, if the MeCbl is good in qualitative aspects, to have wide ranging healing from the MeCbl distributed via diffusion, and for a few hours at least provides more cell starting. LIke injections, the passively absorbed MeCbl or AdoCbl has usually 98% to 99% excretion in 48 hours. A 5mg tablet could be absorbed in the range of a 1000 mcg injection. Done IM that injection can get a half hour of CNS penetration at highest serum levels for short while. An 7.5 mg subcutaneous injection will give the same high serum level of 8 hours or more.allowing a lot more penetration. A 5 to 10 mg sublingual /sublabial for 2 hours could give a CNS penetration for some hours

 

[garyfritz]

under the upper lip do you mean?

Personally I used 1/4 of a Country Life 5000mg tablet, behind my lower lip. Worked well for me.

 

[Methyl90]

Personally I used 1/4 of a Country Life 5000mg tablet, behind my lower lip. Worked well for me.

Maybe it's me that I'm not capable but for example the Jarrow 2500mcg whole I struggle to keep it under the upper lip. However, compared to Now Foods this seems to dissolve more slowly.

 

[garyfritz]

Lower lip works better for me. It stays in all by itself. I generally needed B 12 in the middle of the night, and I could just pop the Country Life in there and fall asleep again.

 

[Methyl90]

Lower lip works better for me. It stays in all by itself. I generally needed B 12 in the middle of the night, and I could just pop the Country Life in there and fall asleep again.

Many advise not to take methylated B12 after 12-13pm because it could create problems with sleep.

In your case it improves it? Currently I'm finding it good to break individual micro doses around 500-600mcg. In total at the moment they are at about 3000mcg with 1000mcg of methylfolate.

Only today I tried to take the last dose around 16:00 PM.

Let's see how the night will proceed.

I am very confused with methylfolate doses.

Your experiences?

Thank you

 

[garyfritz]

Many advise not to take methylated B12 after 12-13pm because it could create problems with sleep.
In your case it improves it?

Very much so. For about 4-5 years -- caused, I believe, by a large mercury exposure when a filling degraded and fell apart -- my sleep was terrible. For quite a while I would wake about 2-5am almost every night with practically full-body seizures: thrashing (way beyond tossing & turning) and tearing the bed apart. All in a half-awake nightmarish state. It was miserable. At other times it wasn't quite so dramatic but I would lay in bed feeling like I could hang from the ceiling by my fingernails -- just totally stressed out and wired, muscles tensed. I could lay like that for hours and and there was no WAY I could sleep.

Then I discovered B12. When I was in one of those states, I could pop 1/4 of a 5000mcg Country Life B12 and just feel the tension drain out of my body. Literally within a minute or three, I'd be asleep.

I was taking about 30,000 mcg of Country Life B12 per day, and still not completely controlling my systems. Then I found the B12 oil. (See this thread for more than you ever wanted to know about it.) That was a much more effective way of delivering large doses of B12. 1 dose in the morning carried me through the day; 2 doses before bed and I slept like a baby. I used the oil for about 3 years.

The sleep problems stopped as soon as I removed my mercury amalgam fillings. The last one came out almost exactly a year ago, Dec. 4, and I haven't used any B12 oil since early January. I very rarely need any Country Life. Occasionally (like maybe once a month or less) I'll wake and feel a bit wired and on-edge, and B12 seems to help that.

Methylfolate had no real effect on me. I think my problem was mercury, not methylation.

 

[Methyl90]

Very much so. For about 4-5 years -- caused, I believe, by a large mercury exposure when a filling degraded and fell apart -- my sleep was terrible. For quite a while I would wake about 2-5am almost every night with practically full-body seizures: thrashing (way beyond tossing & turning) and tearing the bed apart. All in a half-awake nightmarish state. It was miserable. At other times it wasn't quite so dramatic but I would lay in bed feeling like I could hang from the ceiling by my fingernails -- just totally stressed out and wired, muscles tensed. I could lay like that for hours and and there was no WAY I could sleep.

Then I discovered B12. When I was in one of those states, I could pop 1/4 of a 5000mcg Country Life B12 and just feel the tension drain out of my body. Literally within a minute or three, I'd be asleep.

I was taking about 30,000 mcg of Country Life B12 per day, and still not completely controlling my systems. Then I found the B12 oil. (See this thread for more than you ever wanted to know about it.) That was a much more effective way of delivering large doses of B12. 1 dose in the morning carried me through the day; 2 doses before bed and I slept like a baby. I used the oil for about 3 years.

The sleep problems stopped as soon as I removed my mercury amalgam fillings. The last one came out almost exactly a year ago, Dec. 4, and I haven't used any B12 oil since early January. I very rarely need any Country Life. Occasionally (like maybe once a month or less) I'll wake and feel a bit wired and on-edge, and B12 seems to help that.

Methylfolate had no real effect on me. I think my problem was mercury, not methylation.

Hi Gary,

Thank you so much for bringing back your past experience.

All this for me is really a great help.

I wanted to ask all members and some questions to make mistakes:

Is potassium gluconate the best form of potassium? potassium citrate does not have the same effect?

Since when did you start the B12 protocol at which methylfolate dosage did you arrive?

How can I manage B2 and B6?

When I read your dosages of B12 I do not understand if my (current 3000mcg) is low or in any case I can have big benefits in the long run keeping this or at most rise to 5000mcg. I repeat that I have a lot of confusion about how to manage the methylfolate dosage combined with B12.


I have had side effects from Throne Methyl plus, can it be due to B12 which is oral and has not been assimilated?

I have moments when my temperature drops, chills and slight visual obfuscation with slight agitation. Could it be low potassium?

Yesterday it happened after the consumption of bitter cocoa and banana.

Every help is always welcome!
Thank you

 

[garyfritz]

Be a little careful with potassium. Too much can cause hyperkalemia which can mess up e.g. coronary muscles and can actually kill you. That's why the US limits potassium pills to 99mg of elemental potassium. A few hundred mg at a time should be OK -- you get several hundred mg in a banana or an avocado, but it's delivered more gradually than in a pill. Potassium is also a bit corrosive to mucus membranes. So for example you wouldn't want to get a potassium pill stuck in your throat. If you dissolve powder in water and drink it, it will irritate your esophagus. Too much can cause esophageal spasms or even scarring. It can also cause stomach upset. Gluconate seems to be a bit easier to tolerate than citrate. I'd avoid potassium chloride.

I started B12 back in about 2013. I experimented with methylfolate, going as high as 30mg/day, and I never felt any difference from it. So I quit taking it except for some included in the B multivitamin I was taking.

3000mcg is not low, if you're actually absorbing much of it. Supposedly people only need about 3mcg, but some of us have conditions that require a lot more. Different forms have different levels of absorption.

• B12 in pill form has VERY low absorption -- the molecule is large and hard for your body to assimilate. Most people who need B12 find another mechanism.
• Sublinguals are good, but be aware it takes *time* for the B12 to gradually soak in. So if you put a sublingual under your tongue and suck on it, it will be gone in a few minutes and you'll hardly absorb any of it. That's why it works better to put it between lip & gum where it dissolves slowly. That works better but you'll still only get maybe 5% absorption or a bit more.
• Injections have basically 100% absorption, but they have obvious drawbacks.
• The B12 oil I mentioned is tested to produce 80% absorption, and it's very simple to use. It delivers a steady stream of B12 to your bloodstream, for 4-8 hours, as it soaks into your skin. I think it's by far the best way to deliver large amounts of B12.

 

[Methyl90]

Very interesting oil! But ship to Italy ?

 

[garyfritz]

They ship from Australia to the US, so I'm sure they can find Italy.

 

[Methyl90]

@garyfritz @Freddd

How can I integrate SAMe, carnitine fumarate and adenosylcobalamin if I have not done it before?

Now I use only Methylfolate and methylb12.

I also aim to get back to the gym and make some physical effort so they could help me.

I'm noticing that every day that passes the general energy increases slightly but every time I get up in the morning from the bed I always seem to start over. Is it normal and is it part of the game or does something happen in sleep?

 

[Methyl90]

I wanted to ask some questions to all those who have already passed through these symptoms:

I often have songs that start out in my head alone.

Can it be a symptom of excess dopamine or too high a methylfolate? at the moment i take two dose of 400mcg methylfolate and 3000mcg of methylb12 in 3 daily assumptions.

Other times, on the other hand, I have a sense of internal restlessness with the desire to get drunk in food as if I were looking for a reward in the short term.

I remember that I had these episodes of tyrant even very small and never resolved.

I do not think it depends on low blood sugar levels because the symptoms would be different.

How do you adjust to this methylfolate and B12 relationship?

Last night I consumed a large amount of cabbage (sauerkraut) cooked.

I do not understand if the cause of my strong post-dinner drowsiness is due to this vegetable for the content of folinic acid or the sulfur that somehow blocked something in methylation.

I did not eat anything different but before the episode I had this compulsive desire to eat a lot.