Active B12 Protocol Basics

[juniemarie]

@whodathunkit Don't know if this is related to my issue but I read this and yes my skin does have a salty taste, and yes my pets and friends pets do lick me LOL
People with low aldosterone sufferer from “Salt Wasting”, a medical term describing sodium leaving the body. When sodium is excreted it takes water with it, causing frequent urination and dehydration. The body will struggle to maintain a proper balance of sodium and potassium in the blood – and these levels often appear normal on blood tests. But within the cells of the body, improper balance of these minerals can lead to fatigue, and is the reason why the pupils will fluctuate when performing the “flashlight test”. Persons with low levels of aldosterone crave salt. If they will take a minimum of 1/2 teaspoon of Sea Salt daily their symptoms improve. The “Salt Wasting” still occurs, but the symptoms of improper electrolyte balance will often improve, and they will feel more energy.”
But….you have to be careful, as too much sodium supplementation can drive aldosterone down even lower, and can increase your thirst all over again. A more important supplement can be potassium, which supports aldosterone levels, especially if potassium levels are low.

 

[whodathunkit]

@juniemarie: Do you have adrenal problems that you know of? Many CFS/ME people do.

Aldosterone is also an issue with people who have adrenal fatigue, although the physiology of it all escapes me at the moment. I've been kind of bad today with my diet and I'm having a little bit of brain fog. LOL

Symptoms of hypoadrenism include fatigue, poor stamina, exercise intolerance, a lot of CFS stuff. But things that specifically point to adrenal fatigue are poor energy in the daytime then getting a second wind between 6p.m and 9p.m., a hard time getting going in the morning, and waking up between 3a.m and 5a.m. and not being able to go back to sleep until 7a.m. or later.

Getting a formal diagnosis of hypoadrenism usually involves a 24 hour saliva test that tracks your cortisol and melatonin. But you can usually get a pretty good idea of whether or not it might be one of your problems from going over a symptoms list specifically for adrenal fatigue.

Dr. James Wilson has a good book out on it, too. I can't remember the name of it right now and I can't lay my hands on it although I know it's in this house somewhere. LOL I don't really care for some of his recommendations, and his products are not that good, IMHO, but the book is good and informative. Worth a read if you can get a copy.

It *is* important to keep a balance of sodium and potassium so maybe the best thing you can do is experiment a bit and see what works for you.

 

[juniemarie]

@whodathunkit I just assumed I have adrenal problems since I have CFS Fatigue and poor energy for sure don't have the energy in evening though just the opposite wind down pretty early in the evening and sleep through the night. Mornings are usually very slooooooow but they have been much better since the methylation protocol.
I will cut back the potassium and see if I notice any difference. I guess I always thought, once I found out about my methylation problems, that it would help the adrenals get better but that may be wishful thinking on my part
I have read Wilsons book and did his whole temperature thing but could never capture a temp.

 

[Moshi]

Whodathunkit - I appreciate your response! Thank You!
Well, I have already quit the BH4 and the Liposomal Gluthatione. I really suspect the Glutathione as being the villain in this story. Supplementary Glutathione is controversial - some doctors and experts recommend it, others don't....I was hesitant to use it but eventually decided to go for a small amount anyway....
Andy Cutler writes in Amalgam Illness that a few things, including Gluthatione, is contraindicated in mercury toxic people (p.129) I wish I would have taken more careful note of this. I suspect Gluthatione is what may have tipped the scales....
I have decreased my dose of glandulars and slightly increased M-Folate+MCbl+Potassium....waiting for a positive response....
In regards to my chelation regime....Like I said, I feel that I have entered the "dump phase" and that my system is flooding in mercury at this point...chelation is getting increasingly difficult, but I really wonder if this is the right time to take a break from chelation...? Should I let my body rest....or should I try to "push through"??? I am "scheduled" to add ALA for the first time in my upcoming round. I do 4-day rounds with 10 day breaks in between.
Re: fluid intake and salt - I do drink a lot, especially water with lemon and herbal teas, I do not add salt as my sodium levels are a bit on the high side, but perhaps I should anyway...?
Thanks again for your input and advice....I am still limping and my legs are very weak and numb....hoping....praying....

 

[ahmo]

@Moshi

n regards to my chelation regime....Like I said, I feel that I have entered the "dump phase" and that my system is flooding in mercury at this point...chelation is getting increasingly difficult, but I really wonder if this is the right time to take a break from chelation...?

Do you have enough things to bind and eliminate what you're dumping? I'm finding that metal dumping is releasing a lot of ammonia. Doesn't lead to neurropathy in me, but certainly spaciness. Good aids are lysine, yucca, ornithine, arginine, citrulline, butyrate.

What about chlorella to bind and help eliminate? clay, charcoal...I primarily use clay and charcoal via footbaths, also including bicarb.But in big dumping, oral charcoal, clay. Full bath with big amounts of bicarb. Chlorella.

Also, if you're dumping, coffee enemas. I've been doing CE intensively for 4 months. Over time I began adding many things to these. I now use *plain* water for #1 and 4, w/ 2 sequential coffee in the middle. I'm adding chlorella + lysine, ornithine, arginine, citrulline to #1 and 4. I use self-testing for dosages. Today that included 2 T chlorella in #1, 3 in #4!

http://www.mygutsy.com/the-ultimate-liver-detox-coffee-enemas/

http://www.sawilsons.com/library.htm

 

[whodathunkit]

@Moshi: Since you're already doing rounds of chelation and taking nice breaks, I'd add ALA per your schedule already. Be prepared, however...it's pretty potent, and can make your pee smell like a swamp.

Have you had your sodium levels checked since you began chelating? I ask because I'm wondering if they're still high after a round or two of chelation. Salt *can* be remarkably effective in mitigating the symptoms of metal detox, but I believe it's the chloride that's more helpful when it comes to detoxing metals, not so much the sodium (although both play a part).

However, if your sodium levels are already high, you should only add salt if you are comfortable with the suggestion.

Also, thanks for the tip about Cutler. I haven't read up on him in a few years,but I thought he *liked* glutathione. Really interesting!

 

[Moshi]

Ahmo, thanks for advice!
I do use physillum, yucca, fiber, probiotics etc. I also do a minor "charcoal flush" immediately after each chelation round, followed by a bentonite clay bath. I have tried a few coffe enemas and will do some more, cannot do them every day though, not even every week.
I really appreciate everyone's help and input....this is where chelation got really scarey for me. Have anyone else here experienced serious leg neuropathy.....? I am really trying to figure out if this is due to 1) mercury "dump phase" 2) donut hole folate insufficiency 3) Potassium deficiency or similar 4) toxic reactions due to Gluthatione supplementation.... Or, something else. Or, all of the above?
One minute I am determined to continue chelation, even to do rounds more often....the other I am thinking "this is dangerous, Chelation may have inflicted permanent and irreversible damage, must stop! Gaaahh! Feel more lonely and confused than ever. And scared.

 

[Moshi]

Whodathunkit, thanks again!
I am doing a (relatively, I think?) high dose of 30mg DMPS every 6 hours.....my plan was to add a tiny dose of 3mg ALA every 3 hours on my next round...My intuition (not to be trusted anymore?) tells me to to add ALA, but to go very low and slow with it.
Sodium levels was checked when I had just begun chelation, a bit on the high side then, don't know how it is now...added some (very little) himalaya salt to my lemon water today as per your advice, tasted nasty!

 

[whodathunkit]

@Moshi: salt in lemon water doesn't taste good, for sure. Even to me, and I like salt water.

But if salt in plain cool water doesn't taste good that could be an indication you don't need it. Just go with whatever you're comfortable with.

This just occurred to me about ALA...it's sulfur based. So is glutathione. So you might want to be extra careful with it.

 

[Moshi]

@whodathunkit; Aha, salt+lemon=no good, I try it w/out lemon, thanks!
ALA is sulphur....yes, that's right....but so is DMPS right? Perhaps not in the same way? I have tolerated DMPS quite well for almost three months....
I feel like I'm hijacking this thread at the moment, but that's because I know that there are a lot of really knowledgeable people here, and I am just desperate to hear something that will calm me down right now....My leg neuropathy is so terrifying to me right now....!

 

[rowan1]

Hi Freddd, i just wanted to ask what route i can take being as the methylfolate made me super angry. have a feeling the b12 is doing it too. i have COMT/MAO mutations and heard ben lynch say those effects could happen to people in my situation.
Is there another route?
many thanks

 

[futuritycarpaccio]

Hi guys/gals, I just wanted to ask if to follow the Active B12 protocol and support the mitochondria, do I really need to buy all of those supplements in the first page?

I was thinking of
Jarrows BComplex
MethylCobalamin Sublingual+AdenosylCobalamin sublingual
Acetyl L Carnitine
Coq 10
DRibose

Would it be safe to try this for lets say a month, and would these be enough to understand if it's helpful?

 

[LynnJ]

Has Freddd ever commented on how well liquid B12 (mega) drops work?

 

[acrosstheveil]

these doses of methylfolate that some of you are suggesting are very big. I can't tolerate above 2mg of methylfolate a day and I don't believe it is due to methyltrapping. I get severe overstimulation and OCD . My allergies also seem to get worse.

 

[Freddd]

Has Freddd ever commented on how well liquid B12 (mega) drops work?

Hi LynnJ,

I couldn't find any way to keep it in place for 45-120 minutes for lots of absorption to take place. also in an aqueous solution, MeCbl breaks down to an HyCbl-AqCbl equilibrium cycle with a few minutes exposure to room light. I don't know if there is any way to stabilize it as it is a quantum event from a photon impact.

 

[Freddd]

these doses of methylfolate that some of you are suggesting are very big. I can't tolerate above 2mg of methylfolate a day and I don't believe it is due to methyltrapping. I get severe overstimulation and OCD . My allergies also seem to get worse.

Allergies increasing is generally due to paradoxical folate deficiency (mostly partial methylation block). The overstimulation and OCD is due to a different cause. Part of the perplexing paradoxical aspect of all this is that there are perhaps 6 or 7 triage levels of how folate and B12 get distributed in the body so one can have effectiveness at one level at the same time as deficiency on another level. Perhaps some other balancing could be helpful.

 

[Freddd]

Hi guys/gals, I just wanted to ask if to follow the Active B12 protocol and support the mitochondria, do I really need to buy all of those supplements in the first page?

I was thinking of
Jarrows BComplex
MethylCobalamin Sublingual+AdenosylCobalamin sublingual
Acetyl L Carnitine
Coq 10
DRibose

Would it be safe to try this for lets say a month, and would these be enough to understand if it's helpful?

The brands have changed in some cases. There is a lot of progress in understanding since that was written and unfortunately there is also some misunderstandings obvious in your list. So to make it short everything in your list is wrong for starting with and most was never corrent.

So, A low strength b-complex limited to NO FOLIC ACID, NO CYANOCOBALAMIN, 20mg max b1, 30-40 max b2 and 100mg max b3 total of 2 doses in a day.
Vitamins A, C, D, E, magnesium, selenium, calcium, zinc, potassium (and that must be on hand and then titrated to need, maybe 200-3000mg a day for a lot of people), omega3 oils, lecithin
Enzymatic Therapy B12 infusion MeCbl,
Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex (AdoCbl)
L-methylfolate (Solgar 800mcg is a good one and half the price of some brands, many people end up at near 15mg a day after titration and balancing if they healing going well)
L-carnitine fumarate (Drs Best or other brand of carnitine by Sigma Tau)

CoQ10 can cause immediate high blood pressure during perhaps 1st year,
D-Ribose is not a first round nutrient. Its for reinforcing the ATP pathway if it isn't sufficient after all the bnasics and Deadlock Quartet.
Acetyl L-carnitine works well for about 10%, LCF for about 90%. A mixture doesn't work..

 

[garyfritz]

Freddd, I picked up some of the Enzymatic Therapy B12 yesterday, but it only seems to come in 1mg sizes. I'd go through 30x1mg in 2 days at the rate I take the Country Life. Have you found the ET to absorb better than CL, so you don't need as much of the ET?

 

[Freddd]

Freddd, I picked up some of the Enzymatic Therapy B12 yesterday, but it only seems to come in 1mg sizes. I'd go through 30x1mg in 2 days at the rate I take the Country Life. Have you found the ET to absorb better than CL, so you don't need as much of the ET?

Hi Garyfritz,

I just finished a 3 month long term test of CL Methyl B12. It dissolved way to fast. I was able to get somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10 the absorption of ENZY. I find that 5mg of ENZY held for 2 hours can absorb as high as 33% and typically about 25%. I could never get 10 of the CL 5mg holding as long as I could to equal 10 of the ENZY, or even most times to even equal 5 of the ENZY. After being able to hold steady in my CNS for 2 years on the ENZY, 3 months on the CL and I was back in the rapidly return CNS symptoms and degenerating CNS nerves, numb feet, bad balance, run over by truck feeling in morning, depressed etc. The first 10mg injection in 2 years gave me CNS startup all over again and the depression was gone within 12 hours, that next morning. Further, the "run over by truck" wake u[p feeling was gone and the pain in my feet was excruciating as feeling started to return and lots of neurological brightening. Such fast response let me know that I wasn't getting enough into my CNS and that absorption is proportionate to time in contact with oral mucosa.

Taking 3 bottles of Enzy a day costs 1/2 as much per month as many compounding pharmacies charge for 900mg of injectable MeCbl a month to keep price in perspective. How much is staying out of a wheelchair, not being depressed, not getting dementia, having short term and long term memory, not having constant annoying multi sensory hallucinations (noise), having a sense of taste and smell, eyes that work

 

[garyfritz]

Hmmm. So the Enzy is absorbed 5-10x better than the CL. I'm taking 20mg/day of CL, so 2-4mg of the Enzy should be equivalent?

But you have to hold it for 2 HOURS to get that absorption?

That's good to hear that the CL was ineffective for you. It hasn't been doing a lot for me either. I'll give the Enzy a try. I don't think I need 3 bottles a day (yikes!) because my symptoms are nowhere near as severe as yours. (For which I am very thankful!) Hopefully 3-4 mg/day Enzy will provide better results than 20mg of the CL.

Thanks Freddd!