Will You Be Getting the Covid Vaccine?

[ljimbo423]

Color me skeptical , but I don't believe the CDC's position on deaths related to the covid vaccine are particularly reliable.

I thought you might be a little skeptical about the CDC's findings. I think the vaccine is very safe but I respect your view.

 

[Booble]

I think it's fair for all of us to be nervous about it, given our physical history. And yet the chances of something going wrong for any individual is slim.

Will something go wrong for some people? Yes. No doubt.
But we're doing hundreds of millions of doses of vaccines worldwide.
And so far very few blips. (Yes, I'm sorry for those having the blips.)

Meanwhile 2.5 million have died from COVID-19.

 

[ljimbo423]

Meanwhile 2.5 million have died from COVID-19.

I hadn't checked the worldwide number of deaths in quite a while. 2.5 million is absolutely mind boggling!

 

[2Cor.12:19]

Hi @ljimbo423
First Month of COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Monitoring — United States, December 14, 2020–January 13, 2021

During December 14, 2020–January 13, 2021, a total of 13,794,904 COVID-19 vaccine doses were administered in the United States; 8,436,863 (61.2%) doses were administered to women. VAERS received 6,994 reports of COVID-19–associated adverse events during this period. Among all reports, 6,354 (90.8%) were classified as nonserious and 640 (9.2%) as serious, including 113 (1.6%) deaths.​

@Wayne Thank you for sharing this - I read the article and was left feeling even more assured of the vaccine safety. That 1.6% deaths is the percentage of the 6,354 reported adverse effects- most of which were not serious.
Of the 113 deaths reported, most of them were people in long term care facilities- likely very elderly. The overall report reaffirmed the vaccine’s safety.
.
“A total of 113 deaths were reported to VAERS, including 78 (65%) among LTCF residents; available information from death certificates, autopsy reports, medical records, and clinical descriptions from VAERS reports and health care providers did not suggest any causal relationship between COVID-19 vaccination and death. Rare cases of anaphylaxis after receipt of both vaccines were reported (4.5 reported cases per million doses administered). ”

 

[ljimbo423]

“A total of 113 deaths were reported to VAERS, including 78 (65%) among LTCF residents; available information from death certificates, autopsy reports, medical records, and clinical descriptions from VAERS reports and health care providers did not suggest any causal relationship between COVID-19 vaccination and death. Rare cases of anaphylaxis after receipt of both vaccines were reported (4.5 reported cases per million doses administered). ”

Thank you for posting this. I'm concerned that some of us will read just about the deaths and think it was the vaccine, when it wasn't and could make some of us not get the vaccine.

 

[pamojja]

Our county health officer explained how she made the decision after weighing all the risks.

You have a 1-2 chance out of 100 of dying from COVID-19.
(and 5 out of 100 chance of being hospitalized from COVID-19)

and a

1 out of 1,000,000 chance of dying from the vaccine.

To put these numbers in much further perspective, Worldwide untill now - after 1 year already, while the experience with the vaccines is only a tiny part of that and far from definitive - definitely ~1 in 3,000 of total population died from or with covid-19. If also the 1-2 chance out of 100 stays true, then already ~2,850 out 3,000 remained for some unknown reason immune to even caching the virus during the first year. And from the remaining ~150 an other ~142 only got it so mild not requiring hospitalization.

Dying of heart disease or cancer each still carries with it a 2-3 times higher risk each year. If one is able to mitigate the risk from these 2 major killers, for example with extensive life-style changes, then for all practical purposes one is protecting oneself about 5 times more from dying, than any covid vaccine ever could.

And considering the comorbities of heart disease aren't even different from covid - diabetes, blood-pressure, obesity, etc. - even more again.

 

[geraldt52]

My mother is in an assisted living facility, and got her second dose of the vaccine late last week. Three days later she was admitted to the hospital with severe generalized pain in her legs and back and seizures. No hospital doctor ever even asked her whether she had recently been vaccinated.

Does anyone really think that the VAERS stats bear any resemblance to the actual numbers, when doctors are so disinterested in even inquiring, let alone making the reports. What's in it for them anyway? Do you think they're anxious to spend any time making such reports, especially when they are completely overwhelmed...reports that might lead them to being crucified as "anti-vax"? Who is following up and making the appropriate reports on all the vaccinations being given in drive-ups, pharmacies, etc...with no doctor even involved? If few doctors can be bothered to make a VAERS report, then there's little surprise that "very few reported side effects" can be the public mantra regarding the vaccines. And if every death can be dismissed as "no direct connection with the vaccine", well, then it's pretty well a given that the actual safety of the vaccines will remain a mystery. And people will legitimately remain skeptical.

Has anyone had a doctor ever file a report with the FDA regarding a side effect you experienced with a drug? I know damned sure no doctor I ever saw did, and I wouldn't even imagine any of them filing a VAERS report unless the reaction occurred 30 seconds after they withdrew the needle...

 

[ljimbo423]

My mother is in an assisted living facility, and got her second dose of the vaccine late last week. Three days later she was admitted to the hospital with severe generalized pain in her legs and back and seizures.

I'm sorry this happened to your mother. That must have been really scary for both of you!

To say with any certainty it was the vaccine though, I think is a stretch. It might have been or it could have been something else. With lives at stake for many people that don't get the vaccine.

I think it's important to know what side effects the vaccine is causing. We know it can cause anaphylaxis in 4.5 out of every million people but as far as I know, they have all fully recovered and it can cause fever aches and pains etc, usually not for more than 1-3 days.

If it does cause that kind of reaction in some people. I think it's important for everyone to know, so they can decide weather or not they want to get the vaccine based on the facts, not possibilities.

 

[andyguitar]

As @pamojja has pointed out the chances of dying from covid are fairly small. But scince this thread started in November there have many more reports of Long Covid. Vaccines can reduce the chances of getting that.

 

[ljimbo423]

As @pamojja has pointed out the chances of dying from covid are fairly small. But scince this thread started in November there have many more reports of Long Covid. Vaccines can reduce the chances of getting that.

Yes, vaccines can surely help reduce the number of people with Long Covid too.

They list here, the number of deaths worldwide from Covid are 3%. Even if there were 3 times as many people that got Covid and were not reported and the same number of them died as they say, which is 2,524,374. That would still be 1%. That's 1 out of every 100 people!

That 3%, as a percentage of deaths, is the same percentage given to the number of deaths in the United States too. So there some consistency with it.

 

[2Cor.12:19]

I think the bottom line is that THIS has happened and it’s happened in world that has been globally shut down for almost a year. And it has happened in a world that has antibiotics, oxygen therapy, ventilators, and promising treatments- unlike historical pandemics. Not only that, but there seems to be no end in sight, except for the hope of global vaccination. I’m as worried as everyone else with ME about side effects, but I feel this is more than being just about me.

 

[pamojja]

That would still be 1%. That's 1 out of every 100 people!

Sure. Just as sure that 2999 out of 3000 from the world population didn't die of covid last year. That leaves 0.03% of the world population death by covid.

 

[Sushi]

Does anyone really think that the VAERS stats bear any resemblance to the actual numbers, when doctors are so disinterested in even inquiring, let alone making the reports

But the CDC tracking vsafe.cdc.gov is reported directly by the patient. My place of vaccination asked everyone to sign up—I did and they tracked my side-effects daily for a week and then weekly after that. This is the source of the published reports of side-effects.

 

[Wayne]

My mother is in an assisted living facility, and got her second dose of the vaccine late last week. Three days later she was admitted to the hospital with severe generalized pain in her legs and back and seizures. No hospital doctor ever even asked her whether she had recently been vaccinated.

Does anyone really think that the VAERS stats bear any resemblance to the actual numbers, when doctors are so disinterested in even inquiring, let alone making the reports. What's in it for them anyway? Do you think they're anxious to spend any time making such reports, especially when they are completely overwhelmed...reports that might lead them to being crucified as "anti-vax"? Who is following up and making the appropriate reports on all the vaccinations being given in drive-ups, pharmacies, etc...with no doctor even involved? If few doctors can be bothered to make a VAERS report, then there's little surprise that "very few reported side effects" can be the public mantra regarding the vaccines. And if every death can be dismissed as "no direct connection with the vaccine", well, then it's pretty well a given that the actual safety of the vaccines will remain a mystery.

Hi @geraldt52 -- I'm going to nominate your comments for "post of the day" (do we even have a post of the day here on Phoenix Rising)? What you highlight in your comments is what I feel is very much the case: That whatever is being reported regarding adverse reactions and deaths from the covid-19 vaccine pales in comparison to what is NOT being reported. My personal opinion is (for what it's worth) that you can safely multiply what's being reported by 100x, and still not get close to what's not being reported.

Most people have no idea how faulty and inadequate reporting requirements are for just about any area of medicine, with the vacccine arena possibly being one of the worst--for the reasons you mention. What health care professional wants to be branded an "anti-vaxxer" when it's just so much easier to ignore what's going on right in front of you. Plus, there are just too many vested financial interests to have a system much different than what we have now. -- Below is a link to a fairly sobering article which gives insights into how loosely regulated many drugs are, and how adverse reporting requirements are woefully inadequate.

One of America’s most popular drugs — first aimed at schizophrenia — reveals the issues of ‘off-label’ use

 

[ljimbo423]

Sure. Just as sure that 2999 out of 3000 from the world population didn't die of covid last year. That leaves 0.03% of the world population death by covid.

I respect that you have very strong views about the vaccines but I disagree with your numbers.

The lowest numbers I've heard, from several of the leading experts, are 1-1.5% of Coivd infections cause death.

 

[pamojja]

Not only that, but there seems to be no end in sight,

Here we are today:

coronavirus-data-explorer(1).png

That was the finite course of the historical Spanish flu:

PSX_20210222_215744.jpg

Looks to me it could very well be over already with the next hump in March.

 

[pamojja]

I respect that you have very strong views about the vaccines but I disagree with your numbers.

The lowest numbers I've heard, from several of the leading experts, are 1-1.5% of Coivd infections cause death.

I don't have 'strong' views about vaccines at all. I'm vaccinated as anyone else here.

You state 1-1.5% of Covid infections, while I state 0.03% of the world population. So no contratiction between us.

 

[ljimbo423]

You state 1-1.5% of Covid infections, while I state 0.03% of the world population. So no contratiction between us.

They are the same. Just different ways to look at the same thing. Good to see we are in agreement.

 

[Gingergrrl]

After catching up on this thread, I wanted to further explain my decision not to get the vaccine in case it is relevant or helpful to anyone else. My decision is purely based on my own medical history and risk factors as they pertain to me. I am not an anti-vaxxer and this is not political whatsoever.

I have an extremely severe history of (proven) autoimmunity that was progressive and completely disabling and I did three years of treatments/infusions that put me into remission. In addition, I have a severe history of both anaphylaxis and neurotoxic reactions to medications and to additives found in food, meds, etc.

Every individual has different risk factors and no two people are the same. An individual's risk factors to a vaccine cannot be assessed entirely by comparing them to the risk factors for society in general. Most of the advice re: vaccines that comes from the CDC or the government is based on recommendations for society at large. It is not based on the medical recommendations for someone with autoimmunity.

I have been studying these COVID vaccines ad nauseam (as if it were my job) and I really wanted to reach the conclusion that this vaccine could be safe for me, but I cannot reach that conclusion no matter how hard I try.

One research article that was really informative to me is, "Predicting post-vaccination autoimmunity: Who might be at risk?" by Soriano, Nesher, and Shoenfeld. This article is not about the COVID vaccine per se but is about vaccines in general. It comes to the conclusion that the individuals who are most at risk of developing autoimmune disease from a vaccine (or from re-triggering existing autoimmune disease) are people exactly like me with my history.

I am mentioning this b/c for most people the risk of COVID is much greater than the risk of the vaccine but for a small minority like me, the risk of the vaccine is greater.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I have no idea why I had such a bad reaction to the flu and pneumonia vaccine. It came on immediately after leaving the drs office and I had to turn around and go back. It triggered a serious form panic disorder affecting my ability to stand up and I ended calling an ambulance twice. I've been on beta blockers ever since. (21 yrs now) I went to several doctors and no one could explain it

Your description (to me) sounds like you developed POTS from the vaccine which is actually more common than people realize. The fact that it affected your ability to stand and that you are now on a beta blocker 21 years later, sounds like POTS (not panic disorder). Have you ever been diagnosed with POTS?