What is Methyl Trapping ?

[surfbaby]

Good job highlighting your question in bold.

I still haven't heard back to you about the Lysine question (post 58 on this thread). I don't want to keep bugging you about it, but just wondered are you not getting that post, or do you just not have an opinion?

If what you want is to re-access important ones, then you might tag/highlight them in your email, which is the opposite of what I've just outlined, re no email. I have a samll application that's a desktop notebook. This is where I copy info for later reference. I'm using a delightful little $5 Growly.com program, Mac only.

Do you know if this is available as an app that be used on an iPad? I don't know if I can figure out how to get it, but it might help me.

Other than reaching your limit, the thought that first occurs to me is low potassium. I had no idea, for years, that this was the cause to my nearly passing out many times, when out in the world.

I think you might be right about that! I am still trying to find a potassium that agrees with me better, but I will keep trying to take more of the one I have now.

I had a bad experience yesterday that almost put me off of doing FP, and I'm hoping you will talk me down. I tried to cut an 800mcg Solgar MF to save money, and just handling it made me so sick. All the skin on my upper body started burning like fire, and I felt hot, disoriented, etc. I have no problems cutting the 400mcg and I can actually take 1.25 of those at a time. The 800mcg must just be more concentrated, because It was just too strong for me to even get on my skin. I guess it just scared me because I know that many of you do alternative transdermal methods, injections etc. If I can't even touch an 800mcg MF, how am I going to work my way up! I can't afford to stay on the 400 size tablets forever.

I guess I shouldn't worry about that now because lots of things can change as time goes by. I just wonder if I could still get well even if I can't get up to massive doses. This process is a bit overwhelming, but I don't want to give up now!

It also makes me wonder how people even stop this protocol. I imagine your body would go through some crazy withdrawals or reactions. I think I would have a major crash if I stopped suddenly. Is there a process for this if someone just can't handle it and wants to stop? I'm not saying that's me, so don't give up on me yet! Some aspects of this are just a bit scary, including the financial aspect, and there's so much to figure out in the beginning.

 

[ahmo]

I still haven't heard back to you about the Lysine question (post 58 on this thread). I don't want to keep bugging you about it, but just wondered are you not getting that post, or do you just not have an opinion?

In my haste I'd thought you were asking Caledonia, so I didn't attend to it. I took lysine for some while after starting FP. That's all I can tell you.

Do you know if this is available as an app that be used on an iPad? I don't know if I can figure out how to get it, but it might help me.

You're in luck. Here's the developer's home, and the link takes you to Apple store to purchase.

I tried to cut an 800mcg Solgar MF to save money, and just handling it made me so sick. All the skin on my upper body started burning like fire, and I felt hot, disoriented, etc. I have no problems cutting the 400mcg and I can actually take 1.25 of those at a time. The 800mcg must just be more concentrated, because It was just too strong for me to even get on my skin.

wow!! If your sensitivity is all about your skin, then maybe gloves would work to split the 800 tabs. Same brand as the 400mcg? There are other brands, with different fillers, including capsules. But you think it's the folate?? For example, Life Extension makes 1mg and 5mg capsules. Splitting a 1mg cap wouldn't be far off from dividing an 800mcg tablet.

It also makes me wonder how people even stop this protocol. I imagine your body would go through some crazy withdrawals or reactions. I think I would have a major crash if I stopped suddenly. Is there a process for this if someone just can't handle it and wants to stop? I'm not saying that's me, so don't give up on me yet! Some aspects of this are just a bit scary, including the financial aspect, and there's so much to figure out in the beginning.

There are people here who've gone off the protocol. I don't know if anyone has done so in an organized way. I'd look at the blogs I linked for your earlier. Or, start a thread asking that in the title: How to safely quit FP, or Active B12/folate.

My sense is that the real difficulty would be w/ the folate, not the B12. Niacin dampens folate effects. I can't advise you further. Here's something by MTHFR/folate expert Ben Lynch re folate side effects. There's often a wealth of info in the comments section, so save it to look through at your leisure.

Do you have known histamine or mast cell issues, eg. skin sensitivity? Methylation can push histamine responses initially. A good piece on mast cells, in case it's useful.
https://mastcellblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/canary/

 

[surfbaby]

In my haste I'd thought you were asking Caledonia, so I didn't attend to it. I took lysine for some while after starting FP. That's all I can tell you.

So you never noticed whether it affected the protocol while you were taking it, or whether the protocol worked better after you stopped it? Have you ever heard anything about amino acids in general interfering with FP? I think I will continue to take it as long as I'm still eating dark chocolate regularly because of the high arginine in it, which can create an imbalance with lysine. I would think if lysine is necessary to make carnitine (per Freddd lysine + methionine = carnitine) you wouldn't want to be deficient in it, but I don't understand how all these processes work.

If your sensitivity is all about your skin, then maybe gloves would work to split the 800 tabs. Same brand as the 400mcg? There are other brands, with different fillers, including capsules. But you think it's the folate?? For example, Life Extension makes 1mg and 5mg capsules. Splitting a 1mg cap wouldn't be far off from dividing an 800mcg tablet.

The skin thing is actually pretty new. I've only had it for about 5 years and I think it's tied into things that happened to me in the past 10 years: botched medical treatments that worsened my sensitivities, the surgeries, antivirals/steroids I had to take to heal my eye, arsenic toxicity, menopause, etc. A lot of times things I touch will make me have symptoms, but I won't feel as bad when I eat them. Makes things very complicated. It has actually improved over the past couple years.

I had an exposure to something in my house in 2011 that really put my symptoms over the edge, and never quite figured it out. It was an expensive T3 curling iron that I ordered, and I really should've known better because it had ionization and tourmaline in it, and I had already started developing a sensitivity to some gemstones and metals. Anyway I got so sick shortly after the first time I used it, but I didn't realize at first that it was the hair curler that caused it. To make the situation even stranger, it seemed to "spread". For example every surface the curler touched started to bother me. And if I touched it and then touched other things, those other things started to bother me too. Only washing my hands in between touching those things seemed to help stop it from spreading. That led to a huge increase in my sensitivities to electrical things too. It disrupted my life in a way I have never known. I had someone return it for me, but it just seemed like whatever was in it that bothered me so much had already invaded my house. I have never experienced anything like that before in my life. Someone suggested that perhaps the metal was irradiated. Anyway that was the last straw that really made me go downhill for several years, but the situation is slowly improving. Have you ever heard of anything like this?

I do think the 800 tabs are just too strong for me to handle right now, but I'm hoping that as my dosage gets up I can start introducing it. I have plenty of disposable gloves, but they don't always help. Usually I can adapt to things though. It just scared me because it was so unexpected since the 400 tabs with the same fillers don't bother me at all. Did you find Life Extension works for you as well as Solgar? Think it might be pricier though.

By the way I used your tip of taking MB12 to counteract the reaction to the folate 800 tabs, and it worked! Still trying to figure out if it was just a one-off, but I think taking an extra 1/4 MB12 tab per day is helping. More than that is too strong, so thanks to you, I'm learning.

There are people here who've gone off the protocol. I don't know if anyone has done so in an organized way. I'd look at the blogs I linked for your earlier. Or, start a thread asking that in the title: How to safely quit FP, or Active B12/folate.

Can you refresh me about where to find the blogs you linked me to earlier? I am drawing a complete blank on that. Being on the iPad so much is really affecting my brain too, but I just keep hoping I will adapt. Because of FP, I am so much busier and doing so many new things, I am exhausted, and my eyes and brain just haven't figured out how to keep up yet. Think I need to slow things down, but I still have so much to figure out.

Do you have known histamine or mast cell issues, eg. skin sensitivity? Methylation can push histamine responses initially. A good piece on mast cells, in case it's useful.
https://mastcellblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/canary/

Not sure about about mast cell issues, but based on previous history of blood blisters in my mouth I'm pretty sure I do. Will check out your link. Do you have any links to histamine responses?

Thanks also for your link to the app and MTHFR/Ben Lynch. I do think I want to get the DNA testing done soon. I went to the 23andMe website per Caledonia and I guess they have redone their website to the "new" 23andMe as of 10/21/15. Looks like the revision was a step up and not a step back (?), but I have to rest my eyes before I can read further. Unfortunately there is no phone number to call for questions that I could find, only a place to submit email questions. I would prefer to call in my order. Do you or @caledonia have any records with their phone number, and should I just get the basic kit for 199? Will this kit give me all the info I need on genetic mutations, variations, SNPs, etc., or is there something additional I need to add on? Also how do you get help interpreting the results?

You can get a 10% discount for ordering more than one, and a friend said he might help me pay for mine, but I wonder if they will ship the kits to 2 different addresses, and whether we can each have our own login. Maybe that's too complicated a way of doing it, and we should just order separately.

 

[ahmo]

So you never noticed whether it affected the protocol while you were taking it, or whether the protocol worked better after you stopped it? Have you ever heard anything about amino acids in general interfering with FP?

I was taking a number of aminos, which I no longer need. No interference. Protocol, for me, is pretty much stand-alone, has not been subject to influence from other factors. With the exception of Lithium, which is said to enhance B12 absorption. but it hasn't changed the amount of B12 I need, nor effectiveness.

Someone suggested that perhaps the metal was irradiated. Anyway that was the last straw that really made me go downhill for several years, but the situation is slowly improving. Have you ever heard of anything like this?

Wow. awful. irradiated??? who knows.

Did you find Life Extension works for you as well as Solgar? Think it might be pricier though.

I've settled on Life Extension. I've used their 5mg, 1mg, capssules, and 1mg tablets. I don't recall it being more expensive.

Can you refresh me about where to find the blogs you linked me to earlier? I

From page 2 of this thread:

The blogs I recommended: To find a member, go to the tab at top of page labelled Members. Then you can type a name into search box. But here are the blogs I mentioned last night. sregan bsw Caledonia. It turns out stridor's 2 blog entries are old, mostly referring to testosterone. But he's written not long ago about his methylation experiences,"mitochondria, mercury, methylation, mycoplasma". If you go to his profile page, and click on Postings, you'll see some other categories/titles. It's from Brad stridor that I learned about taking folate sublingually.

I would prefer to call in my order. Do you or @caledonia have any records with their phone number, and should I just get the basic kit for 199? Will this kit give me all the info I need on genetic mutations, variations, SNPs, etc., or is there something additional I need to add on? Also how do you get help interpreting the results?

23andme is $99 US. It's the most basic, seems like most people get what they need from this. Yasko and Sterling Hill at mthfr.net might offer more comprehensive, I'm not sure if their testing is different. Yasko has a couple more snps. Most fo

 

[caledonia]

Thanks also for your link to the app and MTHFR/Ben Lynch. I do think I want to get the DNA testing done soon. I went to the 23andMe website per Caledonia and I guess they have redone their website to the "new" 23andMe as of 10/21/15. Looks like the revision was a step up and not a step back (?), but I have to rest my eyes before I can read further. Unfortunately there is no phone number to call for questions that I could find, only a place to submit email questions. I would prefer to call in my order. Do you or @caledonia have any records with their phone number, and should I just get the basic kit for 199? Will this kit give me all the info I need on genetic mutations, variations, SNPs, etc., or is there something additional I need to add on? Also how do you get help interpreting the results?

You can get a 10% discount for ordering more than one, and a friend said he might help me pay for mine, but I wonder if they will ship the kits to 2 different addresses, and whether we can each have our own login. Maybe that's too complicated a way of doing it, and we should just order separately.

I don't see a phone # on the site. It looks like all communication is web-based.

The basic kit should cover most everything. Once you get your results, download the raw data and run it through the Genetic Genie methylation panel and detox panel and/or Sterling's app.

I have a SNPs Interpretation Guide in my signature link, which mainly covers the Genetic Genie SNPs (methylation and detox). Heartfixer is also a good resource for methylation cycle SNPs.

Sterling just put out a guide for her SNPs, called the SNPbit Compendium.
https://lifezonewellness.selz.com/item/55f782a0b79872079c870735?mode=edit
https://lifezonewellness.selz.com/item/55f782a0b79872079c870735?mode=edit
She covers a lot of other areas besides methylation. There are some things which are useful such as gluten, histamine, GAD (anxiety) etc., but it is a lot more info to process. I haven't done to much with it up to this point, because it wasn't clear in most cases what could be done if you had those SNPs, but maybe the Compendium would help with that.

So my suggestion would be to start with Genetic Genie, then once you feel you have a handle on that, take a look at Sterling's info.

 

[surfbaby]

I was taking a number of aminos, which I no longer need. No interference. Protocol, for me, is pretty much stand-alone, has not been subject to influence from other factors. With the exception of Lithium, which is said to enhance B12 absorption. but it hasn't changed the amount of B12 I need, nor effectiveness.

You mentioned before that too much folinic acid from vegetables did cause you to have to take more folate, which you were able to reduce after decreasing vegetables. Did you ever continue to take anything with folic acid in the early stages of your protocol? I have one product left that has folic acid that I am still working on trying to replace, and hopefully will have found a replacement in the next week, but meanwhile I take it late at night before I go to bed far at least 6 hours away from any of my FP supplements. I do feel like I am continuing to make progress with FP, but I bet it will make a difference when I get rid of this product. I wonder how badly this might be affecting me? What do you think?

23andme is $99 US. It's the most basic, seems like most people get what they need from this. Yasko and Sterling Hill at mthfr.net might offer more comprehensive, I'm not sure if their testing is different. Yasko has a couple more snps. Most fo

Your message got cut off, so just wondering if anything important got left out. @caledonia did tell me their price went up to $199, and I found that to be the case when I went to their "new" website. Maybe it was due to the FDA changes they had to comply with. As I am writing you I see a new post came through from Caledonia with related info.

Sorry I got confused about the blog thing. My brain is just so fuzzy right now, I still can't remember what any of it is about at the moment. I think I need to find a way to deal with the increased stress of adding FP into my life! There's just so much more to do than I am used to. I kept thinking once I got into the swing of FP it might calm down a bit. I think I just need to slow down and pace myself, and deal with the stress better. I usually meditate at least once a day, but often forget lately because of all the new activity, which is probably the worst thing I could do. Since having CFS, it seems every time I add something in, something else has to be eliminated. Do you ever experience that? Hopefully FP will allow me to expand the sum total of what I can do.

 

[surfbaby]

I don't see a phone # on the site. It looks like all communication is web-based.

The basic kit should cover most everything. Once you get your results, download the raw data and run it through the Genetic Genie methylation panel and detox panel and/or Sterling's app.

I have a SNPs Interpretation Guide in my signature link, which mainly covers the Genetic Genie SNPs (methylation and detox). Heartfixer is also a good resource for methylation cycle SNPs.

Sterling just put out a guide for her SNPs, called the SNPbit Compendium.
https://lifezonewellness.selz.com/item/55f782a0b79872079c870735?mode=edit
She covers a lot of other areas besides methylation. There are some things which are useful such as gluten, histamine, GAD (anxiety) etc., but it is a lot more info to process. I haven't done to much with it up to this point, because it wasn't clear in most cases what could be done if you had those SNPs, but maybe the Compendium would help with that.

So my suggestion would be to start with Genetic Genie, then once you feel you have a handle on that, take a look at Sterling's info.

Thanks so much for this info! In the post above yours (#64), ahmo mentioned: "Yasko and Sterling Hill at mthfr.net might offer more comprehensive, I'm not sure if their testing is different. Yasko has a couple more snps." Does that mean I have to order additional SNPs, or does the $199 test from 23andMe cover all of that? Are the Genova tests something else?

BTW, I checked your 4R Gut Rebuilding Program. I have already done all the Remove steps over the years. I have basically been on a slightly modified anti-candida diet since the late 80s, seems to work best for me. I was diagnosed with some type of intestinal dysbiosis in the 90s, but I thought that was resolved. After I get the DNA testing, I will work on finding a way to fund the gut testing. Hope you don't mind if I have questions on that when the time comes. I do probiotics and prebiotics already, but that might need to be modified depending on test results. I used to take l-glutamine daily, but after stopping it for some reason several years ago, now I can't seem to tolerate it anymore. I tried to re-introduce it to help with probable leaky gut. I thought l-glutamine was not allowed in FP?

My BM's were pretty normal for many months (The chelation actually seemed to help my gut, and my weight increased to normal. I know you said chelation can make it worse, but maybe it reduced some of the arsenic which can cause gut problems too.) Then I stopped chelation because of how much it was affecting my brain, and when I tried acetyl glutathione for 3 weeks (right before switching to FP 6 weeks ago), I started having the runs and have had them since then until about 2 weeks ago. It seems like my body is trying to normalize my BM's, but I'm not completely there yet. It's almost like it's still flared up like my skin has flared up intermittently since starting FP. I think I probably need a higher level of MF, but I'm trying to go about increasing it slowly, so I can watch out for donut hole, etc. and keep everything in balance. Any thoughts on this?

 

[ahmo]

Did you ever continue to take anything with folic acid in the early stages of your protocol? ...I wonder how badly this might be affecting me? What do you think?I

I haven't taken folic acid from long before starting FP. It's possible. I can't recall whether folic acid actually blocks folate. You can check here, from Ben Lynch. @caledonia might be able to answer this better.
http://mthfr.net/folic-acid-awareness-week-2014-want-awareness-here-you-go/2014/01/08/

More articles here: http://mthfr.net/?s=folic+acid

I usually meditate at least once a day, but often forget lately because of all the new activity, which is probably the worst thing I could do. Since having CFS, it seems every time I add something in, something else has to be eliminated. Do you ever experience that? Hopefully FP will allow me to expand the sum total of what I can do.

I spent countless hours researching FP before I started. I also signed up and enjoyed nummerous online learning courses last year, over 2 months. However, I do not now have the energy, nor desire, to participate in any more courses. Too brain intensive. Same with brain games, way too exhausting. And I've found that after each round of research, when I'm no longer under pressure to find solutions, my time online involvement decreases. Otherwise, I don't add things in. I do what I can each day, which might be nothing more than my morning online reading, and then lying on the bed reading a novel.

 

[caledonia]

Thanks so much for this info! In the post above yours (#64), ahmo mentioned: "Yasko and Sterling Hill at mthfr.net might offer more comprehensive, I'm not sure if their testing is different. Yasko has a couple more snps." Does that mean I have to order additional SNPs, or does the $199 test from 23andMe cover all of that? Are the Genova tests something else?

The $199 23andme test should be sufficient. Yasko's methylation panel has a few more SNPs, but 23andme covers most of the same SNPs. Sterling doesn't have a test - her program interprets the 23andme test.

BTW, I checked your 4R Gut Rebuilding Program. I have already done all the Remove steps over the years. I have basically been on a slightly modified anti-candida diet since the late 80s, seems to work best for me. I was diagnosed with some type of intestinal dysbiosis in the 90s, but I thought that was resolved. After I get the DNA testing, I will work on finding a way to fund the gut testing. Hope you don't mind if I have questions on that when the time comes. I do probiotics and prebiotics already, but that might need to be modified depending on test results. I used to take l-glutamine daily, but after stopping it for some reason several years ago, now I can't seem to tolerate it anymore. I tried to re-introduce it to help with probable leaky gut. I thought l-glutamine was not allowed in FP?

You'll likely have to kill off the bad gut bugs with anti-fungal meds or herbs to get anywhere. Skipping this step is the mistake most people make. If you don't kill off the bad bugs, you can't resolve the leaky gut because they cause the leaky gut.

I've heard various things about l-glutamine - Yasko thinks it might convert to glutamate and cause anxiety. Freddd doesn't like it because it's a glutathione precursor, and glutathione can cause issues. Cutler likes it because it's better tolerated than glutathione.

I would just try it and see if you tolerate it or not. That's the last step in the 4R program, so introducing it too early could be the issue.

My BM's were pretty normal for many months (The chelation actually seemed to help my gut, and my weight increased to normal. I know you said chelation can make it worse, but maybe it reduced some of the arsenic which can cause gut problems too.) Then I stopped chelation because of how much it was affecting my brain, and when I tried acetyl glutathione for 3 weeks (right before switching to FP 6 weeks ago), I started having the runs and have had them since then until about 2 weeks ago. It seems like my body is trying to normalize my BM's, but I'm not completely there yet. It's almost like it's still flared up like my skin has flared up intermittently since starting FP. I think I probably need a higher level of MF, but I'm trying to go about increasing it slowly, so I can watch out for donut hole, etc. and keep everything in balance. Any thoughts on this?

I did a google search. Some people report issues with glutathione like yours. It might possibly be the sulfur content. It's unclear if it's making candida worse or not. You could try an herbal anti-fungal like caprylic acid, cats claw, grapefruit seed extract, oregano, etc. and see if it helps.

 

[caledonia]

I haven't taken folic acid from long before starting FP. It's possible. I can't recall whether folic acid actually blocks folate. You can check here, from Ben Lynch. @caledonia might be able to answer this better.
http://mthfr.net/folic-acid-awareness-week-2014-want-awareness-here-you-go/2014/01/08/

More articles here: http://mthfr.net/?s=folic acid

http://mthfr.net/?s=folic+acid

I think it's Freddd who says this.

I would say, it depends on your MTHFR SNPs. If you're A1298C +/- you can worry the least. If you're A1298C +/+ or C677T +/- you could be moderately affected. If you're hetero A1298C / C677T or C677T +/+, I would be much more vigilant about avoiding folic acid.

FYI, even if you were supplementing with folic acid, it should be completely out of your system within 3 months.

 

[Aerose91]

I think it's Freddd who says this.

I would say, it depends on your MTHFR SNPs. If you're A1298C +/- you can worry the least. If you're A1298C +/+ or C677T +/- you could be moderately affected. If you're hetero A1298C / C677T or C677T +/+, I would be much more vigilant about avoiding folic acid.

FYI, even if you were supplementing with folic acid, it should be completely out of your system within 3 months.

When you guys talk about avoiding folic acid above ^^ , does that include folinic acid or just the fortified folic?

 

[garyfritz]

I missed your clarification, @caledonia. Thanks -- I am +/+ A1298C but -/- C677T so hopefully I don't have to panic about folic acid.

FYI, even if you were supplementing with folic acid, it should be completely out of your system within 3 months.

However remember that in 80+ countries, you are still supplementing with folic acid if you eat fortified grain products.

 

[caledonia]

When you guys talk about avoiding folic acid above ^^ , does that include folinic acid or just the fortified folic?

Folic acid.

Folinic is a separate issue, and it's unclear why people may or may not tolerate that. I think there was an attempt on here to see if it correlated with MTHFS, but the results were inconclusive. So basically, for folinic, it's trial and error.

 

[caledonia]

I missed your clarification, @caledonia. Thanks -- I am +/+ A1298C but -/- C677T so hopefully I don't have to panic about folic acid.
However remember that in 80+ countries, you are still supplementing with folic acid if you eat fortified grain products.

Right, you would possibly want to be vigilant about not consuming foods fortified with folic acid. Luckily they're labeled well.

 

[Aerose91]

Folic acid.

Folinic is a separate issue, and it's unclear why people may or may not tolerate that. I think there was an attempt on here to see if it correlated with MTHFS, but the results were inconclusive. So basically, for folinic, it's trial and error.

Got it, thanks. The problem people have with vegetables is because of folinic, right?

 

[caledonia]

Got it, thanks. The problem people have with vegetables is because of folinic, right?

Yes

 

[surfbaby]

I think it's Freddd who says this.

I would say, it depends on your MTHFR SNPs. If you're A1298C +/- you can worry the least. If you're A1298C +/+ or C677T +/- you could be moderately affected. If you're hetero A1298C / C677T or C677T +/+, I would be much more vigilant about avoiding folic acid.

FYI, even if you were supplementing with folic acid, it should be completely out of your system within 3 months.

@caledonia @ahmo I have not posted to the forum for a couple of months mostly because of eye problems. My brain got a bit overloaded as well. Also waiting for 23andMe results below. However I have continuously been on FP and have very slowly titrated up to total daily of 2200mcg MF and 5250mcg MB both split into 3 doses, 1/16 to under 1/8 tablet of SN Adeno 1x/day (still very hard to increase that), and 1/2 of 855mg LCF 1-2x/day.

Some things like gut issues, overall stamina/energy are much improved most of the time, but I still have ups and downs with everything. I can't always figure out if it's something in FP, or possibly due to big hormone fluctuations usually right before middle and end of the month, esp when I have an overly jittery day or feel overly neurologic symptoms/brain fog. It's hard to say if I'm much better from FP, because some things on the protocol are difficult, and I was so much worse before I started due to the 8 lower-dose EDTA chelation IVs I wish I hadn't done last year for arsenic from brown rice. I would call it a mixed bag leaning towards better, and still very hopeful and promising.

I have many questions about genetic genie results below, but I did read your SNP's Interpretation Guide, and only today realized there was also a detox profile, so need to study that more. As mentioned before, the eye thing really holds me back and I miss things at times. When I first started FP, my eyes, brain, and nervous system were improving, but now I think I have more times when I feel overreactive, though I've been that way somewhat for years, and could be menopausal hormone surges.T Also my eye doctor said the way my eyes perceive things since Sept. 2014 surgery and improvement of my damaged eye possibly since taking MB could be part of the brain issue (the damaged eye starting to see more but not focusing with good eye could be confusing my brain). Still trying to figure it out.

Anyway for now my primary questions are about possibly doing a trial change from MB sublinguals to Hydroxy injections based on DNA results listed below. I have suspected over the years a possible issue with MB. When I had a severe B-12 deficiency 10 years ago, I tolerated Hydroxy injections much better than MB injections. However when I started adding in sublinguals shortly after the injections, I tolerated MB sublinguals, but could not tolerate Hydroxy sublinguals. I wasn't dissolving the MB slowly enough before, so I'm probably getting a lot more now than I was then. The Hydroxy injections made me feel great and increased my energy, but I had so much trouble with the MB injections I eventually had to stop them. With these recent bouts of jitteriness that could be caused by hormones etc. but could also be due to increased doses of MB, I'm starting to wonder, although I did titrate very slowly. Sudden big stresses make my brain just go out the window as well, although that's not new, and the past few months have been extra stressful, but it's the first time in a few years that my speech has gotten briefly affected at extremely stressful times.

I wanted to run this by you based on DNA results before getting Hydroxy injectable compounded from College Pharmacy (unless you recommend a different pharmacy). I wanted to go the injectable route because of previous bad reaction to hydroxy sublinguals, unless you know of a sublingual you think I should try first. All the ones I saw online contained sugars and other ingred I don't tolerate well at all.

Questions: (if you're not sure about any of these, please refer me to someone who might know!)
1. How do I translate my current MB sublingual dose into Hydroxy injection dose. I know this wouldn't be exact, but I'm thinking maybe 20% of my MB sublingual dose if it was MB injectable, but there's probably an additional calculation in changing from MB to Hydroxy. Also I don't imagine I could do shots 3x a day, so could I do it once daily, or would it have to be at least 2x? Hydroxy supposedly stays in the body a lot longer than MB per pharmacy and takes longer to break down into MB and Adeno, so I would think once a day would be enough. I think ahmo said she does injections 2x a day, but she does MB. I know that Fredd is very much against taking anything besides MB. What are your feelings on it?

2. Also does the concentration of the injectable matter? Obviously you would adjust the cc/ml based on the concentration. I could do that as long as I knew how many mcg's to take. College Pharmacy makes several concentrations depending on if it's preservative-free or not. The preservative-free is way out of my price range, but I can afford the ones that they compound with a small amount of benzyl alcohol, which I assume is preferable to the commercial ones available with paraben. The standard concentration of 1000mcg/ml (1mg/ml) seems too dilute for my purposes, I would have to inject quite a bit, and it would not be cost-effective. The next step up would be 10mg/ml which seems like a good place to start. With that concentration, I could measure as little 50mcg on my syringe. 20mg/ml and 30mg/ml are also available.

3. How do I schedule taking my Solgar MF with the injections? If I'm only doing injections 1-2x a day, would I only take the MF at the same time or would I continue with 3x a day, and how would I modify the dose? I just wouldn't want to do anything drastic that would make me crash. I don't think I could afford doing injections of MF too and the tablets agree with me just fine.

4. According to Amy Yasko's DNA chart, I should be taking Hydroxy + Adeno. I'm confused about why I would need the extra Adeno if Hydroxy breaks down into MB and Adeno.

5. The DNA results really seem to fit the story of my life, except for possibly CYP1B1. I think I've always been more low estrogen. Some forum members think the DNA results don't mean much, but I like to think of it as some kind of a very helpful guideline. What are your feelings about it?

Thank you so much for your help! I have missed being on the forum. My DNA results are below. All were heterozygous, except for one homozygous in the detox profile:


COMT V158M rs4680 AG +/-
COMT H62H rs4633 CT +/-
VDR Bsm rs1544410 CT +/-
VDR Taq rs731236 AG +/-
MAO-A R297R rs6323 GT +/-
MTR A2756G rs1805087 AG +/-
MTRR A664A rs1802059 AG +/-
BHMT-02 rs567754 CT +/-
BHMT-08 rs651852 CT +/-

CYP1A2 164A>C rs762551 AC +/-
CYP1B1 R48G rs10012 CG +/-
CYP2D6 S486T rs1135840 GG +/+
CYP2D6 2850C>T rs16947 AG +/-
GSTP1 I105V rs1695 AG +/-
SOD2 A16V rs4880 AG +/-
NAT2 R197Q rs1799930 AG +/-
GSTT1 just says Present in Green
(Not able to say if GSTM1 is Present/Absent on 23andMe.)

There are 6 on the Methyl Profile that are not available on 23andMe. Let me know if you need to know what they are.

 

[ahmo]

Hi @surfbaby I don't know anything about injecting B12. @Freddd, @whodathunkit @garyfritz all use injectable B12, not sure about answers re Hydroxy. good to see you back.

 

[garyfritz]

No, not me. I tried injected B12 for a little while in 2014, but I've been using only B12oils for about a year and a half now.

 

[whodathunkit]

@surfbaby, I don't use hydroxy, I inject methyl. My advice is not go too much on snps when choosing your supps, but rather try stuff and see what works for you.

Yasko's recs based on DNA don't have a very good rep with a lot of smart people around here whose brains I really respect. She seems to churn out a lot of recs based on not much evidence, either scientific or heavily documented anecdotal.

FWIW, my take on scientists and healers who gain some celebrity with really good, sound, cutting edge advice and theories early on often resort to churning out questionable advice and theories later on, possibly just to try and stay on the cutting edge and maintain "preeminence" and celebrity in their field. That may or may not be the case with Yasko, but it's a definite phenomenon and therefore worth considering in her case. The urge to stay ahead of the pack can be very potent in any career.

At any rate, since she can't have any idea all snps a person has, or how those snps are going to interact with one another, it's probably not good to base a protocol based on DNA recs without trying all avenues. Try cautiously, if you're leery of bad effect, but by all means try everything before you make a decision.

I love injectable mB12 and plan never to be without for the rest of my life. Worth noting is I have multiple MTRR mutations which are supposed to affect my B12. But I found this out after I already fell in love with the injectable mB12. Analysis of my DNA has served mostly as confirmation about things I've already observed about my body.

I think snps are probably most useful as a guide of where to start your course of healing, and to keep you pointed in the right directions, but not necessarily as a guide to what forms of the supplements you choose to take. For example, I tried injectable mB12 simply because I wasn't getting the results I wanted from sublingual mB12, and the methyl form is supposed to pack the biggest punch. If I didn't like methyl I would have then tried hydroxy. I never had to try hydroxy because methyl is exactly what I need, but that's how it would have gone if mB12 hadn't worked for me. That's basically how I've chosen every form of supplement I use. I don't worry about what the literature says, it's all about what my body says. And we don't really know what our body says about a thing until we try the thing out.

So if you want to try hydroxy, do it. But if it doesn't give you the results you want or think you should have, try methyl. Don't get too hung up on your snps at any point.

Just my $0.02. Good luck!

Edited to add: the dosing schedule depends upon the person. I used to do best taking a big injection in the morning and sometimes a small one later in the day, and then dividing my folate dose into small multiple doses throughout the day. Now I just take a small injection and a small amount of folate in the morning. That lasts me all day.

When I needed big injections I went with the 12.5mg/ml formulation of mB12. I would inject about half a mg of that. Now I get the 1mg/ml formulation and do about 1/3 - 1/2 mg per day of that. Formulation doesn't really matter as far as how much b12 you can take...it's possible although not desirable to inject 12 full mg of B12 from a 1mg/ml formulation. But that would take a loooong time to draw and it would sting going in. You'd have to divide it up into multiple injections.

But if you get the 12.5mg/ml formulation if you need a larger dose, you can draw a much smaller amount into a small insulin syringe with a very, very thin needle, but still get your bigger dose. These days I can get by with an insulin syringe even with the 1mg/ml formulation, because I don't need more than 1ml per day.

I inject subcutaneously into my abdominal area. Most of the time I don't feel a thing. The needle is very thin and the area is not sensitive. The needle isn't going into your muscle, which is what usually hurts the most when getting a shot. My daily B12 injections are almost like watching someone else get injected. Literally.