What is Methyl Trapping ?

[ahmo]

You said after decreasing your MF from 3/day to 1/day, in just one day it reduced the itching of lesions on your scalp. In your 2nd post, you said on the second day with lower MF your rash disappeared. Usually Fred says to increase MF for skin stuff, but it seemed to be the opposite in your case. Maybe that's the difference between paradoxical folate deficiency and just taking too much? You also mentioned having to go up and down on your MB12 dose too before finding the right one. I have a lot of skin and hair loss issues like you, and one of your other posts about blood blisters in your mouth was the first time I ever heard of anyone else having them!

hey surfbaby, no surfer or even ocean avi??

OK, I'm having trouble focusing my brain these days. I'm just going w/ the one paragraph that jumped out, that I think I can respond to. I'd have to do more searching to be able to respond about distinctions in the folate deficiencies. When I took, at separate times, before getting enough understanding, I was using folate w/o B12. That's when I experienced the head rashes. I recall that I had the same experience w/ B12 on it's own, but would have to go through too many notes to verify if this is true.

When I've been on both B12 and folate, my most immediate folate deficiency is hair loss, followed by various skin eruptions. The blood blisters was the most glaring symptoms, which finally put me onto the path of asking Fred, and then following his advice to increase folate 100-200mcg/day. Finally, I was on the right path.

Here's a thread that might be a better place for asking your questions. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/thirst-for-mfolate-those-that-have-ramped-up.34764/

Here's another current one, problem-solving folate issues:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...epresion-nose-ear-pressure.41059/#post-661445

Blood blisters can be a mast cell symptom, I discovered. I have a number of mast cell responses, pretty benign compared to many people. Here are a few references I found at the time.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2500254/
http://www.uptodate.com/contents/ep...ous-pemphigoid-and-mucous-membrane-pemphigoid
http://www.uptodate.com/contents/ep...ous-pemphigoid-and-mucous-membrane-pemphigoid

http://www.bioportfolio.com/resourc...ells-Is-Critical-For-The-Autoimmune-Skin.html
Summary of “The C5a Receptor on Mast Cells Is Critical for the Autoimmune Skin-blistering Disease Bullous Pemphigoid.”

 

[surfbaby]

hey surfbaby, no surfer or even ocean avi??

OK, I'm having trouble focusing my brain these days. I'm just going w/ the one paragraph that jumped out, that I think I can respond to. I'd have to do more searching to be able to respond about distinctions in the folate deficiencies. When I took, at separate times, before getting enough understanding, I was using folate w/o B12. That's when I experienced the head rashes. I recall that I had the same experience w/ B12 on it's own, but would have to go through too many notes to verify if this is true.

When I've been on both B12 and folate, my most immediate folate deficiency is hair loss, followed by various skin eruptions. The blood blisters was the most glaring symptoms, which finally put me onto the path of asking Fred, and then following his advice to increase folate 100-200mcg/day. Finally, I was on the right path.

@ahmo I actually did want to use a picture of my daughter surfing, or something related to the ocean, but she talked me out of it by saying scenic shots don't make very good avis. "surfbaby" actually comes from a band called Surfbabyz that I was the lead singer in many years ago. I started using it online when I first learned how to "surf" the internet. Also both my kids surf, and my daughter has won many semi-pro contests, even a national championship years ago. She's been to Australia several times. I decided to go with something more spiritual, but it didn't come out properly, as some parts got cut off. Can you change your avi if you don't like the one you have? Got some great band pictures, but they look pretty dated. I'm going to check out the links you sent me, and/or approach my daughter again for a photo.

Thanks for all the links! Can you send the last one again, because I couldn't open it? The mast cell thing is a little scary but luckily, like you, mine are fairly benign. Primarily just blood blisters in my mouth and on my tongue. They started a couple of years ago, and I haven't had them in a couple months which is pretty good. For me, certain foods trigger them. I've also noticed much less hair on the floor lately! I will start checking out those other threads, but I hope you don't mind if I still contact you for now. I have not had much contact with people over the past few years, so putting myself out there where multiple people might be writing me back, would be a little overwhelming for me at first, and harder for my eyes to read additional posts regularly. Hoping the MB12 continues to improve the eye situation, which will enable me to venture out there more.

Great news! I am already feeling better. In future I might try increasing just one thing at a time, which might better help me figure out which one is bothering me. I actually did figure out something though! Remember the ongoing discussion we've had about taking MF 30-60 minutes before MB12, or at the same time? You said Fred has always taken his at the same time, so you were going to change it in your Guide, but Fred's post to Branston on Page 1 of this thread (the 6th post down) indicates he changed it to MF 30-60 min before MB at some point when he was fine-tuning his protocol. However in the 8th post down, when Branston expressed concern about not taking them together, Fred replied that it was ok to do it that way as well. (copies of both Freddd posts after next paragraph).

After finding that yesterday, I realized that the last time I felt good on FP was when I was taking MF 30-60 min prior to MB after reading your Guide. (I switched to taking them at the same time after what you told me.) Maybe this post is where you got it from for your Guide. Anyway I think my body likes it better when I take MF 30-60 min before. Maybe my stomach takes a while to process the MF, whereas the MB starts entering the body immediately, so some MB might be operating with no MF. Also you can tell the difference of how each one affects you when taking them separately. Hopefully Fred didn't change his mind again later, because I'm doing it that way for now, unless you think otherwise. I'm noticing sometimes this forum can be like the child's game "telephone" because when the wording is not clear, one person interprets it differently than another, and by the time it goes down the chain, the story is changed a bit. Also contradictory things get posted at different times, so you don't know the order of when things get revised. Not to complain, I am grateful for all of this information!

Fred's 1st reply to Branston about timing:

Freddd post #6: "I see nothing at all wrong with adding the folate from the start. Otherwise you just have cause of symptoms swapping back and forth. To heal you need the l-methyylfolate and MeCbl hitting the cells at the same time. If you take the folate 30-60 minutes before a sublingual, absorbtion and retention appears better, usually a small improvemnt, but then thats what I have done for 10 years, after the big ones are in place.It became a matter of gaining another few percentage points of improvement over and over again."

Fred's 2nd reply about timing when Branston was concerned about not taking MF and MB together:

Freddd post #8: "Some people start the folate days or weeks before. It only take 5 minutes for the MeCbl to start spreading throughout the body with a sublingual. Taking one dose and feeling awful can be for all sorts of reasons. Without knowing what else and all sorts of details it is impossible to even make a reasoned guess. Take them together. Swallow a l-methylfolate and put the MeCbl AND AdoCbl under you lips. That way you are NOT doing that. The particular genetic info is useless here. It just doesn't matter. The horrid symptoms can be methyltrap which can hit in minutes and hard and/or paradocical folate deficiency and/or low potassium. Those don't depend on genes. They can happen to anybody depending upon the exact details of their situation. Methyltrap is the fastest hardest hitting but can take from an hour to a day to hit.
Timing is important. Combinations are important. Both examples given didn't do appropriate timing or combinations and predictably failed."

I'm getting from this that as of February 2013 Fred preferred the method of taking MF 30-60 minutes before MB in Post #6, but in Post #8 he is saying that taking them together is ok too (unless he changed that later). What do you think? Just don't want to do it wrong, or see you change your Guide if you had it right in the first place.

 

[ahmo]

Your avi's beautiful, always a pleasure for the eyes.

That link doesn't work for me either. This seems to be the original paper, it's v technical. And another bit of info from my notes.

It's working excellent. Great you've been finding out what works for timing. There's a point at which all we can do is trial and error. For me, taking them both together works. Doing otherwise adds a complexity to my life that I don't need. I'm reasonably sure I've been doing this all along. If I haven;t mentioned, I've found, and some others have reported the same, that taking the folate sublingually means I only need half the amount I did when swallowing it. Same old folate, whichever brand, either capsule or tablet, sublingual.

Let me know if I've missed something you asked. Welcome to pr, a great place for those who are removed from the world of face to face relationships.

http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Mast_cell

Mast cell precursor cells migrate from bone barrow through the bloodstream to tissue and organ sites to eventually become mast cells. Mast cells are found abundantly in the skin, gastrointestinal and genitourinary (reproductive and urinary) tracts, but can also be found in clusters next to small blood vessels and in loose connective tissue.Mast cells might behave in different ways depending on where they end up in the body, and the cells adapt to whatever situation they find themselves. In healthy individuals, mast cells also die off regularly (this is known as apoptosis) after a set amount of time, allowing new mast cells to replace them.

Mast cells are large, oval cells with coarse granules containing various substances densely packed into the cytoplasm, but can also be spindle-shaped. You might think of the mast cell like a very thin, sometimes leaky, water balloon, packed full of even smaller balloons that contain various potent substances.

On the surface (membrane) of the mast cell are receptors (called IgE-receptors), like tiny keyholes waiting for a Y-shaped key in order to unlock the cell. Mast cells sometimes have c-Kit receptors on their surface, for the stem cell factor (SCF, c-Kit ligand) and a bone marrow biopsy, if carried out correctly, can show if your mast cells have this receptor. This is interesting if you have Mastocytosis because it can suggest treatment options.

The major function of mast cells is to protect the body from intruders (including allergens and parasites) by way of immediate hypersensitive reaction (the http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Allergic_cascade) - when mast cells perceive a threat, the cell disintegrates like a tiny bomb of chemicals.

The chemicals released result in a near-instant chain reaction, which might mean an itchy nose if only a few cells disintegrate, to asthma or hives, right the way through to anaphylactic shock (http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Anaphylaxis?action=edit&redlink=1) if there is an over-reaction and mass disintegration of mast cells. Mast cells are what makes a wound itch as it is healing, and some people with Mastocytosis report that, at times, they heal extraordinarily quickly.

No-one with too few mast cells has been found, suggesting they are essential to life.

....In allergic reactions, mast cells remain inactive until an http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Allergen?action=edit&redlink=1 binds to IgE already in association with the cell (see above). Other membrane activation events can either prime mast cells for subsequent degranulation or can act in synergy with FceRI signal transduction.http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Mast_cell#cite_note-pmid18463655-3 Allergens are generally http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Protein?action=edit&redlink=1 or http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Polysaccharide?action=edit&redlink=1.


Autoimmunity Mast cells are implicated in the pathology associated with the autoimmune disorders rheumatoid arthritis, bullous pemphigoid, and multiple sclerosis. They have been shown to be involved in the recruitment of inflammatory cells to the joints (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis) and skin (e.g. bullous pemphigoid) and

 

[surfbaby]

It's working excellent. Great you've been finding out what works for timing. There's a point at which all we can do is trial and error. For me, taking them both together works. Doing otherwise adds a complexity to my life that I don't need. I'm reasonably sure I've been doing this all along. If I haven;t mentioned, I've found, and some others have reported the same, that taking the folate sublingually means I only need half the amount I did when swallowing it. Same old folate, whichever brand, either capsule or tablet, sublingual.

Let me know if I've missed something you asked. Welcome to pr, a great place for those who are removed from the world of face to face relationships.

@ahmo Thanks for being so positive! (wish I knew how to use Emoji's!) needed that today. I am feeling so overwhelmed trying to get all these components in place and understand the protocol. There are so many questions to ask and each post I read leads me to more questions. Then sometimes I can't find a post again, like I was reading one of yours about some form of riboflavin called FMN, which probably doesn't even apply to me, but that entire discussion made me realize that many on this forum have had gene testing. And there was something about NutrEval, after googling I found that it is nutrient testing. Frustrating when I can't find the post again! Have you had nutrient or gene testing? Do you think it's important for me to get them before going too much further with FP? One of the things that appealed to me was that Fred didn't think that was necessary. I am on a limited budget, so I was hoping to not have to do that right now. But then I wonder if it would help me figure out what/how much I should be taking, as I am very sensitive and have bad reactions to things sometimes.

For example I'm having hard time finding a zinc I can tolerate other than what was already in my multi, but I have to give up the multi because it has folic acid. I'm waiting on a new multi with MF, but it doesn't have much zinc (and it's zinc citrate not the zinc picolinate in my old multi ). I have no idea how I'm going to tolerate that new multi with so many different things in it that I'm not used to. I know Fred doesn't recommend multis, but for now i'm not ready to give up on a multi because there are some nutrients I may not be getting from my very restricted diet. Food and chemical sensitivities are a big issue for me. The Nutricology zinc picolinate I tried last night really burned my tongue, throat felt sore, and made me tired and spaced out. Luckily that hasn't happened with the other FP supplements so far.

That well-known environmental allergist I told you about, told me years ago that I was in the top 3% of the most challenging patients he ever had, because I was so sensitive to many of the treatments. I even overdosed on the standard dose of LDA (turns out I needed a lower dose, so it made me more sensitive than ever), the new version of immune/allergy injections that replaced EPD from England when it was banned by the FDA in the 90's. EPD was the last thing to ever make me feel better and it worked like a miracle within 10 days. There have been some advances in LDA with more progressive doctors using it in different ways, but I just think it's too risky for me given my past history with it. An overdose could affect your lymphocytes for over a year, making you more hypersensitive! I never totally came back from the last series I did in the mid-2000's, because I got so sensitive to everything I started avoiding most things and then couldn't tolerate introducing them back into my life again. Then a few years later after root canal, two more surgeries, and peri-menopause, new things started happening like burning mouth/tongue syndrome and all this skin sensitivity.

I also have to figure out how to write shorter posts, but I thought some of this info about me might better help you understand my situation. For example the burning mouth/tongue thing is one of my worst problems. It really started to affect my life around 2006 when they changed to a more concentrated formula for All Free (unscented) laundry soap I had been using for years. The new formula was too strong and touching my clothes made my tongue/skin burn. I eventually just tried to get used to it, using half the amount, because trying other things was so much worse. Like my body only wants what it's already used to.

Slowly more things I would touch, especially with my fingertips, would make my tongue burn, like when I had to change brands of inkjet paper (now all white paper bothers me somewhat). It would usually happen when I had to change brands because they stopped making something like Zee napkins and when my paper towels changed (now I mostly only use toilet paper in their place). Then ziploc bags, then eventually almost everything would make my tongue burn to some extent just from touching it with my hands/fingertips (but I would "get used to" things I was in constant contact with). At one point it got so bad that just sitting in a chair out in public could trigger it. Electrical things and batteries started really bothering me too. As time went by, my lips started getting affected too, and would start peeling and cracking after touching/eating certain things, and the occasional food-related blood blisters started. Some things have dissipated a little even before FP (the limbic Neuroplasticity training helps with that a bit), and if I keep doing something, sometimes my body will adapt to it. Have you ever experienced that or heard about anyone else experiencing it? (having mouth and tongue symptoms almost instantly just from touching something)

I also need to not get stuck on certain things or I won't move on, and there are so many other things I want to ask about. For example, the main reason I got started with FP was to try to get my detox pathways working properly so I could go back to getting EDTA chelation IVs for my arsenic toxicity. Then after discovering more about FP, it really resonated with me, and I realized it could be my pathway to healing. Do you have suggestions for chelation, or referrals to any other members or posts?

I also have a few FP questions:

1. Yesterday I found that I can tolerate Source Naturals AdB12 a little better than the other brands. I was thinking about switching from 750 mcg to 2,000 mcg 1-2x/week to a crumb every day, but I don't think I want to substitute my morning MB12 for AdB12 daily in these early stages. Do you think that would be necessary with just doing a crumb? Maybe I'm better off staying with what I'm doing now. How often do you take your AdB12, and were you doing it differently when you started?

2. How do you know when you should increase your MF/MB12, or do you just keep steadily increasing both once or twice a week? It sounds like you increased your MF every few days in the beginning? How do you know which one to increase? In posts I've read, some people take more MB12 then MF, and some take more MF than MB12. I know Fred says there are no ratios, but it would help to know how you can tell if you're going in the right direction with each one. I definitely feel this urge to keep increasing, almost like my body wants more of both, but is it more important to increase the MF?

With my previous history of severe nerve damage from B12 deficiency 10 years ago due to a high folic acid LDA protocol (not MF), I'm afraid to get out of balance. It's not the same situation though, because I was not taking MB12 or any extra B12 besides cyano in a multi and b-complex until after the damage already happened. Would it be important to follow up with periodic blood tests, and if so, what kind?

3. What brand of sublingual MF do you use? I will probably want to switch when I get up to higher doses.

 

[ahmo]

Have you had nutrient or gene testing? Do you think it's important for me to get them before going too much further with FP

I have. I'm not sure if it's essential. Fred certainly didn't believe so. But w/ MCS, it might be important to get further understanding. @caledonia might offer an opinion.

For example I'm having hard time finding a zinc I can tolerate other than what was already in my multi, but I have to give up the multi because it has folic acid. I'm waiting on a new multi with MF, but it doesn't have much zinc (and it's zinc citrate not the zinc picolinate in my old multi ). I have no idea how I'm going to tolerate that new multi with so many different things in it that I'm not used to

I'm taking a low dose B complex, but all my minerals are single. I use zinc picolinate, but there are other choices, including the liquid.

There have been some advances in LDA with more progressive doctors using it in different ways, but I just think it's too risky for me given my past history with it. An overdose could affect your lymphocytes for over a year, making you more hypersensitive! I never totally came back from the last series I did in the mid-2000's, because I got so sensitive to everything I started avoiding most things and then couldn't tolerate introducing them back into my life again.

For example the burning mouth/tongue thing is one of my worst problems.

Fred referred to this as lack of B12, I believe.

Have you ever experienced that or heard about anyone else experiencing it? (having mouth and tongue symptoms almost instantly just from touching something)

No. I'm surprised to find we have no MCS forum here, but here's a Hypersensitivity forum.

Do you have suggestions for chelation, or referrals to any other members or posts?

I wrote about my initial efforts in a blog on footbaths. Johnmac knows a lot about chelation. Put chelation into the search engine.

Yesterday I found that I can tolerate Source Naturals AdB12 a little better than the other brands. I was thinking about switching from 750 mcg to 2,000 mcg 1-2x/week to a crumb every day, but I don't think I want to substitute my morning MB12 for AdB12 daily in these early stages. Do you think that would be necessary with just doing a crumb? Maybe I'm better off staying with what I'm doing now. How often do you take your AdB12, and were you doing it differently when you started?

I'm taking AdB12 once a week. For a year before that I took it daily, along w/ MB12. I've taken Fred's recommendation on faith, because all the other parts of the protocol have been true for me. I can only suggest you try it. See if it makes you feel any better or worse.

How do you know when you should increase your MF/MB12,

I went totally by symptoms. And it was all about folate. When I was deficient, I had symptoms. I also use self-testing. Sometimes when I increased folate, I'd get 'over-methylation' symptoms, ie histamine, restless, shortness of breath, euphoria. I'd then take a B12, unlike the often suggested use of niacin to dampen it down. I'd then ask my body the next day if it wanted to add that to my ongoing dose. Sregan has written a lot of blog entries about his progress through methylation. And I think stridor has, as well. Here's another, many blog entries on methylation from bsw. Caledonia has many links to written and videos for beginning methylation.

What brand of sublingual MF do you use? I

I hav en't encountered any marketed as sublingual. I empty a capsule or put a tab under my tongue, I've used Solgar tabs, Life Extension caps and tabs.

Again, you'll get far greater understanding of the minutiae if you start a thread w/ your ongoing questions. I've truly got limited knowledge, just my own experience.

 

[ahmo]

@surfbaby @garyfritz: comment?

Yesterday I found that I can tolerate Source Naturals AdB12 a little better than the other brands. I was thinking about switching from 750 mcg to 2,000 mcg 1-2x/week to a crumb every day, but I don't think I want to substitute my morning MB12 for AdB12 daily in these early stages. Do you think that would be necessary with just doing a crumb? Maybe I'm better off staying with what I'm doing now. How often do you take your AdB12, and were you doing it differently when you started?

The blogs I recommended: To find a member, go to the tab at top of page labelled Members. Then you can type a name into search box. But here are the blogs I mentioned last night. sregan bsw Caledonia. It turns out stridor's 2 blog entries are old, mostly referring to testosterone. But he's written not long ago about his methylation experiences,"mitochondria, mercury, methylation, mycoplasma". If you go to his profile page, and click on Postings, you'll see some other categories/titles. It's from Brad stridor that I learned about taking folate sublingually.

 

[surfbaby]

Again, you'll get far greater understanding of the minutiae if you start a thread w/ your ongoing questions. I've truly got limited knowledge, just my own experience.

@ahmo. You are awesome! Thanks for all this info. A lot of what you said really resonated (see multi-quotes below.) More success today! First almost normal BM in 2 months, although not quite rid of the runs yet. Also this morning almost all of the peeling skin from my lips was gone except one split, and skin flaking from my face much better (both really flared up when I first started FP).

The main reason I've been waiting on starting a thread is I've been hoping my eyes will get better. They got a little better when I first started FP, enough to allow me to finally post you. I think because I've been online so much, they are really irritated, and I'm having blurriness. My brain gets affected after being online too long and my eyes get out of focus, making me feel like I have vertigo for quite awhile afterwards. One of my main concerns about starting FP, was whether I could continue to be online enough to do it. Think I would do better if I could find/afford a PC with a keyboard that had a screen I could tolerate instead of iPad (Can't find a decent iPad keyboard, and have always been more of a PC person, although all the technology has changed so much since I have been able to see again.)

Also you might not realize that talking about my history/symptoms is difficult for me. I'm sure you've experienced some ostracizing from other people who don't understand your health problems. You would think people would treat you better if you were not well, but they often judge and are not always supportive. So I don't talk about my more weird symptoms because of the reactions/rejections I've gotten in the past. There are a lot of really great people out there too, and my family does their best to understand, but often I've encountered people who don't, or even think you're nuts (including my family at times). Just putting it all out there on the internet is also a bit scary. Corresponding with you is slowly helping me get over my shame/fear. I just know the MF/MB will continue to help me so I can branch out on the forum more, especially when I can get my levels up a bit more.

No. I'm surprised to find we have no MCS forum here, but here's a Hypersensitivity forum.

I'm surprised about that too. I also couldn't find anything about breast implants, which I think was the main thing that made me ill in the mid-80's. A lot of people got sick from the kind that I had, which were coated with polyurethane foam. That didn't seem shocking at the time, but is unbelievable now! Have you ever seen anything about breast implants on this forum?

I'm taking AdB12 once a week. For a year before that I took it daily, along w/ MB12. I've taken Fred's recommendation on faith, because all the other parts of the protocol have been true for me. I can only suggest you try it. See if it makes you feel any better or worse.

We previously had the discussion about whether to take AdB12 on a day without MB12 or just skipping one MB12 dose that day (skipping one dose seemed to be the consensus from Fred's quote I gave you). I just want to clarify how you did it. I know that when taking your AdB12 once a week you have been skipping your MB12 that entire day. However when you were taking it daily, did you take it at exactly the same time as MB12, and did you take it each time you took MB12 or with just one of your MB12 doses for the day? I definitely want to try it daily the way you did it. If I can't tolerate it, I will go back to 1 to 2 times a week, skipping one MB12 dose that day.

I went totally by symptoms. And it was all about folate. When I was deficient, I had symptoms. I also use self-testing. Sometimes when I increased folate, I'd get 'over-methylation' symptoms, ie histamine, restless, shortness of breath, euphoria. I'd then take a B12, unlike the often suggested use of niacin to dampen it down. I'd then ask my body the next day if it wanted to add that to my ongoing dose. Sregan has written a lot of blog entries about his progress through methylation. And I think stridor has, as well. Here's another, many blog entries on methylation from bsw. Caledonia has many links to written and videos for beginning methylation.

This is very helpful! I am starting to understand what you mean about the 'over-methylation' symptoms, especially as I am increasing my dosage. So you would take an extra amount of MB12 to dampen it down in addition to your current daily dose? Then the next day when you asked your body if it wanted to add that to your ongoing dose, did you mean the increased MF or the additional MB12 or both? Also when you were doing your increasing regularly, did you usually increase the MF first or MB12 first or both together on the same day? Did you increase a small amount with each dose for the day or just increase one dose each day? I've been increasing 100 mcg with each dose for the day of both MF and MB12 on the same day (once or twice a week), but only because I wasn't sure how else to do it. Seems to be working, but I do think I get some over-methylation symptoms each time I increase, that's why I want to know if there is a better sequence of which to increase first, etc. But it passes in a few days and I'm better. And then I want more! I will also check out all your referrals when my eyes feel better.

I hav en't encountered any marketed as sublingual. I empty a capsule or put a tab under my tongue, I've used Solgar tabs, Life Extension caps and tabs.

I think you said you like the Life Extension more now? So you find that by doing it this way you can take only half the amount? Does it dissolve quickly? Does it taste terrible? Do you have your MB12 sublingual in your mouth at the same time so maybe that helps with the taste? I did find an actual sublingual on Amazon, but it contains both 800 mcg of MF and 1000 mcg of MB12. It is by Neuro Genetic Solutions, and is called Methyl B12 with L-Methylfolate. Not cheap at 19.95 for 60 tablets. I don't know how to copy a link on my iPad other then to email it to you, but I'm sure you can find it.

I love your cute Emoji's! Where did you get them? I know there are some on my iPad if I can ever find them again, but I know they weren't as cute. I don't dare update my iPad to see if they have cuter ones now, because the last time I updated it, I couldn't figure out how to do anything for a long time.

I just noticed that you sent a new post. I will check it out when my eyes are better.

 

[ahmo]

@surfbaby Yes, I understand that your eyes are a problem, as is relating. I'm only hoping to give you the benefit of others who have greater understanding than I do. We do occasionally have some misunderstandings, 'ostracism' here, but it tends to be about people claiming cures. In general, it's an incredibly supportive environment.

Corresponding with you is slowly helping me get over my shame/fear. I just know the MF/MB will continue to help me so I can branch out on the forum more, especially when I can get my levels up a bit more.

When I searched breast implants in the search box at the top of the page, the only link was to the sentence you've just written above. However, when I used the google search, at the bottom of the forum page, I find some listings. You might see if there's anything useful. To get to the google search, click on Forums, at bottom or top of any page. Then scroll to the very bottom, you'll find google search. Doesn't look like anything, but a far superior search than the other.

I thought earlier of someone else who's been involved a lot in chelation, but can no longer remember it. However, Eric, here, documented his chelation progress.

However when you were taking it daily, did you take it at exactly the same time as MB12, and did you take it each time you took MB12 or with just one of your MB12 doses for the day?

When I took AdB12 daily, I took it w/ my early AM dose of folate, along w/ MB12. Then I had an additional MB12 dose at midday.

So you would take an extra amount of MB12 to dampen it down in addition to your current daily dose? Then the next day when you asked your body if it wanted to add that to your ongoing dose, did you mean the increased MF or the additional MB12 or both? Also when you were doing your increasing regularly, did you usually increase the MF first or MB12 first or both together on the same day? Did you increase a small amount with each dose for the day or just increase one dose each day?

The next day I asked my body about adding the additional B12 to my running total, or to just leave it as a one-off correction. The answer varied from time to time. I followed Fred's suggestion, once I finally asked him how to proceed: increase folate 100-200mcg every day or 2. This worked fine, generally 100mcg. I did not always get symptoms when I raised it, in fact, the majority of the time I did not. In general, I divided folate into 3 near equal doses, AM, midday, PM.

I think you said you like the Life Extension more now? So you find that by doing it this way you can take only half the amount? Does it dissolve quickly? Does it taste terrible? Do you have your MB12 sublingual in your mouth at the same time so maybe that helps with the taste?

Taking half the amount resulted from not taking the folate orally. During the time I was doing nightly footbaths, I added the folate to it. Otherwise, just dumping capsule into mouth, or tablet. There is no taste at all, and absorption seems to happen within a few minutes. I find I often am eating a carrot quite soon after, whoops, but it absorbs with no proble, The solgar tablets have a slightly sweet taste, due to mannitol, but the LE tablets and capsules have no taste.

All the emojis I've used here come from your options in this text box. The little smiley face in the line-up at the top of this box opens emotis at the bottom of your post. When you click on one, it's inserted wherever your cursor is. But I've gotten into emotis big time, since words seem to fail me so frequently. Here's a nice place to look.
For some reason, this site isn't copying images for me today, but it's another good one. You right-click, save image, and then paste into your text box.

 

[caledonia]

@surfbaby It looks like you have multiple types of sensitivities going on.

Possibly leaky gut from candida or whatever bad gut bacteria - could lead to food and supplement sensitivities

Low glutathione from genetics + enviromental toxins - could lead to chemical sensitivities - you could have MTHFR
and/or MTR/MTRR SNPs and/or GST (glutathione) SNPs. Toxic metals such as mercury, lead and arsenic affect multiple enzyme pathways such as MTHFR, MTR, and CBS. So even if you don't have mutations, those metals act like mutations. If you have both it's a double whammy.

Mercury + arsenic - supposed to be behind chemical sensitivities - you already mention arsenic. You mention a root canal - any past or present mercury amalgam fillings, and is there mercury in your root canal? Any other mercury exposure?

Mercury - can cause EMF sensitivity - you can try products from lessemf.com to shield the EMFs. There are a lot of scams out there like crystals and whatnot. Shielding and grounding make the most sense scientfically.

Anesthesia from surgery is bad for those with MTHFR mutations (unless you get the right kind). If you need further surgery, ask on this board first for more info.

If you decide to do metal chelation, I suggest doing Andrew Cutler's frequent dose chelation. I am prepping to do this myself. IV EDTA is the absolute worst thing you can do - I would suggest avoiding this method.

=-==-=-=-=
As far as what kind of testing to get - I've found the genetic testing to be very enlightening as far as why I am the way I am. You can read the SNPs Interpretation Guide in my signature link for what kind of info can be gained from that. 23andme just raised their price to $199 so it's not quite the no-brainer that it was.

As far as functional testing, I've done:

HDRI methylation panel - very enlightening to show how screwed up my methylation is, but not so useful for treatment. It indicated a possible CBS problem which I did have. Interpret with Rich Vanks Interpretation. A cheaper alternative is the Doctors Data methylation panel - basically what you're looking for is the SAM/SAH ratio, as well as RBC folate (what's in the cells not the bloodstream). Interpret with Ben Lynch's interpretation.

Nutreval test interpreted with the Nutreval Interpretation Guide - see my signature link - the most expensive, but very helpful for treatment - it's something like 6 tests rolled into one. The Krebs cycle is very enlightening. The neurotransmitter section is helpful for mental health.

Stool testing - very helpful for gut treatment - identifies gut bugs and what meds or supps will kill them.

Hair toxins and elements test interpreted by Cutler method - very helpful to see what's going on with metals. I've done provoked urine tests, but would avoid those.

An unprovoked elements urine test from Doctors Data is good for seeing cobalt (B12) levels. Mine is below detection limit! The rest replicates what's on the Nutreval.

Urine sulfate strips - to monitor sulfate levels for CBS treatment

24 hour adrenal saliva testing to determine if you have adrenal fatigue. I wouldn't try any adrenal supplements without prior testing. If you have adrenal fatigue, you will also be wasting electrolytes and benefit from supplementing those. You will probably see deficiencies on your mineral tests.

Thyroid - complete thyroid panel, not just TSH. My TSH was normal while my antibodies were sky high, indicating autoimmune thyroiditis.

=-=-==-=-

Since you have known gut issues, my suggestion would be to do stool testing and work your way through the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program first. Then work on methylation, then do metal chelation. Healing multifaceted illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, and it also allows the costs to be spread out over time.

 

[surfbaby]

Since you have known gut issues, my suggestion would be to do stool testing and work your way through the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program first. Then work on methylation, then do metal chelation. Healing multifaceted illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, and it also allows the costs to be spread out over time.

Thanks for all the info. I have had both hair testing and 24-hour urine which showed borderline arsenic toxicity, but mercury was very low, even though I have some old fillings. What company do you recommend for the stool testing? I take a good probiotic and am on an anti-inflammatory diet, which was really helping, until the chelation followed by glutathione flared everything up again.

The root canal did not involve any mercury, and any recent fillings for past 20 years were done at the holistic dentist. I do think a lot of my sensitivity problems got worsened by the LDA injections I got that caused a snowball effect of complications. Also prior to eye surgery in 2010 (due to rapidly growing cataract and scarring of cornea from hpv from uveitis in right eye), so I had to take steroid eyedrops and antiviral pills for almost a year. My environmental/allergist MD really warned me against doing that, because it could have long term consequences on my sensitivities/immune system. I didn't really have a choice, because nothing else was working to stop the scarring. Unfortunately the surgery was not successful, and the damage done might not even be repaired by a cornea transplant, so I am now legally blind in that eye. There are so many other factors involved in my situation that it is hard to unravel. I believe onset of perimenopause/menopause has also been a huge factor. Ironically, while sensitivities are worse, fibromyalgia is better.

My environmental/allergist MD also advised against my only root canal about 10 years ago. When I developed a severe b1deficiency from a high full lick acid protocol related to the LDA injections, I had such severe nerve damage in that tooth I couldn't Barrett. It turned out there was nothing wrong with it that the root canal doctor specialist could see

 

[surfbaby]

@surfbaby
Since you have known gut issues, my suggestion would be to do stool testing and work your way through the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program first. Then work on methylation, then do metal chelation. Healing multifaceted illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, and it also allows the costs to be spread out over time.

Oops! I hit Post Reply by mistake, and since I was dictating and it didn't type correctly, none of the last sentence makes any sense, so I will repeat:

My environmental/allergist MD also advised against my only root canal about 10 years ago, due to possible immune consequences. When I developed a severe B12 deficiency from a high folic acid protocol related to the LDA injections (they later discontinued that protocol because I wasn't the only one), I had such severe nerve damage body-wide that I couldn't bear the pain in that tooth. The root canal specialist couldn't find anything wrong with the tooth, but I begged him to go forward with it anyway, which I regret now.

It will take me a while to digest/research all this info, but I really appreciate it a lot! I have limited time on the computer because of serious light sensitivities/limitations with my eyes. My biggest problem is not being able to afford most of these tests financially. I will have to figure that part out. Meanwhile I will look into the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program, but I don't want to give up on methylation yet. I've done gut rebuilding programs in the past with mixed reviews. Some set me back greatly (took years to recover from one), and my living situation does not allow me to be completely laid up at this time. However I'm really excited about Freddd's Protocol, I'm already seeing results, plus I'm already a month into it. Do you think it's a bad idea to go forward, even slowly, before resolving the gut situation? I think they're all related.

Thanks again for taking the time to write me! I hope you don't mind if I contact you again when I have more questions about everything you laid out.

 

[surfbaby]

@surfbaby Yes, I understand that your eyes are a problem, as is relating. I'm only hoping to give you the benefit of others who have greater understanding than I do. We do occasionally have some misunderstandings, 'ostracism' here, but it tends to be about people claiming cures. In general, it's an incredibly supportive environment.

@ahmo Thanks for referring me to Caledonia! She sent me a lot of really great info. I have to learn not to get overwhelmed and just take it one day at a time. She suggested doing gut rebuilding first, then methylation, then chelation. Sounds like a good plan, but I really don't want to give up on methylation after being a month into it and already seeing results. Also have to figure out the finances for various testing, but will work on it, and will research the things she suggested. FP has been affordable for me so far. Also I f I stop FP now, my eyesight might go back to where it was before I started FP, and then I won't be able to continue as much on the computer! I think FP will continue to help my eyesight improve if nothing else!

The next day I asked my body about adding the additional B12 to my running total, or to just leave it as a one-off correction. The answer varied from time to time. I followed Fred's suggestion, once I finally asked him how to proceed: increase folate 100-200mcg every day or 2. This worked fine, generally 100mcg. I did not always get symptoms when I raised it, in fact, the majority of the time I did not. In general, I divided folate into 3 near equal doses, AM, midday, PM.

I just want to make sure I understand what you did. When Fred told you to increase the folate every day or two, were you still in the startup phase, and approx what amount were you taking each of the 3x at around the time he told you that? (I am also doing 3 nearly equal doses a day, but my current dose is only 400 mcg MF each time, and also 1,000 mcg MB12 each time. Just wondering if you were at a similar place then to where I am at now.).

Did you increase folate 100-200mcg automatically every day or two regardless of your symptoms? Was the increase 100-200mcg each of the 3 times, or was that the total increase for the day? That sounds like you would get your level of MF up pretty fast, or maybe that's the idea? Did you only increase your MB12 as needed to help dampen down any over-methylation, or did you automatically increase MB12 each time you increased MF, and by how many mcg? Would it take a whole 1,000mcg MB12 tablet to dampen down over-methylation?

When you say over-methylation raised your histamine levels, I'm assuming that means you got more inflammation and/or allergies? I definitely get more inflammation at first each time I increase MF, but it subsides. I've been increasing by 300mcg/day (100 mcg each of the 3 times), but only an average of once a week. I've also been increasing my MB12 each time I increase MF, not by the same mcg, but basically increasing by 1/4 tablet of each 3x/day (increasing by 100mcg x 3 for MF and 250mcg x 3 for MB12). No real rhyme or reason to it, just seemed an easy way to do it. Do you think the over-methylation each time I increase MF means I'm not taking enough MB12? I think I need a lot of MB12, but I'm a little cautious about increasing it too fast, because when I had the severe B-12 deficiency 10 years ago, bigger amounts would cause a lot of painful nerve regeneration. Haven't had that yet at the rate I've been going now, but I've seen glimpses of it.

Do you think maybe 300mcg once a week is too much spread out too far, and I should do what you did instead? Although at this point I'm still not clear whether you increased 100mcg each of the 3x or just once a day, so you might have increased by a total of 300mcg per day like I did, but just more often. Sorry for so many questions on this, but this is kind of where I'm a little stuck at the moment :thumbdown:, and while what you did might not be exactly right for me, it sounds like we have some similar issues with the over-methylation. So I figure it wouldn't hurt to try out the way you did it, and at least have some direction.

Did you ever get up to the really high penetration doses? That's the part that kind of scares me the most about FP, including the expense aspect.

Taking half the amount resulted from not taking the folate orally. During the time I was doing nightly footbaths, I added the folate to it. Otherwise, just dumping capsule into mouth, or tablet. There is no taste at all, and absorption seems to happen within a few minutes. I find I often am eating a carrot quite soon after, whoops, but it absorbs with no proble, The solgar tablets have a slightly sweet taste, due to mannitol, but the LE tablets and capsules have no taste.

So you are able to take only half the amount from either adding to your footbaths or just dumping it in your mouth? I wasn't sure when you said "Taking half the amount resulted from not taking the folate orally" if "orally" included dumping it in your mouth. Sometimes I take things too literally, and that wouldn't make sense anyway, because why would you do it that way if faster absorption was the only benefit. Do you try to get it more under your tongue? Before I read your post, when I took my Solgar today, I thought it might be sweet enough to do it that way.

All the emojis I've used here come from your options in this text box. The little smiley face in the line-up at the top of this box opens emotis at the bottom of your post. When you click on one, it's inserted wherever your cursor is. But I've gotten into emotis big time, since words seem to fail me so frequently. Here's a nice place to look.
For some reason, this site isn't copying images for me today, but it's another good one. You right-click, save image, and then paste into your text box.

Thanks for teaching me so much! I might not be using the right Emoji's all the time because of my eyesight, so excuse if I use one that doesn't make sense. This is definitely more fun than I've had in a while!

 

[surfbaby]

@surfbaby Since you have known gut issues, my suggestion would be to do stool testing and work your way through the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program first. Then work on methylation, then do metal chelation. Healing multifaceted illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, and it also allows the costs to be spread out over time.

@caledonia I forgot to mention in my previous reply that I didn't start having gut issues until about a year after getting polyurethane foam-covered silicone breast implants in 1986. I didn't get IBS until about a year after I had an inguinal (groin) surgery in 2007. That surgery is notorious for causing bowel issues, especially if you get the mesh. My environmental/allergist MD told me to make sure they did not use any mash, and they were able to perform the surgery without it. However from my understanding there can still be bowel-related side effects.

 

[ahmo]

Great you're in touch w/ Caledonia.

When Fred told you to increase the folate every day or two, were you still in the startup phase, and approx what amount were you taking each of the 3x at around the time he told you that?

I was probably stuck on about 400mcg for a long time. Because I'd done it incorrectly ear;lier, w/o the B12, I was very cautious, overly cautious. I had poor comprehension, was floundering, trying to understand things. I can't find my earliest notes, but here's a sample, clearly some time after starting: 22nd: total 9.6mg MFolate, divided AM3.2, midday 3, PM3; 23rd: add .2mg in PM, total 9.8; 24th: add 1mg: 3mg AM, 3.5 midday, 3 PM; 25th: 3.2mg; 3.5mg; 3mg.

Fred has said it's easier to go rather quickly increasing doses. For some this works. Caledonia counsels low and slow. For some this works better.

When you say over-methylation raised your histamine levels, I'm assuming that means you got more inflammation and/or allergies? I definitely get more inflammation at first each time I increase MF, but it subsides.

This seems to be a common reaction. For me it was not about allergies, but itchy eyes, sniffly, a bit itchy. For no discernible reason, except the folate.

Do you think maybe 300mcg once a week is too much spread out too far, and I should do what you did instead?

I think that's a lot at one time. You'd be better off, likely, adding 100mcg every other day, rather than 300mcg all at once.

Did you ever get up to the really high penetration doses? That's the part that kind of scares me the most about FP, including the expense aspect.

Yes. I was up to 30mg. I'd been prepared to have that eventuality, as that's the dose of folate in rx Deplin, which is some sort of reference point. Finally at that point I realized that not only was I still coming up w/ deficiency symptoms, but that I was in adrenal strife. I discovered that I'm one of those for whom vegetable folate, which is folinic form, blocked the Mfolate. I stopped the vegetables, and quickly was able to cut my dose of folate by 1/2. Once I then stopped swallowing it, I went from 15mg to 5mg. I've been at 2mg for at least most of this year.

So you are able to take only half the amount from either adding to your footbaths or just dumping it in your mouth?

Correct. By orally, I mean swallowing it. Don't know an elegant term for that.I tend to dump it into gum line, since that;s habitual from taking B12. But it works equally well by putting it under tongue.

There are a number of us who report having to go up to high doses of both B12 and folate, reaching some saturation point, and then coming down. I was horrified at the thought of paying for the high doses in perpetuity, and turns out to have been unnecessary.

 

[caledonia]

Thanks for all the info. I have had both hair testing and 24-hour urine which showed borderline arsenic toxicity, but mercury was very low, even though I have some old fillings.

Did you get elements (minerals) tested on the hair test or just the toxic metals? The mercury will likely show low if it's an old exposure, but a disordered mineral pattern gives clues that it's still there screwing things up.

What company do you recommend for the stool testing? I take a good probiotic and am on an anti-inflammatory diet, which was really helping, until the chelation followed by glutathione flared everything up again.

The Doctors Data test I mention in the 4R Gut Rebuilding document is fine. Chelation is known to flare up candida if you have mercury. You may need to be on herb anti-fungals such as caprylic acid, or grapefruit seed extract while you work on methylation and chelation. For me, each anti-fungal lasted about a year, then stopped working, then I would rotate to the next one for a year and so on. I had three I rotated between.

The root canal did not involve any mercury, and any recent fillings for past 20 years were done at the holistic dentist. I do think a lot of my sensitivity problems got worsened by the LDA injections I got that caused a snowball effect of complications. Also prior to eye surgery in 2010 (due to rapidly growing cataract and scarring of cornea from hpv from uveitis in right eye), so I had to take steroid eyedrops and antiviral pills for almost a year. My environmental/allergist MD really warned me against doing that, because it could have long term consequences on my sensitivities/immune system. I didn't really have a choice, because nothing else was working to stop the scarring. Unfortunately the surgery was not successful, and the damage done might not even be repaired by a cornea transplant, so I am now legally blind in that eye. There are so many other factors involved in my situation that it is hard to unravel. I believe onset of perimenopause/menopause has also been a huge factor. Ironically, while sensitivities are worse, fibromyalgia is better.

If your immune system is whacked out, all the more reason to work on your gut. Something like 80% of the immune system resides in the gut.

 

[caledonia]

Oops! I hit Post Reply by mistake, and since I was dictating and it didn't type correctly, none of the last sentence makes any sense, so I will repeat:

My environmental/allergist MD also advised against my only root canal about 10 years ago, due to possible immune consequences. When I developed a severe B12 deficiency from a high folic acid protocol related to the LDA injections (they later discontinued that protocol because I wasn't the only one), I had such severe nerve damage body-wide that I couldn't bear the pain in that tooth. The root canal specialist couldn't find anything wrong with the tooth, but I begged him to go forward with it anyway, which I regret now.

It will take me a while to digest/research all this info, but I really appreciate it a lot! I have limited time on the computer because of serious light sensitivities/limitations with my eyes. My biggest problem is not being able to afford most of these tests financially. I will have to figure that part out. Meanwhile I will look into the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program, but I don't want to give up on methylation yet. I've done gut rebuilding programs in the past with mixed reviews. Some set me back greatly (took years to recover from one), and my living situation does not allow me to be completely laid up at this time. However I'm really excited about Freddd's Protocol, I'm already seeing results, plus I'm already a month into it. Do you think it's a bad idea to go forward, even slowly, before resolving the gut situation? I think they're all related.

Thanks again for taking the time to write me! I hope you don't mind if I contact you again when I have more questions about everything you laid out.

Seeing as how you're already into methylation and having good results, you might as well keep going When you feel ready, check out the gut rebuilding program and see what you can do with that.

I would definitely have both of those in place though before doing any chelation.

 

[surfbaby]

I

@ahmo Thanks for clarifying. Still not clear on a couple things.

I think that's a lot at one time. You'd be better off, likely, adding 100mcg every other day, rather than 300mcg all at once.

I'm not clear about is how fast you increased your MB12. Did you only increase your MB12 as needed to help dampen down any over-methylation, and then decide the next day if you should add that increase to your MB12 dose, or did you also automatically increase MB12 incrementally similarly each time you increased MF, and by how many mcg? I'm especially interested in how you did it in the early stages where I'm at. If you can't remember exact amounts, just any idea you can give me would help.

How many mcg of MB12 would it take to dampen down over-methylation? I guess it would depend how many mcg of MF and MB12 you were taking at the time as to how much it would take to dampen things down, but any example of your ratio would be helpful.

I'm gathering per Fred that the MF increase is something that should be done regularly, as fast as possible depending on symptoms, to get your dose up there. But I'm not sure how you go about deciding on increasing MB12 during that time as well. Also how do I know if I'm taking enough and MB12 right now, like what signs do I look for? I only determined my starting doses by reading FP posts and protocols, and the recommendations were somewhat varied.

I was probably stuck on about 400mcg for a long time. Because I'd done it incorrectly ear;lier, w/o the B12, I was very cautious, overly cautious. I had poor comprehension, was floundering, trying to understand things. I can't find my earliest notes, but here's a sample, clearly some time after starting: 22nd: total 9.6mg MFolate, divided AM3.2, midday 3, PM3; 23rd: add .2mg in PM, total 9.8; 24th: add 1mg: 3mg AM, 3.5 midday, 3 PM; 25th: 3.2mg; 3.5mg; 3mg.

Some of the math didn't seem to add up, but I think I get the idea. Maybe you decreased somewhere in here at some point too?

Fred has said it's easier to go rather quickly increasing doses. For some this works. Caledonia counsels low and slow. For some this works better.

I do think I want to try to go rather quickly increasing doses like you did. Guess I will ask for advice on the higher doses when I get there and not worry about it for now! I will start trying to increase by 100 mcg every other day as you suggested starting tomorrow.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia I forgot to mention in my previous reply that I didn't start having gut issues until about a year after getting polyurethane foam-covered silicone breast implants in 1986. I didn't get IBS until about a year after I had an inguinal (groin) surgery in 2007. That surgery is notorious for causing bowel issues, especially if you get the mesh. My environmental/allergist MD told me to make sure they did not use any mash, and they were able to perform the surgery without it. However from my understanding there can still be bowel-related side effects.

Here are some side effects for silicone breast implants:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nalini-chilkov/breast-implant-surgery-_b_816077.html

• arthritis and joint pain
• fatigue
• memory loss
• cognitive impairment: poor concentration
• metal poisoning due to platinum exposure (in silicone implants)
• silicone migration into lymph nodes and other organs
• debilitating autoimmne disease such as fibromyalgia,dermatomyositis, polymyositis, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, mixed connective-tissue disease, pulmonary fibrosis, eosinophilic fasciitis, and polymyalgia.

The polyurethane breaks down into a substance which is possibly carcinogenic, but the risk seems pretty low (assuming this isn't flawed research).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4366700/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4366700/
Hopefully, you've had them removed!

You may possibly want to add sauna at some later point to get out the non-metal toxins. Your adrenals must be working ok first or you won't be able to tolerate the heat, and it could be dangerous.

Working on the gut and methylation both should help with detox. This article says gut issues are common for those with silicone implants:
http://healingbreastimplantillness.com/detoxification/
http://healingbreastimplantillness.com/detoxification/
That looks like a great website overall for info on breast implants causing illness.

 

[ahmo]

Did you only increase your MB12 as needed to help dampen down any over-methylation, and then decide the next day if you should add that increase to your MB12 dose, or did you also automatically increase MB12 incrementally similarly each time you increased MF, and by how many mcg? I'm especially interested in how you did it in the early stages where I'm at. If you can't remember exact amounts, just any idea you can give me would help.

I did not automatically increase B12, and all my experience was in tracking folate deficiency. I cannot offer an answer re how the B12 affected me. Until, that is, the point at which my neurological symptoms were no longer present, and life-long insomnia, horrific since ME, disappeared. So my B12 raises were in connection to folate increaqses, but not each time. I proceeded by asking my body. Here's a youtube 3 minute lesson, and another link in text.I'll post a couple links to simple self-testing below. I already had experience as a bodyworker, so self-testing has been a good fit for me, gaining confidence over time. But not everyone finds it as easy.

How many mcg of MB12 would it take to dampen down over-methylation? I

For me, 1mg Enzymatic Therapies.

I'm gathering per Fred that the MF increase is something that should be done regularly, as fast as possible depending on symptoms, to get your dose up there. But I'm not sure how you go about deciding on increasing MB12 during that time as well. Also how do I know if I'm taking enough and MB12 right now, like what signs do I look for?

See above

Some of the math didn't seem to add up, but I think I get the idea. Maybe you decreased somewhere in here at some point too?

No, I wasn't decreasing. I intended to show you how I was increasing by adding the new amount to one of my 3 daily doses. My preference was to increase AM or midday, but sometimes my body wasn't ready for it until the evening.

 

[surfbaby]

Seeing as how you're already into methylation and having good results, you might as well keep going When you feel ready, check out the gut rebuilding program and see what you can do with that.

I would definitely have both of those in place though before doing any chelation.

I just wrote a long post to ahmo trying to figure out some of my FP dosages, and it took all my brainpower. Unfortunately can't think straight anymore, and have to rest my eyes until tomorrow.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on increasing my FP dosages, as well as thoughts on my current doses. I know Fred says there are no ratios, but seeing what others have done can often help me figure things out. Sorry I can't think clearly enough to reference my questions to her, but they are all on posts above this post on this page. Still learning how to use the forum, and that combined with my eye problems makes it take forever to write a post!

I may have figured out a way to get some help to do some of the various testing you suggested, so I definitely will have more questions in the next day or two. This is very helpful, and I so appreciate it!