What has helped you with sleep/insomnia - post links

[lenora]

Hello @ Sarah94, @Mary and @Wayne,

That's interesting to hear about sodium butyrate. I'll give it a try, what is there to lose except higher cholesterol! We eat a lot of sweet potatoes, so I could just go ahead and add it to them. I'm actually used to eating them without anything, find them sweet and tasty but would be willing to try them with butter.

Yes, @Mary that would be/is a problem. Changing sheets and then having to put a weighted blanket on the bed wouldn't be easy. If you've tried the blanket, do let us know what you think.

Does anyone else find it difficult to even have the cover.s tucked in too tight? I'm like that, so that's one of the reasons I ruled out a weighted blanket. Now my husband loves to feel all tucked in and cozy, but I've always slept with my feet free....never know if you'll have to run away quickly, I guess. Actually, it's painful for them to be tucked in at all. I can see where weighted blankets would be comforting to those who need them....what are they weighted with.

Anything that helps, especially if it isn't a drug, is a very good thing, indeed. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely give the sodiumb butyrate a try and will hope for the very best. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Judee]

I discovered this past year that eating butter at night an hour or two before bedtime consistently (and significantly) improved my sleep.

Does it have to be grass fed butter?

 

[Wayne]

never know if you'll have to run away quickly, I guess.

Hi @lenora -- Yes, that must be it--not knowing when we may have to run away quickly! As you may have guessed, I'm another one of those who feels a need to sleep with my "feet free".

Does it have to be grass fed butter?

We always buy organic butter, but I doubt most of what we buy is from grass fed cows. Though I don't think "grass fed" is necessary to get the butyrate, I much prefer animal and dairy products from grass fed animals.

A little tidbit: -- Apparently, the reason salmon and other fish have high levels of Omega 3 fatty acids is because of the green plankton they eat. When animals eat "green" grass, they too end up with high levels of Omega 3's. It's the green foods that allow animals to produce those healthy Omega 3's.

 

[Mary]

It promotes brain relaxation.

Can you provide a link to the product you take and also advise how much you're taking, and when you take it? It's a brand new supplement to me and I know nothing about it - thanks!

 

[bertiedog]

if I have something important that I need to be 'on' for or feel decent (flying, doc appts, work projects) I almost always have to take a Xanax. It's the only thing that will shut off my brain which gets over-excited with anxiety at the mere thought that I MUST be well-rested for the next day

I am exactly the same only I take a quarter of clonazapn not Xanax. My problem is definitely my overactive brain, it just doesn't want to shut off and recently my sleep has been getting worse and worse, often not getting off to sleep till 2 am having finally given in and taken the quarter tab just before 1 am. I also take 25 mg Lyrica before I go to bed sometimes with GABA but often these don't work. I am going to have to try and take the Lyrica around 10 pm I think to see if that works better so I go to bed feeling sleepy.

Insomnia is a huge mental problem when one persistently tells oneself how important lots of sleep is and this is definitely the narrative these days. It adds hugely to the problem I find.

However I definitely can do so much more in the mornings when I have slept at least 6 hours but recently am struggling to get that amount of sleep. I think it must be an age thing because I am 73 in March and I have read that we don't make as much Melatonin as we age. However even 1/2 mg Melatonin can make me extremely dizzy which causes huge anxiety with no chance of sleeping! There was one article I found that Melatonin was counter indicated in elderly subjects with orthostatic intolerance which was interesting.

I do have combinations of "bad" SNPS to do with how the brain functions so maybe that is also playing a big part.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

However even 1/2 mg Melatonin can make me extremely dizzy which causes huge anxiety with no chance of sleeping!

I had the same problem with melatonin causing anxiety and insomnia until I lower the dose from 1 mg to about 1/2 a mg.

You might only need 1/4 mg or less to help you sleep. I've seen melatonin tablets that were 300 mcgs. GNC use to sell some. That's a little less than 1/3 of a milligram.

 

[bertiedog]

had the same problem with melatonin causing anxiety and insomnia until I lower the dose from 1 mg to about 1/2 a mg.

That's interesting Jim about the lower dose because my son bought me liquid Melatonin and I did take a very small amount dropped direct into my mouth and that didn't my me dizzy at all but it relaxed me and I was able to fall asleep so after that I tried the 1/2 of a 1 mg tablet taken 30 minutes before bed but that had a dreadful effect on me within 20 minutes the dizzy lurches started and by the time I got in bed my adrenaline which is overactive anyway was in full flow. I stayed lying on 3 pillows for 2 hours in a real anxiety state until it passed and so at 1 pm I got up and went downstairs and spent the rest of the night in my lounge and was relaxed and able to sleep from 1.45 till 6 am before I went back to bed and slept for another hour.

As you can imagine I won't be touching the tablets again. I remember it happened previously a few years ago with the same dose and same tablet hence me not touching it for so long.

I will try the tiny amount of Melatonin on top of the low dose Lyrica again but not tonight because I need to get over a very bad night's sleep last night because of worry of the 31 Botox for migraine injections I had done this morning for the first time. (They were actually ok and only took 5 minutes so it was ridiculous being so worried).

Pam

 

[lenora]

@bertiedog ....Hello, were you able to stay asleep? That's my big problem. I'll wake up and then the whole night is spent in that state.

There are liquids in many things, including medications. When Prozac was first introduced, I had a very ill daughter who would just fall on the floor with the doses they were giving her. I figured something had to be lower, but what? I kept calling drugstores and the manufacturer itself and found liquid Prozac. I swear that within three days on the lower dose, she was back to being herself again. What a relief!!

So I do like to hear about liquid forms of anything when possible. I'm surprised that Melatonin is in liquid form, but that's just great. Perhaps I'll try it...one can only hope. Thanks for the info. Yours, Lenora.

 

[AwakeButAsleep]

Melatonin all the way!

 

[keenly]

Hello @ Sarah94, @Mary and @Wayne,

That's interesting to hear about sodium butyrate. I'll give it a try, what is there to lose except higher cholesterol! We eat a lot of sweet potatoes, so I could just go ahead and add it to them. I'm actually used to eating them without anything, find them sweet and tasty but would be willing to try them with butter.

Yes, @Mary that would be/is a problem. Changing sheets and then having to put a weighted blanket on the bed wouldn't be easy. If you've tried the blanket, do let us know what you think.

Does anyone else find it difficult to even have the cover.s tucked in too tight? I'm like that, so that's one of the reasons I ruled out a weighted blanket. Now my husband loves to feel all tucked in and cozy, but I've always slept with my feet free....never know if you'll have to run away quickly, I guess. Actually, it's painful for them to be tucked in at all. I can see where weighted blankets would be comforting to those who need them....what are they weighted with.

Anything that helps, especially if it isn't a drug, is a very good thing, indeed. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely give the sodiumb butyrate a try and will hope for the very best. Yours, Lenora.

Cholesterol is an essential nutrient.

 

[keenly]

Melatonin all the way!

yes naturally produced by the body. Melatonin controls mitochondrial autophagy.

 

[keenly]

I am exactly the same only I take a quarter of clonazapn not Xanax. My problem is definitely my overactive brain, it just doesn't want to shut off and recently my sleep has been getting worse and worse, often not getting off to sleep till 2 am having finally given in and taken the quarter tab just before 1 am. I also take 25 mg Lyrica before I go to bed sometimes with GABA but often these don't work. I am going to have to try and take the Lyrica around 10 pm I think to see if that works better so I go to bed feeling sleepy.

Insomnia is a huge mental problem when one persistently tells oneself how important lots of sleep is and this is definitely the narrative these days. It adds hugely to the problem I find.

However I definitely can do so much more in the mornings when I have slept at least 6 hours but recently am struggling to get that amount of sleep. I think it must be an age thing because I am 73 in March and I have read that we don't make as much Melatonin as we age. However even 1/2 mg Melatonin can make me extremely dizzy which causes huge anxiety with no chance of sleeping! There was one article I found that Melatonin was counter indicated in elderly subjects with orthostatic intolerance which was interesting.

I do have combinations of "bad" SNPS to do with how the brain functions so maybe that is also playing a big part.

Pam

We make melatonin via UV light. See the sun rise every morning, then the fist UVA light in the AM. Block all green and blue at night.

 

[keenly]

For the last 14months I have been on nytol or sominex every night.
Prior to this I never used any sleep drugs. After using amitryptyline for nerve pain in my heels I have not been able to sleep without any meds. During this time I have been wobbly, even when sitting. I have tried to ween myself off the meds, and the last 2 nights I have taken only melatonin, 5HTP and l trytophan, and the balance issues have become MUCH worse. I am struggling right now, even sat down. I feel as though I am about to fall over.

I really need to speak to a consultant who knows about chemicals in the brain and how they effect balance.

Anyone else have balance issues with long term use of sleep meds?

 

[Wishful]

Okay, here's an unexpected sleep improver, at least it works for me: minimizing proline in my diet. I had been waking up approximately every 90 minutes for I think several years. Recently I thought that arm exercises were helping reduce those wakings, but instead it turned out to be the result of diet change. Proline makes my ME symptoms worse, and when I reduced that, I started sleeping longer between wakings. By keeping proline intake below 1400 mg, I tend to wake every 1.5 to 2 hrs. By really minimizing proline, I managed a whole 5 hrs without waking. I think that's the first time I've slept that long in years.

This may be a unique-to-me problem with proline. However, it's not easy to avoid proline, so it's possible that other people have the same problem, but never notice a reduction because they rarely have a low-proline day. It's not just in what we consider high-protein foods such as meat and nuts/seeds; wheat is particularly high in proline. I think it's only a slim chance that it will help anyone else, but it's a simple and safe experiment to try.

 

[sb4]

@Wishful How did you narrow it down to proline?

 

[lenora]

Hello All....Yes, I absolutely have to have a feeling of freedom at night insofar as being tucked in is concerned. Like yours, my husband is just the opposite...he loves to feel all tucked in and cozy. I'll tent the sheets, blankets over my feet in very cold weather, but still have to know they're free. Been like that since childhood.

After spending almost 5 mos. without any sleep to brag about (OK, an hr. or there) I finally overcame what was bothering me and seem to be doing much better (in that dept.). I can't say that I feel more rested or the like, but it has to be doing my body some good. Right? Melatonin has never worked for me, but removal of BP meds during the night, made a huge difference. I'm also on Keppra, so suspect that's helping with sleep.

I've had sleep problem as long as I've had spinal cord and brain problems....way over 35 yrs. now. I almost think the two go hand in hand, and anesthetics will really make it worse. The answers: I don't have any but I sure don't blame people for trying whatever they can.

Sleeping pills will help once every 2 mos. or so if things are bad. Mind you, only one/time and if I take them them for more than 2 or 3 nights straight, I can count on 2 hrs. at most...and then nothing. Right now, I'm enjoying this "gift" for whatever reason. It has taken long enough to land in my lap.

Yes, nytol or sominex would affect balance. Still, if it helps you, then I would just purchase (at Walmart) a walker with wheels to help guide you if you're having trouble. Wishing everyone well. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Wishful]

@Wishful How did you narrow it down to proline?

Perseverance!

I knew I reacted to meat and peanuts and soybutter, but that didn't rule out vitamins or other possibilities. Then I remembered that I had some gelatin. That gave me very severe symptoms, and gelatin is pretty much pure amino acids. Furthermore, three of them--glycine, alanine, and proline--are 15-20x higher than in peanut butter, so those were my main suspects. Then, I figured out (roughly) what my threshold was: 4 slices of bacon was too much (1280 mg proline). That part was complicated by having bacon or other foods with bread. Wheat turned out to be very high in proline. With wheat out of the way, figuring out proline levels was easier. I then tried various foods in different amounts, and the severity of symptoms correlated with proline levels--and didn't correlate with the other amino acids.

This online tool was really useful: https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator


Avoiding all protein was also making me feel worse, so I'm still trying to figure out an optimum amount of daily protein. I also need to figure out how fast proline gets used up. I tried some extra protein last night, and woke up feeling not too bad, but after some bacon, I started feeling much worse, so I think my proline level from the previous night was still elevated, and the bacon pushed me over my threshold. Tricky.

I assume that proline is causing problems with my mitochondria, but I haven't come up with a way to test that.

I must have had this sensitivity to proline for at least several years, but without an 'avoid all amino acids' diet, I wasn't able to identify a cause of the symptoms. I think an occasional dramatic nutrient-free diet is a good idea for people with chronic diseases. A 'single food family at a time' trial might be useful too: eat only wheat, or rice, or apples or whatever for at least a few days, so see if any symptoms change.

 

[Mary]

I've rediscovered the Chinese herbal combo Shui De An. It's quite effective. My sister gave me some several years ago and I think I took it for a month or 2, I really can't remember, but I recently found an unopened bottle in my cupboard and am retrying it - and it's great! It doesn't leave me sedated or drugged or anything like that. I already take a lot of supplements for sleep and do breathing exercises which help, but I still often have trouble going back to sleep in the middle of the night, and I am going back to sleep much quicker with this product.

I've been taking it for about 9 or 10 days now, one capsule before bed and one middle of the night. Here's where I've just ordered some more - Shui De An Capsules | Healthy Sleep for disturbed shen (modernherbshop.com)

This appears to be a reputable website (unfortunately am unable to get more from my sister right now) - and they shipped the same day I ordered it: This bottle has 30 capsules for $6.59, so will last 2 weeks, taking 2 a night. I just saw a similar product on Amazon which only has 12 capsules, for $10.71. Plus I don't trust Amazon for things like this unless I'm familiar with the seller.

 

[lenora]

Thanks, @Mary, for the sleep tip. As I sit here at almost 2:45 a.m. and without sleep for a few nights prior, I was thinking of something I could take that doesn't have me wide awake again at 3:00 a.m. One gets tired (pun definitely intended) of this nonsense.

I haven't tried this herbal combo before, so it will be worthwhile to give it a trial. I can only take something for about 2 nights anyway before the sleep aid wears off....and I've noticed this happens with quite a few of us. I've had this sleep problem for about 40 years now. I can't fall asleep during the day for the most part and generally find it harder to function as I get older.

Anyone else with sleep complaints...and what type are they? Just interesting to know how many of us are affected.

No, I definitely wouldn't buy vitamins, supplements or herbs from Amazon and, unfortunately, a lot of other products also. I've been burned a few times and I know others who feel the same way. Unfortunately, fraudulent labels and bottles are frequently used. I noticed this a few years ago, and the company did absolutely nothing at a time when it could have been curbed (granted, not easily).

I will say Amazon is good about free returns and credits....it's done immediately. Still, it takes time to contact and complain about the same problem over and over. I've had problems with make-up products, sunscreens (a big problem with the ones recommended by dermatologists...I only buy them at the office now or directly from the manufacturer). Still, we use Amazon a lot, but not for certain things. Hope everyone gets some sleep. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Wayne]

I've been taking it for about 9 or 10 days now, one capsule before bed and one middle of the night. Here's where I've just ordered some more - Shui De An Capsules | Healthy Sleep for disturbed shen (modernherbshop.com)

Hi @Mary -- I ordered some the day I saw your testimonial. Took one capsule last night, and my sleep was noticeably improved! Thanks for the suggestion! -- I think I'll try two tonight; maybe I'll sleep for a couple days and start making up for years of lost sleep???