• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

What has helped you with sleep/insomnia - post links

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,749
Location
Alberta
Another update on my testing of Evening Primrose Oil: the Walmart brand does work. What was causing my insomnia was BBQ sauce (just a splurt on dinner). When I quit that, the oil worked again. I'll have to experiment more to figure out whether it's the sugar in the BBQ sauce or something else.

Be warned: even small amounts of something you eat even in small amounts might cause insomnia. For me, so does driving, socializing, and certain types of cerebral activities after 2 PM. Getting good sleep sure is tricky. :cautious:
 

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
My 3rd and final RE-post of this awesome tip!

So yea, I've gone through the exact same thing. Waking middle of night, can't fall back asleep. And I am really really proud of this idea, because it really works.

When trying to go back to sleep, I've been too wired. So I shut my eyes, get comfortable, and picture in my mind graphics like below. I picture a guy sleeping in bed, with little ZZZzzzz's floating above. And as long as I stay focused on that type of cartoony sleeping guy imagery, I start feeling tired, like legit tired, as if I'd taken another melatonin. Serious it worx! As if that image in my brain makes it shift back to parasympathetic instead of sympathetic activity. It's crazy!

Seriously, try it, and tell me how it goes.

1596100484187-png.38542




1596100492762-png.38543




1596100499685-png.38544
 
Messages
54
Insomnia ( both onset and maintenance) has been my biggest CFS struggle for the past few years. It can take me a good 2-3 hours to get to sleep and I then wake 4-7 times each night. I think it's connected to my hypersensitivity as it feels as though everything I try to make my sleep better ends up making it worse!

Things which have helped that I take every day:
Diphenhydramine (50mg)
Time-release Melatonin (10mg) with B6 (10mg) and Calcium (23mg)
Phosphatidyl Serine (100mg)
Vitamin D (2000iu) - hasn't improved the onset or maintenance insomnia but increased REM and Deep Sleep by a good 8-10% ea on my Fitbit.
Traditional Chinese Medicine - Liu Wei Di Huang for 'Yin Deficiency'

I also take Zopiclone (3.75mg) as and when needed.

In the past I've also found that Progestogen-Only methods of contraception and Natural Progesterone Cream have dramatically improved my sleep.

Things that didn't make a difference:
Cutting out dairy, alcohol and caffeine

Things that made it worse:
Iron, Magnesium, Folic Acid/Folate, B Vitamin Complex, B12, Inositol, L-theanine, Iodine, 5HTP, Biotin, Evening Primrose Oil, Omega 3/ Fish Oils, Zinc, Vitamin C, Multivitamins, Maca, Turmeric, Trazodone, Candex SIBO, Eating too many seeds e.g. pumpkin, sunflower and flax seed.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
I've cut out the zopiclone, which I'm addicted to in all honesty, and replaced it with this typical melatonine based supplement (melatonine, magnesium, zinc, vit B6 and B12). I don't sleep at like 6am anymore, as I do when w/o Zopiclone, and can keep it to around 3am with this new product... however the melatonine seems to knock me out a bit the next day, I haven't felt a refreshing sleep effect in a longggggggg time.
Anyone managed to break that stretch of unrefreshing sleep with a method or supplement ?
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,749
Location
Alberta
however the melatonine seems to knock me out a bit the next day,

If serious insomnia strikes before 2:30 AM, I might take melatonin or 5-HTP and fall asleep. If it's later than that, I don't bother, because the grogginess from the melatonin the next day is worse than the lack of sleep. :(
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hello Everyone....My take on this over 35 yrs. isn't going to be something I wish upon any of you, but for some of us it's our lives.

I had fallen into a pattern of sleeping from 4:00 a.m. until 9:00 - 9:30 a.m. So, we're talking 5 hrs. per day...at most. This would last for 3 days/nights and then I would be wide awake for 4 days....I mean really awake and if I could be moving the things I could accomplish! So, 3 days with sleep, albeit no 8 hrs. and then 4 without anything. But I was limping along and I can't say I was a witch and abusive to others, including my own family. I was doing just fine given what I have to deal with.

I was then hospitalized back to back in January and then again in March (elsewhere I've written April; my mistake). I was naturally unconscious both times the last time being 2 days. I have no memory whatsoever of anything that occurred in that time...thank goodness I was told or I would seriously be doubting my mental capacities. Actually I've been hospitalized 8 times in the past 14 mos. (now...out for 3 mos. or a bit more). Each time has been a different reason, all very serious. It's as if my body is simply falling apart and there's nothing I can do to help it.

OK....In January after much time and many different tests, including ones some doctors would prefer not to b/c of how hard they are for the patient. At that time, it was found that I was suffering severe seizures caused by something called Autoimmune Encephalitis, a fairly new diagnosis, and the seizures caused me to fall, break my wrist. right to the events in January and then in March - as much as I fought to ignore all the symptoms (you know how it is to accurately describe your conditions and causes!). I am finally working towards breaking my insomnia, the longest it has ever lasted: I had 5 hrs. sleep last night; wonderful for me, tonight is restless, although I'm sitting here typing with my eyes closed out of exhaustion. I seem to naturally fall asleep between the time of 4:00 a.m. to about 9:30 or 10:00 a.m. That will often happen, if I'm left to it.

I had seizures which were causing brain damage by the time they were found out, followed by not being able to shake a cough and plenty of other signals that I never think of being significant .I was put on steroids both times (and i do horribly on them), many new meds, including additional ones given by IV, and 2 anesthetics so they could track down what was occurring. Here I had congestive heart failure and was given 2 more stents, meaning that I have 5 in total, hopelessly high familial cholesterol, BP that has gone from ultra-low to a combo of high to low (during and after menopause which began at 42 in my case), even though I'm fairly petite and about 15 lbs. underweigh at that time. Even though our r diet is a good one...my genes are not.

OK, I've been dealing with this insomnia for 35 yrs. now. I have 3 different neurological conditions and ME was the 4th diagnosis. Who knows what causes what. I was also found, in the very beginning, to have a pituitary tumor, controlled by medication and now gone. I won't say that it has been an easy road, but I've accepted everything, even congestive heart failure. I am 73 and am able to do whatever I can/want during the day, have a wonderful husband and children (now 49 and 46), so I really have no complaints, thankfully.

I know it's harder when you're young. I'm quite aware of that and it's one of the reasons we have to find not a cure (b/c I think the causes are very diverse) but help to deal with our symptoms. We've made a LOT of progress since the days my illnesses began. Trust me, it may not seem it, but we have. But too many lives are stopped at too many young ages and too many are not given a chance. This is because of research (younger and younger people are found to have this...I was once considered among the youngest), yet we have nothing in the way of a cure to offer them. Please accept what medicine has available for you. Use something for anxiety or get it under control yourself, learn meditation and breathing techniques, try to meet people who also have the illness (if you can), it will take time....but learn to accept your life & I know how hard it is, but once you do, it's an incredibly free feeling.

Be happy for family and friends who marry and have children...why? B/c they are your allies and can bring much to your life. Look at their children and treat them with respect and kindness, you'll have people who admire and adore you. Valuable allies, indeed, in the years to come. And do as much for yourself as you possibly can. Again, I know what it's like to be held in our bed of pain, expecting the worst but find solace and peace where you can. Try to at least walk around the house, join the world as much as possible, and have perhaps the most important thing of all....HOPE. There are now meds that we never had: gabapentin to stop the signals that send pain down the spinal cord to the nerves....this was our first breakthrough drug and helps immensely. I now take lyrica, the first child of gaba, if your neurologist wants you to go on an anti-depressant, do it...most doctors are kind and knowledgeable, antidepressants are able to help with pain, also, there are now special creams made at compound pharmacies that help immensely with remaining pain....ingredients are specified and change frequently as more and better ointments are discovered. These go through the skin and aren't absorbed by the organs and, I'm sure there are many more that I have either forgotten about and/or have been discovered in the past few years. Meds are being discovered with great frequency; use the tools available. Yes, it may take 6 wks. to adjust, but do you have anything else to do? If you're allergic to them immediately stop, but give things a good try. for some it can take a very long time as the body adjusts. I used vitamins/supplements for many years. Now I'm down to about 2-3 times/wk. I've learned it's important to kep the body in balance....so important. If you can't bear the side-effects of new drugs, talk to your doctor about Ian alternative.

I want to finish up with sleep: For years my Dr. tried every sleeping med available, and there are many...one night of help, at most. I keep myself quite busy during the hours I'm wide awake...and no longer get upset about any of it. If I don't sleep; I don't, and I can assure you that it's not going to kill you. I do a lot of computer work, will fall asleep and wake up to an almost ruined page, I do something like this as a break, I write letters and stay in touch with old friends who go back to my earliest days. I'm a book lover and always, eternally have something going. Old friends knew me and my family at a different time in our lives. Some come to visit me, all have problems now. We've experienced life and have seen its warts.

My biological family is now almost gone...I've lived much longer than I ever suspected and you know, life becomes different but still fulfilling if we do something to help others. There are many opportunities in many organizations. You're a highly computer literate generation, don't waste your talents and time. True, you may tire easily, but start it again tomorrow. Little by little we make progress and there will always be setbacks. But that's all they are, setbacks. For a couple of days, week or even weeks going into more than a mo. I know, I was once in bed for a year at a time, still am depending upon what occurs, but I'm always hopeful that I'll spend time, lots of it on my favorite place on earth, my back porch. It's freedom and I crave it. Find something like it in your life....reconnect with nature in some ways. Put a bird feeder outside your window for the days when you are bedridden. These are the things (and many more) that got me through the 'dark night(s) of the soul.' Keep seeing family, friends and neighbors who are invited for a cup of coffee. If you're stronger, visit with them sitting up in a chair. If you're exhausted, the cup of coffee only lasts so long. Laugh with them and ask them to tell you something funny that occurred, read about those who are worse off than you are....accept.

So, I finally slept for about 4 hours last night...it is starting to break my 19 day sleepless route. I may or may not get some sleep tonight, I'm on a lot of new meds and they may have a role in this....time will tell. And if it turns out to be permanent, I'll gnash my teeth, be depressed for a certain time, go within myself remember that I have my family and I'll once again emerge. I'm old now; I've learned. May I wish you better health and some restorative sleep. Yours Lenora.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
If serious insomnia strikes before 2:30 AM, I might take melatonin or 5-HTP and fall asleep. If it's later than that, I don't bother, because the grogginess from the melatonin the next day is worse than the lack of sleep. :(
oh so you have this as well ? The "melatonin hangover". Although it's got a designated term, and therefor must be a relatively common occurrence, I found most ppl handle melatonin perfectly well. It's the lesser evil right now, between that and sleeping at 6am ...
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,749
Location
Alberta
I hadn't encountered the term "melatonin hangover" before, but yes, I get it. I just read a suggestion that it should be taken around 7 PM. Taking it then will help me fall asleep initially (if I've done something that I expect will cause insomnia), but I'll wake up sometime in the wee hours and be unable to sleep anymore.

Has anyone here found 5-HTP to improve sleep without the melatonin hangover effect? I should try that. Hmmm, the bottle of 5-HTP I have still has a few tablets left. Expires MAR 2007. Hmmmm. :rolleyes:
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Has anyone here found 5-HTP to improve sleep without the melatonin hangover effect?

I take 50 mg 5-htp, .62 mg melatonin and 500 mg holy basil about 30 minutes before bedtime and am almost always asleep within 10-15 minutes.

I wake up around 7:00 am almost every morning and take about 20 mg more of 5-htp. Which allows me to get back to sleep within 20-30 minutes and stay asleep until about 9:00 am. Then I'm up for the day.

I don't get any kind of a hangover from the 5-htp or the melatonin. I might get some kind of a hungover feeling if I took a higher dose of melatonin but at .62 mg it's not a problem.
 
Messages
54
I hope you're aware that melatonin can be habit-forming. You can become dependent on it for sleep. I only take it when I've had a really obvious insomnia trigger.

Yeah I'm aware, but thanks for the reminder. My insomnia has been severe almost every night for the past 3 years and it has helped me to somehow still function throughout the day. I don't know what I would've done without it. What's more, it feels like the lesser of a lot of evils, e.g. Zopiclone leaves me feeling super groggy the next day and I really don't want to get hooked on that. Once I get my sleep under control then I'll definitely try and taper off my sleep aids, but right now I'm nowhere close to that stage unfortunately.
 
Messages
92
Location
New Mexico
Sleep is my CFS silver bullet cure most days to feeling somewhat normal, and yet it's my biggest challenge and gets worse the older I get. My nightly regime is:

-Phosphotydle Serine
-5 mg melatonin (added just this year due to severe stresses)
-Unisom
*if I have something important that I need to be 'on' for or feel decent (flying, doc appts, work projects) I almost always have to take a Xanax. It's the only thing that will shut off my brain which gets over-excited with anxiety at the mere thought that I MUST be well-rested for the next day. :xeyes:
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,497
Location
Great Lakes
Knudsen's Just Black Cherry juice.

It doesn't always work and I have to restrict it to drinking just a small amount or I wake up groggy the next day.

They say cherry juice is a source of natural melatonin so maybe that's why it helps me. I suppose the tart cherry would work too but I just don't like the taste.

Also since I have been working at reducing some suspected infections, I have been sleeping better as well.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,384
Location
Southern California
Sodium butyrate is, I think, helping me hugely with sleep at the moment.
I wonder why this helps - I did see something that said it had anti-inflammatory properties, maybe that's it?

I bought a weighted blanket, that's my next experiment! But have to get up the energy to use it! :sluggish::lol: (change my sheets etc.)
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,308
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Sodium butyrate is, I think, helping me hugely with sleep at the moment.

Hi @Sarah94 -- I made the following post back in 2016...

I just added butter to my diet (and cut way, way down on sugar and carbs) last week and almost cannot believe how much better I've been doing.​
Congratulations on your improvements from eating butter (butyrate). I discovered this past year that eating butter at night an hour or two before bedtime consistently (and significantly) improved my sleep. I attributed it primarily to the butyrate as well. My favorite "bedtime snack" is a small portion of yam with a couple pats of butter.​