Vitamin D levels not rising after high dose, why?

[linusbert]

It has been long known that if a person has a shortage of Vitamin D the parathyroid gland will cause your bones to dissolve a bit looking for it.

the problems started when i took the vitamin D.

 

[kangaSue]

i wonder , my bones a hurting a bit and making cracking sounds on places which were hurt in the long past.
its related to the vitamin D, started with it. whats going on?

I had Vit D deficiency along with osteoporosis and had to get my vit D level up before I could have Aclasta infusions for the osteoporosis, but despite having 600,000 iu megadose injections of vit D (I don't tolerate it orally), my level would only increase by a few points each time. I don't know if it was a coincidence but the vit D levels only started coming up after I started supplementing with taurine, and then a couple of months later started getting 100,000 iu vit D injections every 2 months.
I also have gastroparesis where it's common to have a taurine deficiency as well though, but the only association evidence I could find as way of explanation for my outcome was a paper linking osteoporosis with a taurine deficiency and impaired vit D absorption;
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34024513/

 

[NilaJones]

When my vit D was super low, I had the same problem you do, not absorbing supplements well

What worked for me was, in addition to the supplements, getting a special light bulb that emits the UV wavelengths we need to create vitamin d (but not the ones that cause skin cancer)

These bulbs are made for pet lizards, and need to be used close to bare skin. They are fluorescent and don't get hot, so I used mine under the blankets in bed, moving it to various parts of my body, for 2 hours morning and night

This worked for me. I feel much better with higher vit D levels

 

[linusbert]

When my vit D was super low, I had the same problem you do, not absorbing supplements well

What worked for me was, in addition to the supplements, getting a special light bulb that emits the UV wavelengths we need to create vitamin d (but not the ones that cause skin cancer)

These bulbs are made for pet lizards, and need to be used close to bare skin. They are fluorescent and don't get hot, so I used mine under the blankets in bed, moving it to various parts of my body, for 2 hours morning and night

This worked for me. I feel much better with higher vit D levels

so how much did you raise your level:

 

[Judee]

Hey, @linusbert, did you see this thread about resistant starch and vitamin D? https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/vitamin-d-and-butyrate-or-resistant-potato-starch.86658/

Edit: "Dietary resistant starch prevents urinary excretion of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol and vitamin D-binding protein in type 1 diabetic rats..."

 

[linusbert]

Hey, @linusbert, did you see this thread about resistant starch and vitamin D? https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/vitamin-d-and-butyrate-or-resistant-potato-starch.86658/

Edit: "Dietary resistant starch prevents urinary excretion of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol and vitamin D-binding protein in type 1 diabetic rats..."

someone mentioned there that without taking Taurine he couldnt get vitamin D up.
thats interesting.

though i have strong effects when taking taurine, its like taking calcium itself which give me muscle pain and cramping.

 

[CSMLSM]

i had 6 month ago a real deficiency, vitamin D was 4ng/ml.
calcium blood levels started to go low, magnesium and vitamin c were not tolerated anymore.

now i took over the last 4-5 month roughly 600.000 ie in weekly dosages of 35000 iu.
and it is now at ~10ng/ml . and they even measured 1 day after i took my 35k... so it might be even lower maybe?
but how is this possible, i am a beefy boi with 1,80cm (5"10) 130kg (286pounds) so there is that... but a increase by just 5?? i would have expected to be at least at 20-30ng/ml levels.

though it had positive effects, calcium went back up again to good blood levels. also magnesium and phosphat looks ok'ish. potassium isnt that bad either (though they took the sample 2h after i ate a banana).
also vitamin C and magnesium is now much better tolerated again.

so how to get this D up?


current blood work:
View attachment 50482View attachment 50483

Hi, this might be why you are having these issues.

Bile is required to absorb fat soluble vitamins such as vitamin D.

You may be experiencing cholestasis (lack of bile flow/production).

This would prevent the proper absorption of vitamin D.

It can also cause vitamin B12 deficiency as this vitamin is recycled via biles enterohepatic circulation which is prevented by cholestasis.

Consider having a vitamin B12 test before starting supplementation with B12 as this will help indicate cholestasis could be the issue.

Taking TUDCA and ox bile supplements can help with this issue with cholestasis.

 

[linusbert]

Taking TUDCA and ox bile supplements can help with this issue with cholestasis.

thanks will try it. this is a area i didnt investigate into yet and didnt also try, so could be promising.

i also have a little gall bladder polyp. i dont know how much my fat digestion is impaired, sometimes i get problems (diarrhea), but interestingly if i eat a fatty piece of meat, i usually do not get problems.

one of the product reviews is writing regarding TUDCA:

This product interferes with some really serious chemical processes in the body. And no doctor in the world is cleverer than your health system working in their entirety. You must not take this unless you know exactly what you are doing.

what does he men?

 

[GhostGum]

Just an obvious question here but have you tried just using the sun instead? I had a bad summer myself here in southern hemisphere but still managed enough exposure (it was quite minimal but consistent) to have my levels around 75ng/ml mid Autumn still, I am quite south as well so the ability to produce vit D diminishes quickly here in Autumn.

I am lucky to have a great backyard I can chill out in and has a lot of sun most of the day during summer. Building light/sun tolerance over the years and being able to enjoy a bit of bathing and resting out in nature or in parks and such is one of my great pleasures these days, it also allowed me to manage travelling over the years and finally getting back out into the world.

 

[linusbert]

Just an obvious question here but have you tried just using the sun instead?

what do you mean "sun"?

 

[GhostGum]

what do you mean "sun"?

As in the interaction of UVB light frequency from the sun with your body and biology to produce vitamin d and maybe arguably the most ideal way to get it, because supplementation is obviously not working for some reason. There is going to be a host of other benefits from natural light as well if you can tolerate it and can add it as part of your lifestyle, even recently learnt most melatonin is produced at a cellular level as an interaction with near infrared radiation/light. Of course where you live, time and year and day are going to be factors in getting UVB.

I am hating winter here already and was thinking about how I am going to get to far northern Australia over the next couple of months, in part to keep my levels up lol

 

[CSMLSM]

thanks will try it. this is a area i didnt investigate into yet and didnt also try, so could be promising.

i also have a little gall bladder polyp. i dont know how much my fat digestion is impaired, sometimes i get problems (diarrhea), but interestingly if i eat a fatty piece of meat, i usually do not get problems.

one of the product reviews is writing regarding TUDCA:

what does he men?

TUDCA is a bile acid that our body already makes in small amounts.

I do not know what he means, maybe he is talking nonsense? it is a review of a product by a random person on the internet.

With anything you intend to take, research yourself first is standard good practice.

 

[linusbert]

With anything you intend to take, research yourself first is standard good practice.

yes true, problem is, internet is a bad quality fragmented place to find information.
i tend to give those reviews more credibility than websites.
medical studies can imho be neglected, they ignore side effects completely.

 

[CSMLSM]

I do not agree.

It is a great place to find information if you look in the right places and avoid people just spouting opinions not based on facts.

 

[linusbert]

I do not agree.

It is a great place to find information if you look in the right places and avoid people just spouting opinions not based on facts.

what facts? what authority? what study to trust on complete contradicting results? how do you know that the one comment someone made isnt made from based personal experience.
and then are all those articles which are just copied by each other, partly even same wording.

internet is the worst place to get any information. you need to triple, quattro, ultra check every piece of information. and then we are in this disease which isnt even discovered yet, this is nt established medicine, we are talking research with very slim study count.

the state of cfs internet research is , that you can look for any theory or annecdote you want, there is nothing conclussive. everything needs to be trialed and errored.

and its exhaustive, it costs time, it costs money, it costs energy... and somehow i do not have any of those... well time is there, but actually good time is rare.


i really envy my girl when she studies medicine. it was all so simple, she just bought some fat expensive books from special medical press for a few hundred bucks each book. and then can just read and extract information. you just assume everything is correct and studies are linked.
THIS is quality information!

 

[hapl808]

you just assume everything is correct and studies are linked.

Yep, medicine is pretty easy when you just assume everything is correct. Sadly, that's how we end up with doctors explaining to us that we're not experiencing what we're experiencing because their $200 book said so.

 

[linusbert]

Yep, medicine is pretty easy when you just assume everything is correct. Sadly, that's how we end up with doctors explaining to us that we're not experiencing what we're experiencing because their $200 book said so.

no thats not correct. the medicine literature is completely different. the problem is that doctors do not follow the literature and just do what they want.
none of all docs i was did follow protocol. even the things they should check they didnt. according to literature they should have asked certain questions about family and symptoms etc. they didnt.
also for example, medical literature says that psychosomatic disease are exclusion diagnosis, means everything must have be excluded and checked. in my case and many others, they didnt check anything at all and gave psycho diagnosis in the door frame by just looking.

and thats the actual sad part for us, they cannot handle this weird disease because it doesnt exist yet, but they should have checked many of the existing diseases... and some would have actually had a known disease where there is treatment for.
but they didnt do it. so is it CFS or some other clinical actually treatable disease... most of us will never know.

 

[linusbert]

TUDCA is a bile acid that our body already makes in small amounts.

I do not know what he means, maybe he is talking nonsense? it is a review of a product by a random person on the internet.

With anything you intend to take, research yourself first is standard good practice.

i took my first TUDCA dose today after lunch.
it immediately felt like i had a stone in my stomach. i felt awful for 3 hours.
how can that be? i thought TUDCA is part of a acid? i would expect that kind of trouble after taking bile salts which would neutralize stomach acid, but tudca shouldnt? or does it?

 

[CSMLSM]

@linusbert
I tend to take my TUDCA on an empty stomach without a meal as this is thought to help the cholestasis better this way.

People take ox bile with a meal with digestive enzymes if you have gallbladder problems or pancreatic insufficiency which I think I do, so I do take ox bile and digestive enzymes with meals as this helps with the cholestasis increasing the amount of bile I have and helps with the lack of pancreatic enzymes.

I also take apple cider vinegar before meals to help activate some of the enzymes better and improve stomach acid level to help digest food.

TUDCA is an acid that is conjugated with taurine.
It starts out as UDCA, which is an acid and the addition of taurine makes it a salt I believe.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

the problem is that doctors do not follow the literature and just do what they want.

from my experience, I would generally agree.

there is nothing thorough going on at most doctor visits. I am aware that I don' t see a pushy, highly aggressive doctor, who wants all these tests and things done. And I can rarely get to specialist appointments, so much for that.

But I mean, even the criteria we discuss around here. Who uses these criteria? Nobody I have ever met.