Van der Meer strikes again

[fred]

I think this ^ belongs to Dr. van der Meer..

Shame it's not been fired.

 

[JillBohr]

Is it possible to e-mail this newspaper and ask them to interview the WPI and let them contradict Van der Meer's words?

And Fred - Please, use it as much as you'd like :Retro smile:

Heck, we can all email the newspaper. I would be even more surprised if the journalist did not know English.

 

[omerbasket]

I just emailed them - I suggest you fellows would do the same if you can.

 

[ixchelkali]

He certainly is mud-slinging, isn't he? Too bad that when he throws mud, we patients all get spattered with it. Unfortunately, if you keep repeating a lie often enough and loud enough, some people will believe it (as many politicians have discovered). Especially if it confirms what they want to believe.

There are people determined to undermine this research with a smear campaign. I hope it doesn't stop the funding. I hope good scientists (besides the WPI) will go the distance to determine the truth.

I don't think I like that man.

 

[Rivotril]

I will also mail them...
Just for the info about "De Gelderlander" : (the newspaper in case).. Gelderland is a "state" in the Netherlands, and Nijmegen one of the main cities in that "state". So it's, more or less, that the paper and Van der Meer are on good terms, they are the major newspaper in the erea where his scientific centre is settled.. and now I have the impression he uses it for his "propaganda"
Because of this, I think they will be very careful in critisism to his "work".
Sounds a bit like censured shit from iraq like I tell it now, hope it's not that bad

Maybe it's also a good idea to send the translated (English) version of the article to WPI? So that they know what's going on

 

[parvofighter]

It's all good

Hi folks,

Here is a link where you can add comments in English: http://www.gelderlander.nl/voorpagi...treden-vermoeidheidstest.ece?start=2&sort=asc

The more vocal and public Van der Meer is, the better.... this makes it all the easier to illuminate what we have been up against. Mark my words, as soon as the European blood services start banning blood from ME/CFS patients, VDM will start looking ridiculous. And once those positive studies come in, and (as per Ruscetti's prediction) the issue of XMRV in ME/CFS patients is settled, we can go for the jugular. Probably, we won't need to, because there will be a massive distancing by government big-wigs from the psycholobby. Rats leaving a sinking ship.

I'm not at all surprised to hear this blustering from the psycholobby. Amp it up guys - we're hanging on your every word... and copying it. BTW... see you in court.:Retro smile:

 

[Jerry S]

Yay, Parvo! I like your attitude!

 

[Frickly]

I agree Parvo, they are on a slippery slope and not going to be able to hold on much longer. This is getting interesting.

Hi folks,

Here is a link where you can add comments in English: http://www.gelderlander.nl/voorpagi...treden-vermoeidheidstest.ece?start=2&sort=asc

The more vocal and public Van der Meer is, the better.... this makes it all the easier to illuminate what we have been up against. Mark my words, as soon as the European blood services start banning blood from ME/CFS patients, VDM will start looking ridiculous. And once those positive studies come in, and (as per Ruscetti's prediction) the issue of XMRV in ME/CFS patients is settled, we can go for the jugular. Probably, we won't need to, because there will be a massive distancing by government big-wigs from the psycholobby. Rats leaving a sinking ship.

I'm not at all surprised to hear this blustering from the psycholobby. Amp it up guys - we're hanging on your every word... and copying it. BTW... see you in court.:Retro smile:

 

[JillBohr]

When posting a comment online, does the comment appear automatically? I just posted one and it is not showing up.

 

[Frickly]

They have been having forum issues today. One time I posted something and it took 2 hours for it to show up. If this is the case, If you try and post the same message again it should tell you if you have another post pending.

Jill

 

[anciendaze]

When? How many experiments?

When posting a comment online, does the comment appear automatically? I just posted one and it is not showing up.

It probably has to be viewed by someone to make sure it won't get them in legal trouble. Everyone running a site has to be cautious these days -- for reasons that have nothing to do with controversy over CFS.
-----
Does anyone know the date of the interview which led to that piece? If it wasn't substantially delayed, it would seem van der Meer is way out of touch. That is decidedly careless in a changing situation, which supports parvofighter's observation.

Second question: In re-evaluating some facts in light of Dr. Mikovits letter, I wondered how many control samples were involved. She says one was included with each experiment, but I'm not sure what constitutes an experiment. If each sample were paired with a control, the chance of all contaminated samples not being controls would make the contamination hypothesis unlikely even with seven samples. If there were only one added to a run of seven, it wouldn't be enough to say very much.

Scale the numbers up to 2/3 of the samples in the Science paper, which were certainly done in many separate experiments, and the hypothesis looks absurd. Rough and sloppy estimate: If the contamination rate is 2/3, the chance of having only a single uncontaminated negative control is only 1/3. With two controls, it is 1/9. With n controls it is 1/3^n. If you were to throw out every run with a contaminated negative control, and keep running tests until you get positive responses, you could get whatever results you like. This is approximately what the "whispered" accusations suggest. Thus, the outrage.

Making some plausible assumptions about those controls, it looks to me like nobody analyzed the contamination argument at all. For people running laboratories, tracing contamination is a constant battle. If you assume contamination, and try to find the source, you might end up looking in Nijmegen.

 

[usedtobeperkytina]

The taller they are, the harder they fall.

Or as the Apostle Paul put it: "Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall."

Tina

 

[Alexia]

When posting a comment online, does the comment appear automatically? I just posted one and it is not showing up.

They read the comments first, normally it will appear after 24 hours.

 

[parvofighter]

You made the Dutch Media!

aw bless his little cotton socks :Sign Good one:

And bless your little cotton socks too pollycbr125 and Rivotril (in a good way). Your post, pic, and thread made the Dutch media here:http://translate.google.ca/translat...hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&tbo=p&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ln !

Visitors: to say that ME/CFS patients are furious is a gentle understatement. Imagine if you had a devastating neuro-immune condition that more and more looks like a retroviral infection - like AIDS. Imagine that - as a result of this disease - you lost your loved ones, your career, your active hobbies, your quality of life. Now imagine that you were offered psychotherapy to change your "false illness beliefs" - instead of legitimate biomedical diagnosis and treatment. That is what psycho charlatans have been doing for decades - calling us malingerers, while lining their pockets and their curriculum vitae with ego boosts - at the expense of us patients, our loved ones, and your national economies.

And now that the ship is sinking after hitting a potentially cancer-causing retrovirus, van der Meer is "outraged" that we want redress. As I said in an earlier post, "See you in court". The $hit hasn't even BEGUN to hit the proverbial fan.

Who are you going to trust: the psycholobby which has everything to lose (prestige, status, lucrative contracts, and image-boosting market size of patients? Or blood services around the world, which are doing the only sensible thing possible - in the face of possible retroviral contamination of their blood supply - shutting down donations by patients with ME/CFS. Which country do you want to be in for your next car accident requiring a blood transfusion: Canada, New Zealand, and/or Australia - which are at the vanguard of protecting their blood supply? Or the Netherlands or UK especially, where Stone-Age psychiatric practices have a stranglehold on biomedical progress - and where the blood may be contaminated by the next AIDS virus? Take your pick.

Keep in mind too that if the virus is found in as many as 4% of healthy controls, YOU could be the next ME/CFS patient... waiting to lose everything you hold dear - as the medical establishment ridicules you over the course of not just years, but decades, for being a so-called malingerer. It's time to let ME/CFS medicine catch up with the new millennium. And that requires thorough examination of the possibility of XMRV retroviral involvement - free of political machinations by dubious psycholobby characters.

Positive ME/CFS/XMRV studies a matter of time: Fortunately, retroviral luminaries such as F. Ruscetti predict that the "controversy" over XMRV in ME/CFS will be resolved in 2011. And world-renowned retrovirologist John Coffin dismisses the flimsy complaints of "contamination". Follow the science - not the blusters of the panic-stricken psycholobby. Message to van der Meer: this is no time to be rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

 

[pollycbr125]

And bless your little cotton socks too pollycbr125 and Rivotril (in a good way). Your post, pic, and thread made the Dutch media.

Im afraid the credit must go to Fred lol He originally posted the pic i just happened to agree it was hilarious and added the aw bless his little cotton socks comment

I wonder if the Dutch get British humour rofl :tear::tear::tear:

 

[pollycbr125]

I cant quite work out their translation of my original quote lol .......

aw bless His little cotton socks

Must remember to use this pic in dance Any future correspondence with wessley and co, so true what They Say Can a face speak a thousand words

aw bless his little cotton socks :Sign Good one:

must remember to use this pic in any future correspondance with wessley and co , so true what they say a face can speak a thousand words

DANCE ? DANCE ? where did i mention dance the mere thought of dancing with wessley is enough to give me nightmares arghh!! you know that really horible top to toe feeling you get when something gives you the creeps thats how i feel right now .

if there was a cringe factor on tv hed win hands down

 

[fred]

Your post, pic, and thread made the Dutch media here.

Quite remarkable.

 

[justinreilly]

Hopefully this version will do well....

Anger over controversial fatigue test

Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:07 | Last updated: Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:36

NIJMEGEN - The Radboud Hospital condemns the decision of the Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno (USA) for offering a presently controversial test to detect a fatgue virus (XMRV) . According to Professor of Internal Medicine Jos van der Meer of the UMC St Radboud there still rages plenty of discussion about whether the test (cost: 650 euros) is reliable.
He himself is not convinced of the existence of the fatigue virus. "when you're offering such a test at this moment, you're doing wrong. The marketbased-thinking then dominates at the expense of scientific reliability. "

The Nijmegen hospital since last year embroiled in a fierce controversy about whether chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is caused by a virus. The American Institute in October pretended to have found evidence for a blood test with which the virus can be verified. This would be found in two thirds of patients.

Nijmegen researchers found no pathogenic agent with the same test. According to the Nijmegen laboratory scientists, the U.S. laboratory is probably contaminated. "In this kind of testing this is common, it's a known problem."

The two camps both hold the view that they personally did run the test in a correct way

Is 'pretended' a correct translation. If so, I might have a problem with this.

 

[bettine]

yes Justin, pretended is the correct translation of Dutch pretendeerde.
Note though, that it is not a direct quote by Van der Meer. (but it is his opinion, that is for sure ..... )

 

[flybro]

weasle is definatly creepy,

i would rather die than be stuck in any hospital he had access to, especially if hopsitalsied against my will.