fred
The game is afoot
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Shame it's not been fired.
Van der Meer strikes again
- Thread starter Rivotril
- Start date
Shame it's not been fired.
JillBohr
Senior Member
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- Columbus, OH
Heck, we can all email the newspaper. I would be even more surprised if the journalist did not know English.
omerbasket
Senior Member
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- 510
I just emailed them - I suggest you fellows would do the same if you can.
ixchelkali
Senior Member
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- Long Beach, CA
He certainly is mud-slinging, isn't he? Too bad that when he throws mud, we patients all get spattered with it. Unfortunately, if you keep repeating a lie often enough and loud enough, some people will believe it (as many politicians have discovered). Especially if it confirms what they want to believe.
There are people determined to undermine this research with a smear campaign. I hope it doesn't stop the funding. I hope good scientists (besides the WPI) will go the distance to determine the truth.
I don't think I like that man.
There are people determined to undermine this research with a smear campaign. I hope it doesn't stop the funding. I hope good scientists (besides the WPI) will go the distance to determine the truth.
I don't think I like that man.
I will also mail them...
Just for the info about "De Gelderlander" : (the newspaper in case).. Gelderland is a "state" in the Netherlands, and Nijmegen one of the main cities in that "state". So it's, more or less, that the paper and Van der Meer are on good terms, they are the major newspaper in the erea where his scientific centre is settled.. and now I have the impression he uses it for his "propaganda"
Because of this, I think they will be very careful in critisism to his "work".
Sounds a bit like censured shit from iraq like I tell it now, hope it's not that bad
Maybe it's also a good idea to send the translated (English) version of the article to WPI? So that they know what's going on
Just for the info about "De Gelderlander" : (the newspaper in case).. Gelderland is a "state" in the Netherlands, and Nijmegen one of the main cities in that "state". So it's, more or less, that the paper and Van der Meer are on good terms, they are the major newspaper in the erea where his scientific centre is settled.. and now I have the impression he uses it for his "propaganda"
Because of this, I think they will be very careful in critisism to his "work".
Sounds a bit like censured shit from iraq like I tell it now, hope it's not that bad
Maybe it's also a good idea to send the translated (English) version of the article to WPI? So that they know what's going on
parvofighter
Senior Member
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- Canada
It's all good
Hi folks,
Here is a link where you can add comments in English: http://www.gelderlander.nl/voorpagi...treden-vermoeidheidstest.ece?start=2&sort=asc
The more vocal and public Van der Meer is, the better.... this makes it all the easier to illuminate what we have been up against. Mark my words, as soon as the European blood services start banning blood from ME/CFS patients, VDM will start looking ridiculous. And once those positive studies come in, and (as per Ruscetti's prediction) the issue of XMRV in ME/CFS patients is settled, we can go for the jugular. Probably, we won't need to, because there will be a massive distancing by government big-wigs from the psycholobby. Rats leaving a sinking ship.
I'm not at all surprised to hear this blustering from the psycholobby. Amp it up guys - we're hanging on your every word... and copying it. BTW... see you in court.:Retro smile:
Hi folks,
Here is a link where you can add comments in English: http://www.gelderlander.nl/voorpagi...treden-vermoeidheidstest.ece?start=2&sort=asc
The more vocal and public Van der Meer is, the better.... this makes it all the easier to illuminate what we have been up against. Mark my words, as soon as the European blood services start banning blood from ME/CFS patients, VDM will start looking ridiculous. And once those positive studies come in, and (as per Ruscetti's prediction) the issue of XMRV in ME/CFS patients is settled, we can go for the jugular. Probably, we won't need to, because there will be a massive distancing by government big-wigs from the psycholobby. Rats leaving a sinking ship.
I'm not at all surprised to hear this blustering from the psycholobby. Amp it up guys - we're hanging on your every word... and copying it. BTW... see you in court.:Retro smile:
I agree Parvo, they are on a slippery slope and not going to be able to hold on much longer. This is getting interesting.
JillBohr
Senior Member
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- Columbus, OH
When posting a comment online, does the comment appear automatically? I just posted one and it is not showing up.
anciendaze
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,841
When? How many experiments?
It probably has to be viewed by someone to make sure it won't get them in legal trouble. Everyone running a site has to be cautious these days -- for reasons that have nothing to do with controversy over CFS.
-----
Does anyone know the date of the interview which led to that piece? If it wasn't substantially delayed, it would seem van der Meer is way out of touch. That is decidedly careless in a changing situation, which supports parvofighter's observation.
Second question: In re-evaluating some facts in light of Dr. Mikovits letter, I wondered how many control samples were involved. She says one was included with each experiment, but I'm not sure what constitutes an experiment. If each sample were paired with a control, the chance of all contaminated samples not being controls would make the contamination hypothesis unlikely even with seven samples. If there were only one added to a run of seven, it wouldn't be enough to say very much.
Scale the numbers up to 2/3 of the samples in the Science paper, which were certainly done in many separate experiments, and the hypothesis looks absurd. Rough and sloppy estimate: If the contamination rate is 2/3, the chance of having only a single uncontaminated negative control is only 1/3. With two controls, it is 1/9. With n controls it is 1/3^n. If you were to throw out every run with a contaminated negative control, and keep running tests until you get positive responses, you could get whatever results you like. This is approximately what the "whispered" accusations suggest. Thus, the outrage.
Making some plausible assumptions about those controls, it looks to me like nobody analyzed the contamination argument at all. For people running laboratories, tracing contamination is a constant battle. If you assume contamination, and try to find the source, you might end up looking in Nijmegen.
It probably has to be viewed by someone to make sure it won't get them in legal trouble. Everyone running a site has to be cautious these days -- for reasons that have nothing to do with controversy over CFS.
-----
Does anyone know the date of the interview which led to that piece? If it wasn't substantially delayed, it would seem van der Meer is way out of touch. That is decidedly careless in a changing situation, which supports parvofighter's observation.
Second question: In re-evaluating some facts in light of Dr. Mikovits letter, I wondered how many control samples were involved. She says one was included with each experiment, but I'm not sure what constitutes an experiment. If each sample were paired with a control, the chance of all contaminated samples not being controls would make the contamination hypothesis unlikely even with seven samples. If there were only one added to a run of seven, it wouldn't be enough to say very much.
Scale the numbers up to 2/3 of the samples in the Science paper, which were certainly done in many separate experiments, and the hypothesis looks absurd. Rough and sloppy estimate: If the contamination rate is 2/3, the chance of having only a single uncontaminated negative control is only 1/3. With two controls, it is 1/9. With n controls it is 1/3^n. If you were to throw out every run with a contaminated negative control, and keep running tests until you get positive responses, you could get whatever results you like. This is approximately what the "whispered" accusations suggest. Thus, the outrage.
Making some plausible assumptions about those controls, it looks to me like nobody analyzed the contamination argument at all. For people running laboratories, tracing contamination is a constant battle. If you assume contamination, and try to find the source, you might end up looking in Nijmegen.
usedtobeperkytina
Senior Member
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The taller they are, the harder they fall.
Or as the Apostle Paul put it: "Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall."
Tina
Or as the Apostle Paul put it: "Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall."
Tina
They read the comments first, normally it will appear after 24 hours.
parvofighter
Senior Member
- Messages
- 440
- Location
- Canada
You made the Dutch Media!
Visitors: to say that ME/CFS patients are furious is a gentle understatement. Imagine if you had a devastating neuro-immune condition that more and more looks like a retroviral infection - like AIDS. Imagine that - as a result of this disease - you lost your loved ones, your career, your active hobbies, your quality of life. Now imagine that you were offered psychotherapy to change your "false illness beliefs" - instead of legitimate biomedical diagnosis and treatment. That is what psycho charlatans have been doing for decades - calling us malingerers, while lining their pockets and their curriculum vitae with ego boosts - at the expense of us patients, our loved ones, and your national economies.
And now that the ship is sinking after hitting a potentially cancer-causing retrovirus, van der Meer is "outraged" that we want redress. As I said in an earlier post, "See you in court". The $hit hasn't even BEGUN to hit the proverbial fan.
Who are you going to trust: the psycholobby which has everything to lose (prestige, status, lucrative contracts, and image-boosting market size of patients? Or blood services around the world, which are doing the only sensible thing possible - in the face of possible retroviral contamination of their blood supply - shutting down donations by patients with ME/CFS. Which country do you want to be in for your next car accident requiring a blood transfusion: Canada, New Zealand, and/or Australia - which are at the vanguard of protecting their blood supply? Or the Netherlands or UK especially, where Stone-Age psychiatric practices have a stranglehold on biomedical progress - and where the blood may be contaminated by the next AIDS virus? Take your pick.
Keep in mind too that if the virus is found in as many as 4% of healthy controls, YOU could be the next ME/CFS patient... waiting to lose everything you hold dear - as the medical establishment ridicules you over the course of not just years, but decades, for being a so-called malingerer. It's time to let ME/CFS medicine catch up with the new millennium. And that requires thorough examination of the possibility of XMRV retroviral involvement - free of political machinations by dubious psycholobby characters.
Positive ME/CFS/XMRV studies a matter of time: Fortunately, retroviral luminaries such as F. Ruscetti predict that the "controversy" over XMRV in ME/CFS will be resolved in 2011. And world-renowned retrovirologist John Coffin dismisses the flimsy complaints of "contamination". Follow the science - not the blusters of the panic-stricken psycholobby. Message to van der Meer: this is no time to be rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic.
And bless your little cotton socks too pollycbr125 and Rivotril (in a good way). Your post, pic, and thread made the Dutch media here:http://translate.google.ca/translat...hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&tbo=p&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ln !
Visitors: to say that ME/CFS patients are furious is a gentle understatement. Imagine if you had a devastating neuro-immune condition that more and more looks like a retroviral infection - like AIDS. Imagine that - as a result of this disease - you lost your loved ones, your career, your active hobbies, your quality of life. Now imagine that you were offered psychotherapy to change your "false illness beliefs" - instead of legitimate biomedical diagnosis and treatment. That is what psycho charlatans have been doing for decades - calling us malingerers, while lining their pockets and their curriculum vitae with ego boosts - at the expense of us patients, our loved ones, and your national economies.
And now that the ship is sinking after hitting a potentially cancer-causing retrovirus, van der Meer is "outraged" that we want redress. As I said in an earlier post, "See you in court". The $hit hasn't even BEGUN to hit the proverbial fan.
Who are you going to trust: the psycholobby which has everything to lose (prestige, status, lucrative contracts, and image-boosting market size of patients? Or blood services around the world, which are doing the only sensible thing possible - in the face of possible retroviral contamination of their blood supply - shutting down donations by patients with ME/CFS. Which country do you want to be in for your next car accident requiring a blood transfusion: Canada, New Zealand, and/or Australia - which are at the vanguard of protecting their blood supply? Or the Netherlands or UK especially, where Stone-Age psychiatric practices have a stranglehold on biomedical progress - and where the blood may be contaminated by the next AIDS virus? Take your pick.
Keep in mind too that if the virus is found in as many as 4% of healthy controls, YOU could be the next ME/CFS patient... waiting to lose everything you hold dear - as the medical establishment ridicules you over the course of not just years, but decades, for being a so-called malingerer. It's time to let ME/CFS medicine catch up with the new millennium. And that requires thorough examination of the possibility of XMRV retroviral involvement - free of political machinations by dubious psycholobby characters.
Positive ME/CFS/XMRV studies a matter of time: Fortunately, retroviral luminaries such as F. Ruscetti predict that the "controversy" over XMRV in ME/CFS will be resolved in 2011. And world-renowned retrovirologist John Coffin dismisses the flimsy complaints of "contamination". Follow the science - not the blusters of the panic-stricken psycholobby. Message to van der Meer: this is no time to be rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic.
pollycbr125
Senior Member
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Im afraid the credit must go to Fred lol He originally posted the pic i just happened to agree it was hilarious and added the aw bless his little cotton socks comment
I wonder if the Dutch get British humour rofl :tear::tear::tear:
pollycbr125
Senior Member
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- Location
- yorkshire
I cant quite work out their translation of my original quote lol .......
aw bless His little cotton socks
Must remember to use this pic in dance Any future correspondence with wessley and co, so true what They Say Can a face speak a thousand words
DANCE ? DANCE ? where did i mention dance the mere thought of dancing with wessley is enough to give me nightmares arghh!! you know that really horible top to toe feeling you get when something gives you the creeps thats how i feel right now .
if there was a cringe factor on tv hed win hands down
aw bless His little cotton socks
Must remember to use this pic in dance Any future correspondence with wessley and co, so true what They Say Can a face speak a thousand words
aw bless his little cotton socks :Sign Good one:
must remember to use this pic in any future correspondance with wessley and co , so true what they say a face can speak a thousand words
DANCE ? DANCE ? where did i mention dance
the mere thought of dancing with wessley is enough to give me nightmares arghh!! you know that really horible top to toe feeling you get when something gives you the creeps thats how i feel right now .if there was a cringe factor on tv hed win hands down
fred
The game is afoot
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- 400
Quite remarkable.
justinreilly
Senior Member
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Is 'pretended' a correct translation. If so, I might have a problem with this.
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- Utrecht (Netherlands)
yes Justin, pretended is the correct translation of Dutch pretendeerde.
Note though, that it is not a direct quote by Van der Meer. (but it is his opinion, that is for sure ..... )
Note though, that it is not a direct quote by Van der Meer. (but it is his opinion, that is for sure ..... )
