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Transdermal B12 oils

Jadzhia

Senior Member
Messages
148
Location
England, UK
Thank you for this long and comprehensive post. Your profile is very like many of us who have found our way to Greg and his oils. His hard work in trying to find out sources of the Iodine/Selenium/Molybdenum that actually work has led him to develop the companion mineral oils that go with his B-12 Oils. If one has multiple B-12 snps, as well as MAO/B2 issues, this may be a worthwhile path to check out. Greg says that of those he has worked with with this profile (and I believe there are over a thousand of us or more), he says 100% of us are B-12 deficient (often 'paradoxically' which is a challenge to understand!), and 80% of us are B2 deficient.

Unfortunately, like you, it has been very hard to convince a doctor to look into my thyroid as a source of problems. Because my TSH falls within the 'normal' range of between .5 and 5, they ignore the fact that my total T3 has been hovering at or below range ( 76-180ng/dL) as far back as I've been keeping track of it (2014). Also like you, a little selenium back then might have gone a long way. Now, who knows?

I've struggled with my health for about 25 years

I'm so sorry to hear you have been struggling for so long.

Yes I am what he calls 'paradoxically' deficient in B12 - i.e. my lab values show high levels of B12 but actually it's not available to me biochemically (it's in the wrong form? ). So am working on that with the TD oil.

Since posting I now strongly suspect the 'musty' weird smell/taste is a detox caused by Molybdenum. I've done an n=1 experiment on myself and the smell increases when I take Moly and decreases when I stop. I also now suspect it may be increased by eating bread or other gluten free high carb products (so wheat/grain products causing it in some way?) but haven't gotten further than that so far. Takes ages figuring things out!
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
I'm so sorry to hear you have been struggling for so long.

It has certainly been a diminished life, but it took a downturn around 2014 when I arrived here. This site guided me greatly, as has Greg's over the past couple of years as I've zeroed in on issues. It's been a long and winding road (!), but I do feel I am making progress. My sleep, which has been sort of napping (or not) through the night, and the refeeding (anything that I've been seriously deficient in has caused heart palps/irregularities) have both settled down over the last few months, so that I have nights where I have no heart issues, and where I sleep as much as 7 hours--in broken naps. And I am sooooooo grateful! I feel like the vise is loosening--enough that I am thinking of taking a neuro-plasticity course at Boston's Mind-Body Institute to get over the trauma of all this.

Let's face it, when you deal with these symptoms day after day for years--it does induce a kind of trauma!

Best to you!
 

Artemisia

Senior Member
Messages
175
Very interested to find this thread! I've been following GRJ's protocol for the past two years in an attempt to improve my health. Some things have improved, others not. I'm still a work in progress, it seems. I started on transdermal B12 oil in January 2020, having done an OAT and HTMA as GRJ likes to see where one is at re vitamin/mineral levels. Needless to say I was deficient in B12, B2, iron, Vit D, slightly in B1, and my ketones were quite raised (I was underweight at the time as I was barely eating due to histamine intolerance and oxalate issues, so was likely breaking down body proteins). He reckons one can fix histamine and oxalate issues by repleting B2, and this is done via a cascade starting with Iodine, Selenium and Molybdenum and the thyroid, as I have seen others mention in this thread.

I am hypothyroid (autoimmune) and was already taking T3 only when I began on the protocol. GRJ isn't a fan of T3 as he says it's too difficult to regulate, but I am no fan of T4 monotherapy as it just didn't work for me. He wants me to go back onto T4 and from there try to reduce that and hopefully end up not needing thyroid hormones, provided the Iodine, Selenium work and I have thyroid function left. I'm not convinced of this approach. It might have worked when I was first diagnosed, as I think possibly Selenium deficiency was my main problem. However I didn't come across GRJ for some years and in the intervening time, gave up gluten, went dairy free, and I defintely made myself more deficient in B2 the process. So it's no longer an easy fix, if it ever was. I have spent the past few years trying various thyroid hormone combos. T4 only, then NDT, then T3 only, and am currently on a mix of T4 and T3. I just never feel well, so clearly something else is out of kilter. Doctors in the UK are reluctant (understatement!) to prescribe T3 and my doctor told me I wouldn't get it anyway, so I self-source. It does make my brain feel so much clearer, so even though that's the only noticeable improvement from T4 only therapy, it's well worth it.

I also tried taking I/Se/Mo transdermal oils after I'd been on B12 oil for awhile and had worked up to the full dosages of oral I/Se/Mo. I found after several months I could smell something musty coming from my skin. My taste was ruined by the mustiness, my clothes smelt of it. I decided it must be the oils (that's a lot of oil to put on daily) and I cut out the I/Se/Mo and went back to tablets, but kept the B12 oil as I don't think there's a better source. The mustiness reduced to a manageable level, I can still smell it occasionally but it's bearable. No idea what it is or what causes it. The Moly did fix my low stomach acid which was giving me reflux, so that's also a huge plus. I have now switched to liquid Moly as I find I absorb it better, hoping to do the same with Selenium.

I still occasionally contact GRJ if I have new results. He can be a bit grumpy but his biochemical knowledge is undeniable, and he has a huge amount of data now from all the people he helps or gets OATs from.

Hi, do you have an update on T3 only vs T4 only?

I'm thinking of trying Greg's protocol but I also feel better on T3 only, or on a high t3 : t4 ratio. I'm very wary of his iodine recommendations as I was sent into a thyroid crisis years ago from a low dose of Lugol's iodine.

Also doing more testing (oat, htma) is something I dread! Just did so many tests for so many years. Haven't done a single test in 2 years and it's been nice.
 

Jadzhia

Senior Member
Messages
148
Location
England, UK
Hi, do you have an update on T3 only vs T4 only?

I'm thinking of trying Greg's protocol but I also feel better on T3 only, or on a high t3 : t4 ratio. I'm very wary of his iodine recommendations as I was sent into a thyroid crisis years ago from a low dose of Lugol's iodine.

Also doing more testing (oat, htma) is something I dread! Just did so many tests for so many years. Haven't done a single test in 2 years and it's been nice.

I am taking T3 only again. I ditched the T4 as I couldn't see any noticeable differences/improvement. There's no way I am going to try to transition to T4. It's just nuts, because I don't convert well. The amount of time feeling unwell doing these types of experiments is unacceptable to me. I'm 66 and would like not to feel poorly for what remains of my life! For what it's worth, if you feel better on T3 only or mainly T3 then listen to what your body is telling you. Greg is not a thyroid expert.

I am also done with HMTA testing - I too am tired of a lot of testing, I have pretty much stopped blood tests for the time being. I will do another OAT by the end of this year, though. I totally relate to the stress of it all!
 
Messages
18
I am taking T3 only again. I ditched the T4 as I couldn't see any noticeable differences/improvement. There's no way I am going to try to transition to T4. It's just nuts, because I don't convert well. The amount of time feeling unwell doing these types of experiments is unacceptable to me. I'm 66 and would like not to feel poorly for what remains of my life! For what it's worth, if you feel better on T3 only or mainly T3 then listen to what your body is telling you. Greg is not a thyroid expert.

I am also done with HMTA testing - I too am tired of a lot of testing, I have pretty much stopped blood tests for the time being. I will do another OAT by the end of this year, though. I totally relate to the stress of it all!

Just adding my 2 cents, its been a while since I posted. So arriving to this conclusion my self seems things progressed here as well.
It all comes down to the thyroid and greg is right about the iodine. And all the people including me that had to avoid gluthatione due to b12 depleting all of a sudden, It seems to stop somewhat as I supplement iodine/potassium iodide. However the missing link is still there,for some reason, wonder what I am missing now? If i supplement potassium iodide the b12 does not go low but I get more hypo symptoms and hypo is what more inclined to begin with, searching online in iodine groups it seems that rt3 might have something to do with it, supplementing iodine too.
I did have a break through once or twice but that was with alot of natural iodine food, and that is when I got the feeling of being restored, immense energy levels, mind starts working atleast 2x faster however they lasted only a day and 3 days at best.
Maybe greg knows whats going on, will share more if I find out something, I believe this is the nutrient fred would be missing too since from memory he was on dairy free diet.
 

Jadzhia

Senior Member
Messages
148
Location
England, UK
Maybe greg knows whats going on, will share more if I find out something, I believe this is the nutrient fred would be missing too since from memory he was on dairy free diet.

Dairy free also means less molybdenum and less B2. They're both in Greg's 'cascade of energy' and so any deficiency there would mean B12 not being activated. Plus don't forget Selenium, without it you won't convert enough T4 into T3. You may have experienced a short boost by taking iodine then ran out of sufficient selenium to convert to T3. Or any other subsequent steps of the cascade.
 
Messages
18
Dairy free also means less molybdenum and less B2. They're both in Greg's 'cascade of energy' and so any deficiency there would mean B12 not being activated. Plus don't forget Selenium, without it you won't convert enough T4 into T3. You may have experienced a short boost by taking iodine then ran out of sufficient selenium to convert to T3. Or any other subsequent steps of the cascade.

Your right just wondering what it is.
I do supplement active b vitamins and selenium so mixed responses with that.