The Undetectable Infection
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knackers323
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Not sure it does not say. Are they worse than the rest?
It breaks the streptococcus down into alpha and beta-haemolytic which I am high in and non-haemolytic which I have non of.
My test was done in 07 and it looks set out a little different to how they do it now.
I am low for total bacteroids, lactobacillus and clostridium
High for enterococcus, streptococcus, staphylococcus, kliebsiella and bifidobacterium.
Do my results fit in with your ideas?
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knackers323
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When we get infected with these things can they cause stomach upset?
My illness began with about ten days of the worst stomach cramps I have ever had. I went to the hospital twice thinking it may be appendicitis.
But I have had no stomach symptoms since.
Ten years later when I got the bioscreen test the doc said to take antibiotics one week on/three weeks off with acidophilus probiotics and that would need to be repeated for about 6-12 months to see improvement.
Do you think this would have worked?
My illness began with about ten days of the worst stomach cramps I have ever had. I went to the hospital twice thinking it may be appendicitis.
But I have had no stomach symptoms since.
Ten years later when I got the bioscreen test the doc said to take antibiotics one week on/three weeks off with acidophilus probiotics and that would need to be repeated for about 6-12 months to see improvement.
Do you think this would have worked?
The papers I posted today say that these bugs are almost totally resistant to normal antibiotics and 7 days exposure will make their resistance levels worse .... I have one specifically on that subject somewhere .... So the antibiotics become ineffective and just start killing off good bugs ....
I physically put these bugs in my bowel .... And like you, the same thing happened to me ....
And if you look back at a post I made, it says that most people will have an initial flare up and then will settle down somewhat when the immune system kicks in ....
My 3 biggest dramas are reflux, bloating and severe flatulance ....
I physically put these bugs in my bowel .... And like you, the same thing happened to me ....
And if you look back at a post I made, it says that most people will have an initial flare up and then will settle down somewhat when the immune system kicks in ....
My 3 biggest dramas are reflux, bloating and severe flatulance ....
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knackers323
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When you first put them in your bowel, did you get stomach pain?
How soon into starting your abx did you feel an improvement?
Which ones are the known pathogens? I was never told this before.
Thanks
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aimossy
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48hrs rules me out of their testing.lol.oh well.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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You are even worse .... You have known pathogens as well
But yes, you have a gut infection, otherwise called a disbyosis ...
'Gut dysbiosis' means a pathological imbalance of gut flora, and is very common in ME, as a number of threads show. It can have a range of causes, as can leaky gut. Many of us have corrected the imbalance using various methods, including natural or pharmaceutical antibiotics, diet and supplements.
I'm afraid I don't have time to read all the papers or test results you have posted. It would be easier if you posted a referenced summary.
I hope the people whose results you have attached have all given their permission.
lansbergen
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Here you claim it is not overgrowth but later you post lab results that say it is overgrowth.
Hi lansbergen,
It seems this whole concept of the undetectable infection is too difficult for this forum .... You will notice that I have posted a report from the local lab, or from the 'gold standard lab' that clearly states 'no streptococcus or enterococcus isolated' .... Yet they were both taken within a few days of each other .
Basically, a normal lab that cultures can't detect it .... The Bioscreen test is done by a laser mass spectrometer and detects everything .....
It seems this whole concept of the undetectable infection is too difficult for this forum .... You will notice that I have posted a report from the local lab, or from the 'gold standard lab' that clearly states 'no streptococcus or enterococcus isolated' .... Yet they were both taken within a few days of each other .
Basically, a normal lab that cultures can't detect it .... The Bioscreen test is done by a laser mass spectrometer and detects everything .....
lansbergen
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The Bioscreen tests say overgrowth. It is even written in red.
That is correct overgrowth = infection
These are levels lower than can be detected in regular labs .... my whole point ....
lansbergen
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Overgrowth is dysbiosis
It is more than an imbalance or a dysbiosis MeSi & lansbergen it is how these bugs interact with the colon wall, the mucous membranes and their interaction with the immune system ..... my whole point .....
But it seems the whole thread has just been a waste of my time .... thread finished!!
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As a final word, this is Bioscreen's recommendation for Streptococcal and enterococcal overgrowth:
This is not advice, but for information only ....
Bioscreen has shown that dysbiosis commonly occurs in chronic fatigue syndrome and autism patients. Mainly low e-coli and high streptococcus or enterococcus.
Low e-coli causes fatigue, pain, mood changes and constipation
High Strep and enterococcus causes constipation, brain fog/poor concentration, poor sleep, slurred speech, food sensitivities/allergies
Treatment:
Step1. Antibiotics
Streptococcus:
Erythromycin: Adults 250mg twice daily
Children 125mg twice daily
week 1 and week 3 x 7 days
Enterococcus
Ampicillin enteric coated
Adults 500mg three times daily
children 250mg three times daily
week 1 and week 3 for 7 days
Step 2 Probiotics
Saccharomyces boulardii .... Jarrow formulas Saccharomyces boulardii + MOS 1 twice daily
Jarrow formulas: Jarrow-Dophilus EPS 1 up to 4 times daily between meals if possible
Step 3 Alkalise:
Sodium bicarbonate 1sp in warm water 3x daily between meals
Rationale is to alkalise ileo-caecal area in gut
Both streptococcus and enterococcus produce d-lactic acid which acidifies this area and increases the risk of muscle pain and fatigue.
Step 4. Diet
No sucrose, fructose, glucose or any simple sugars
Step 5. Pancreatic enzymes
Medizyme 3 to 4 twice with meals
Step 6 B Vitamins
Methylcobalamin and activated B vitamins
Step 7. Food sensitivities, avoid the following:
Streptococcus increases lgG antibodies for rice, nuts, corn, wheat, potato, yeast.
Step 8. Improve gut health.
Glutamine, fish oils, antioxidants
Chew xylitol chewing gum ... 2 reasons
1. Chewing increases epithelial growth factor, which improves growth in gut lining cells.
2. xylitol is good sugar which inhibits growth of bad bacteria in mouth including streptococci
This is only for information ......
This is not advice, but for information only ....
Bioscreen has shown that dysbiosis commonly occurs in chronic fatigue syndrome and autism patients. Mainly low e-coli and high streptococcus or enterococcus.
Low e-coli causes fatigue, pain, mood changes and constipation
High Strep and enterococcus causes constipation, brain fog/poor concentration, poor sleep, slurred speech, food sensitivities/allergies
Treatment:
Step1. Antibiotics
Streptococcus:
Erythromycin: Adults 250mg twice daily
Children 125mg twice daily
week 1 and week 3 x 7 days
Enterococcus
Ampicillin enteric coated
Adults 500mg three times daily
children 250mg three times daily
week 1 and week 3 for 7 days
Step 2 Probiotics
Saccharomyces boulardii .... Jarrow formulas Saccharomyces boulardii + MOS 1 twice daily
Jarrow formulas: Jarrow-Dophilus EPS 1 up to 4 times daily between meals if possible
Step 3 Alkalise:
Sodium bicarbonate 1sp in warm water 3x daily between meals
Rationale is to alkalise ileo-caecal area in gut
Both streptococcus and enterococcus produce d-lactic acid which acidifies this area and increases the risk of muscle pain and fatigue.
Step 4. Diet
No sucrose, fructose, glucose or any simple sugars
Step 5. Pancreatic enzymes
Medizyme 3 to 4 twice with meals
Step 6 B Vitamins
Methylcobalamin and activated B vitamins
Step 7. Food sensitivities, avoid the following:
Streptococcus increases lgG antibodies for rice, nuts, corn, wheat, potato, yeast.
Step 8. Improve gut health.
Glutamine, fish oils, antioxidants
Chew xylitol chewing gum ... 2 reasons
1. Chewing increases epithelial growth factor, which improves growth in gut lining cells.
2. xylitol is good sugar which inhibits growth of bad bacteria in mouth including streptococci
This is only for information ......
lansbergen
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I learned you must culture and test which antibiotic works best on the pathogen(s).
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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I've been doing a lot of that for 19 months after reading leaky-gut papers, making connections and doing further reading and checking, as I have detailed in the leaky-gut forum. It has helped a lot with multiple symptoms and I have high hopes for continuing improvement. But I use grapefruit seed extract instead of pharmaceutical antibiotics.
I note that it is claimed that the gut dysbiosis in question causes constipation, but a high proportion of us appear to have diarrhoea. This supports the suspicion that there are subgroups, with different people having different types of dysbiosis, definitions of which can be found here.
People with diarrhoeal dysbiosis have been found to benefit from gluten-free diets, as is also reported in one or two threads. Many of us here have benefited from this.