The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

Vegas

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I am also concerned about histamines. When I started taking high dose thiamine therapy last July, along with energy that i haven't seen in years came chronic hives. After much research I decided the hives were histamine related.

I know I have a leaky gut so I am on a quest to solve that. I just started taking the RS so don't know if that will help. I have also tried L-glutamine for the hives and that does help but they never completely went away.

Unfortunately, after reading this entire thread, I am confused as to how much potato starch to take and how often. Part of me just wants to take the massive doses and weather the storm.

The effect of the thiamine on my energy has reduced. So I am stopping the thiamine supplements for a couple of weeks to see if the hives go away and if they will give me a boost when I start up again. As always I am doing too many things to feel better and I won't be able to tell what worked...the lack of thiamine or the RS.

Lynn
If you have overt histamine-mediated symptoms, I think you will want to think twice about "weathering a storm." I don't think there are many people who want to weather a "cytokine storm," after all is said and done. I also don't believe there is any merit to the idea that you can push through this. It is somewhat counter-intuitive, as you need to understand that the immune stimulation does not stop when you discontinue the starch, it can build for some time.
 

Ripley

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Thanks so much, @Ripley! I did thank him but I didn't mention the weeping. :cry::cry::cry:

That's fantastic new coverage and it's bound to bring in some donations. I'll post again and thank him. Wow!

What's fascinating to me now, on this thread, is that many people seem to have started out with PS and then started adjusting by adding different pre/probiotics for a bespoke solution. @Gestalt's experience is amazing.

I'm wondering if Lipkin's work will show that we all have the same problem or a range of different problems (i.e. different microbiome profiles) but with similar downstream effects on the immune system. The study will link each person's cytokine profile to their microbiome profile - it's a very sophisticated study. I'm wondering if it will lead to bespoke pre/probiotic treatments, further down the road, based on an individual's DNA-sequenced microbiome profile. That is, rather than blundering in the dark now, as we are, we'll be able to get guidance.

Thanks again!

:cry::cry::cry:
@Sasha, glad it's getting out there!

As for PS, the reason why people tend to start with PS is because it is extremely cheap and easy. $3.99 can last people a month or more. So, the cost/benefit risk is extremely low for people to try it. Tim Steele investigated a lot of different prebiotics, including Larch, beta-glucan, before he started promoting PS, but he was particularly intrigued by how easy it was for people to obtain and use tablespoons of PS — most people already had it in their homes. And I think PS is a great way for people to see how powerful a raw prebiotic found in an every day food can be. I still can't get over the power of what a teaspoon of starch can do. Hard for someone to visualize it until they feel it for themselves. I think it rarely occurs to most people, even to scientists who research this stuff, to take spoonfuls of prebiotic supplements.

So, PS is just about convenience and cost. And RS is where most butyrate seems to come from, so it's a great place for most people to start off. But once people see how their bodies react, they start to diversify their fibers and experiment appropriately.
 
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Vegas

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I'm happy to hear things have settled for you. :thumbsup:
I have had a number of 'bad' days with the "hornet's nest" flu, but I can feel various positive shifts. As well as more activity tolerance I noticed I can handle more carbohydrates, and when I had a break from thiamine (I do this every so often because I don't really feel OK about taking a single B vitamin at such a high dose) my typical burning calf muscle symptom didn't return! Not one bit! Whether this means I'm making more of my own B1 I don't know? (Thiamine helps with carbohydrate metabolism as well.) So I have decided not to re-start B1 and wait and see what happens. Muscles overall feel much better....not so tight. <-- This possibly sounds like a LOT of improvement, but the changes are all quite subtle. I'm still dealing with mild lymph burning intermittently and the feeling I'm seeing off some unfriendly bugs....so it's a mixed bag.

@maryb I'm alternating Frontier Naturals potato starch with Honig (non organic) and an Australian made Green banana flour - Mt Uncle's brand. I'm using so little of either I think everything will pass it's Best Before Date well before I get through it! ;) Same as Frou, I noticed a change in the way my body dealt with it's recent flu-like challenge. Less inflammation and no autoimmune pain. Maybe a more 'normal' (and effective?) response? ...I am speculating there, but I have a good feeling about this resistant starch lark... ;)
I think there are going to be some real changes relating to B vitamin needs, particularly those most closely tied to energy metabolism: Niacin, thiamine, riboflavin. I'm not sure about Biotin. While there will eventually be less need for all of these, at first the ride may be somewhat smoother with more, or possibly less of some of these vitamins.
 
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Vegas

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[/quote]

As for PS, the reason why people tend to start with PS is because it is extremely cheap and easy. $3.99 can last people a month or more. So, the cost/benefit risk is extremely low for people to try it. Tim Steele investigated a lot of different prebiotics, including Larch, beta-glucan, before he started promoting PS, but he was particularly intrigued by how easy it was for people to obtain and use tablespoons of PS — most people already had it in their homes. And I think PS is a great way for people to see how powerful a raw prebiotic found in an every day food can be. I still can't get over the power of what a teaspoon of starch can do. Hard for someone to visualize it until they feel it for themselves. I think it rarely occurs, even to scientists who research this stuff, to take spoonfuls of raw prebiotics.

So, PS is just about convenience and cost. And RS is where most butyrate seems to come from, so it's a great place for most people to start off. But once people see how their bodies react, they start to diversify their fibers and experiment appropriately.[/quote]


This is very interesting, and I think the effects are more diverse than simply acting as prebiotics. These compounds have other independent functions.
 

Vegas

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I'm happy to hear things have settled for you. :thumbsup:
I have had a number of 'bad' days with the "hornet's nest" flu, but I can feel various positive shifts. As well as more activity tolerance I noticed I can handle more carbohydrates, and when I had a break from thiamine (I do this every so often because I don't really feel OK about taking a single B vitamin at such a high dose) my typical burning calf muscle symptom didn't return! Not one bit! Whether this means I'm making more of my own B1 I don't know? (Thiamine helps with carbohydrate metabolism as well.) So I have decided not to re-start B1 and wait and see what happens. Muscles overall feel much better....not so tight. <-- This possibly sounds like a LOT of improvement, but the changes are all quite subtle. I'm still dealing with mild lymph burning intermittently and the feeling I'm seeing off some unfriendly bugs....so it's a mixed bag.

@maryb I'm alternating Frontier Naturals potato starch with Honig (non organic) and an Australian made Green banana flour - Mt Uncle's brand. I'm using so little of either I think everything will pass it's Best Before Date well before I get through it! ;) Same as Frou, I noticed a change in the way my body dealt with it's recent flu-like challenge. Less inflammation and no autoimmune pain. Maybe a more 'normal' (and effective?) response? ...I am speculating there, but I have a good feeling about this resistant starch lark... ;)
I have much less muscle contractility as well, which I believe, clearly results from some improvement of the integrity of the intestinal lining. I say this, because I have had much of this for many, many years. In fact the tightness of the anteropelvic region, hips, iliopsoas, IT band, and lumbosacral spine are pretty common with inflammatory bowel diseases. Sacroiliac joint dysfunction is something like 6-10 x's more common in IBS, for example, than the general population.

It started with the low back/sacral area, and it has moved outward from there. In other words, the most dramatic changes have taken place in the soft tissues that surround the lymphatic vessels of the lower intestinal tract, and those networks that extend from there to systemic circulation...basically from the sacroiliac spine to the thoracic spine.

I actually did a month of osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) for this in December/January, which was very helpful, but I wasn't expecting to loosen up so much as I have in the last couple of months. OMT is a fantastic treatment, and may be helpful to some as they try RS, and some of the endotoxins have to make their way through the paraspinal lymphatics.

I actually got a huge dose of brain fog and fatigue the day following the "adjustment," to my spine. My therapist acted like I was crazy when I explained that I felt he likely corrected some lymphatic bottleneck, because I had this heavy brain fog and fatigue for a day or so afterward. When he did this, however, my lower back almost immediately stopped contracting after having been in that state for years.
 

Asklipia

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@Vegas Thank you so much for taking the time to write those elaborate posts. I feel that understanding precisely what is happening is one way to clear all that fog, even physical fog. When I can concentrate and direct the light of the mind on something, I can feel it dissolving.
There are many ways to attack this disease, and understanding it better is for me a very efficient way to help it disappear. You have done a lot to help. Thank you!! :):thumbsup::)

And my thanks go too to @Ripley who has brought the subject. Giving hope, which is essential (don't forget the placebo effect!) and offering readymade information for a start for those who do not have the strength to search. Without you we would have come to this most probably much later. Saving us time, saving us life. My thoughts are blessing you. :thumbsup::balloons::thumbsup:

And as many thanks and blessings to all of us who contribute to this thread, with their words and offering their experiences on their bodies. We are doing something important here. May all the sufferers be better soon!
Lots of good wishes to all. :angel::thumbsup::angel:

Another effect of PS : a tsunami of gratitude.
I'll never look at psychiatric problems the same way from now on.
All these poor people in the madhouses. For there is no other word for those hospitals. Let's hope that what we do here will seep into many other areas of medicine.

Soon.

Lots of good wishes to all,
Asklipia
I notice that this was my 500th post on PR. Thanks also to the moderators who are tirelessly proving a place for us to express ourselves. GREAT WORK!!!! May they be all cured soon!
 

knackers323

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I read this somewhere before but now can't find it.

Has anyone seen added benifit from adding psyllium husk to the starch?

What is the ratio?

Thanks
 

adreno

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I'm thinking pantethine might be helpful for countering the negative effects of endotoxins, it seems it inhibits hypercoagulation and protects the BBB:

Pantethine modulates one of the early steps of the inflammation–coagulation cascade, the transbilayer translocation of phosphatidylserine at the cell surface, and in this way lowers platelet response to activation by thrombin and collagen and decreases circulating endothelial microparticles and preserves BBB integrity
Protection against cerebral malaria by the low-molecular-weight thiol pantethine
 

Sidereal

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Sorry one of those long posts:

I think knowing a bit more about the tryptophan metabolism helps understand the bigger picture, the inter-related nature of biological processes, and how this all relates to exposure to gram negative bacteria.
Spectacular post. :thumbsup: Some people find it easier to think in pictures. I found this nice diagram of tryptophan metabolism on one of @Radio 's threads.

 

Violeta

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I am also concerned about histamines. When I started taking high dose thiamine therapy last July, along with energy that i haven't seen in years came chronic hives. After much research I decided the hives were histamine related.

I know I have a leaky gut so I am on a quest to solve that. I just started taking the RS so don't know if that will help. I have also tried L-glutamine for the hives and that does help but they never completely went away.

Unfortunately, after reading this entire thread, I am confused as to how much potato starch to take and how often. Part of me just wants to take the massive doses and weather the storm.

The effect of the thiamine on my energy has reduced. So I am stopping the thiamine supplements for a couple of weeks to see if the hives go away and if they will give me a boost when I start up again. As always I am doing too many things to feel better and I won't be able to tell what worked...the lack of thiamine or the RS.

Lynn
I know what you mean about wanting to take massive doses, but Vegas is right about pushing through not really helping short term or in the long run.

Here's a link to an article by a D.C. about the immune system.
http://livingwellnessblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/am-i-th1-or-th2-or-th17/

He explains the different branches, and then further down he explains that you actually want to quiet down your immune system, and after it's quiet, to keep it settled down.

Of course we don't want to go into denial about pathogens, and I think the doctor in this video actually found a natural substance that covers all the bases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

Don't be put off by the title, Autism Brain allergy, that's the context he's studying immune system reactions. The natural substance is named at the end, if you're like me and can't wait to get to the good part.
 
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froufox

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If somewhere along the way your immune system became toward the Th2 branch, adrenals, the Th1 branch is much less effective at dealing with pathogens. The Th2 branch being overstimulated, you will have more allergic reactions, histamine release, the adrenals trying to keep up with it all, and then eventually being worn out.

If the resistant starch is in some way reactivating the Th1 branch of the immune system, that might take some load off the Th2 branch, relieving chronic fatigue and ME symptoms.

Which makes me wonder how much of Chronic fatigue and ME symptoms are caused by histamines.

I have read others say the same thing that you say in your statement, Froufox, "I should clarify a bit more...even though I had a very strong immune reaction, it definitely felt like a positive thing one on level as I very rarely get flu type symptoms and when I do, my ME symptoms abate somewhat, and that happened on this occasion too, so obviously it was reawakening part of my immune system that is normally very suppressed. Even though I felt pretty rough with the flu, my fatigue was not as severe and my brain was less inflamed (which is one of my worst symptoms by far),"

If I didn't lose you yet, there was another interesting thing that I saw on a different forum here about someone taking B12 and methylfolate and seeing the return of Parkinsonian symptoms. This makes me wonder what part B12 and/or methylfolate have in the balance of the immune system, and what part histamines play in Parkinson's and other "diseases" of the brain?

Hi Violeta, yes definitely think that the balance between the 2 arms of the immune system had changed, as my body maybe started to go after the intracellular infections and also perhaps because the Tregs/TH17 that are involved regulating that balance is also dysfunctional that reaction gets out of control?? I must say that always find vitamin A eg (in cod liver oil) really helps to calm down that inflammation, and sometimes vit D (from sunlight) helps too.

Influence of Dietary Components on Regulatory T Cells
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276397/

Also re what Vegas says re the kynurenine pathway...i think mine is definitely messed up as i always get really bad depression when i have die-off reactions, its really hard to cope with sometimes, argh! :bang-head: I think that IL-6 and TNF@ must be elevated too as that is linked to depression isnt it...my IL-6 was elevated just after I finished taking GcMAF (and that made me severely depressed).

Yes presumably histamine and other inflammatory molecules are involved.

I saw something on Ben Lynch's website about Methyfolate & B12 inducing Parkinson symptoms...

http://mthfr.net/taking-folate-and-feeling-badly-methylation-requires-balance/2011/11/15/
 
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xjhuez

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I read this somewhere before but now can't find it.

Has anyone seen added benifit from adding psyllium husk to the starch?

What is the ratio?

Thanks
I take 2g of psyllium with 15-45g of potato starch (I take the large dose 2/week) with breakfast. It's not something I added for the purpose of augmenting the PS - I've been taking psyllium with every meal for years now.
 
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Spectacular post. :thumbsup: Some people find it easier to think in pictures. I found this nice diagram of tryptophan metabolism on one of @Radio 's threads.

Radio:

Mitochondrial damage is a normal part of aging, but is accelerated in many metabolic disorders. Chronic deficiencies and gut imbalances can destroys the mitochondrial membranes and lead to the modern diseases we see today.

Intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) can be the underlying cause for many of the symptoms associated with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.These bacteria can be aerobic as well as anaerobic. SIBO can lead to a overproduction and absorption of toxins such as D-lactic acide, Tyramine, Tartaric acid, Hydrogen sulfide as well as Endotoxins. This can impair the brain causing fatigue and many other nervous system mitochondrial dysfunctions. Bacterial cellular debris can stimulate the production of endogenous interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor. LPS can cause inflammation and mitochondrial impairment. Bacteria and yeast overgrowth can also produce hydrogen sulfide (H2S) that can bind to the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase, part of the electron transport chain. This can also impair oxidative phosphorylation and ATP production. Hydrogen sulfide is a neurotoxin and metabolic poison and can cause fatigue, muscle pain and dyscognition. These bacteria imbalances can produce tryptophanase which can digests tryptophan that is the main building block for serotonin and ultimately melatonin. Tryptophan depletion leads to melatonin deficiency which in turn leads to sleep disturbances, mitochondrial impairment and oxidative stress as well as muscle fatigue. Finally these bacterial overgrowths can also produces D-lactic acid which is a neurotoxin as well as a metabolic poison in abnormal amounts. The main focus is to prevent Apoptosis (cell death) and it's imperative that we start mitochondria supportive therapy and identify and treat gut imbalances as well as intracellular deficiencies.


Tryptophan / NAD+ Deficiency
Viruses, bacteria imbalances and mineral imbalances as well as HCL / Bile acids
insufficiency can affect the NAD Synthesis. This is the reason why it's import to bypass the depleted NAD+ synthesis. Tryptophan, Nicotinamide, NAD, NADH, can all help as well as R- lipoic acid can also compensate by recycling NAD+.






Radio:
We have discovered that supplementing with HCL / Bile acids is a key factor in controlling dysbiosis. This concludes my broadcast for now. :balanced: Pay it forward and never give up!
 
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Vegas

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I'm thinking pantethine might be helpful for countering the negative effects of endotoxins, it seems it inhibits hypercoagulation and protects the BBB:



Protection against cerebral malaria by the low-molecular-weight thiol pantethine
Good suggestion, but I will caution that Pantethine is readily incorporated to form Coenzyme A, which is going to effect some processes that can cause some people, a few problems. The positive contributions are many, especially as it relates to lipid and sterol synthesis.

The tricky part is that Co-A has a sulfhydryl group and can affect some processes that can cause some unfavorable symptoms, in some. By taking Pantethine instead of B5, one would be circumventing a big part of the chemical process, which is rate-limiting for Co-A biosynthesis because one would be directly supplementing pantethine downstream from the rate-limiting phosphorylation reaction. Generally, this is not such a bad thing, because this pathway is very sensitive to lipid oxidation. By this, I mean that the flow will shift towards sterol and lipid synthesis, which should be beneficial. (As you know, Pantethine has also been shown to have fairly strong associations with improving lipid profiles.)

The problem, which can arise is that this influences the cysteine pathways, which produce hydrogen sulfide. The provision of Co-A is thus spares cysteine, which will be available for synthesis of hydrogen sulfide. It seems to do so at a part of the metabolism that significantly influences H2S. H2S of course has a number of useful roles, but if concentrations in the blood rise too high, it produces adverse symptoms. I found that high doses of pantethine, NAC, or MB12 would all produce the exact same effect, terrible, almost debilitating headaches. Of course the commonality is that they raise circulating cysteine or direct more cysteine to H2S synthesis. This is not so much of a problem when cysteine metabolism is limited by other factors, including co-factor availability, cysteine oxidation from ROS/NOS, etc, but this is the reaction that changes over time, with improved redox status and micro-nutrient availability. This is just one of the things people need to look out for as their metabolism starts to become more normal. Symptoms are going to vary as well, since the capacity to produce H2S from cysteine will vary depending upon the tissues where this is synthesized. Of course research into H2S as biomolecule and blood gas messenger is pretty underdeveloped at this time, but it is also of note that high cysteine foods can directly stimulate the synthesis of hydrogen sulfide within the red blood cells. In this regard, high-thiol foods may suggest that there is high H2S bacterial load.

H2S is a very interesting molecule in ME/CFS when we look at it's potential role in mitigating the effects of a bacterial infection. Bacterial H2S appears to have a role in down-regulating the inflammatory response created by exposure to endotoxins. This blood gas can suppress some pro-inflammatory cytokines, so actually having sulfide in the blood likely plays a major role in keeping us alive as it allows us to endure part of the inflammatory response created by the endotoxins. More H2S may translate to severe symptoms, but it also appears that it may be life-sustaining in so far as it suppresses the inflammatory response we otherwise would mount without the H2S. Perhaps, those of us who have high levels of SRB don't want to interfere too much in the cysteine metabolism, and simply work on reducing concentrations indirectly by nurturing our own commensal organisms.

Of course too much H2S is not good, as is too little. I think back to the time that my glucose metabolism started to decline despite the fact that I had no evidence of metabolic disease, and, according to the endocrinologist, had a remarkable sensitivity to insulin. When I withdrew all those fermentable carbohydrates, my glucose metabolism or glycolysis utterly collapsed in a matter of weeks. In retrospect, what likely happened is that Bifidobacterial organisms and Clostridal species collapsed, but I also think about what organisms must have filled the void, and H2S-synthesizing organisms seem to be uniquely qualified to carry out this role.

The preponderance of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria would seem to be ideally suited to this new, hostile environment since they could passivate an inflammatory response attributable to the presence of gram-negative bacteria. This is of course assuming that other gram-negative organisms predominated in the new and more hostile community that no longer included the same commensal organisms that populated the colon. These H2S emitting organisms are also very efficient at reducing lactate, and I think elevated lactate would be one manifestation of the new, hostile microbiome. Also, H2S producing organisms may have also served to stabilize energy metabolism, or at least carbohydrate metabolism because hydrogen sulfide stimulates glucose transporter molecule (GLUT4). This is protein which transports glucose from the blood to the tissues, and is of considerable interest now in the study of metabolic disease.

Pantethine is probably going to be o.k. for most. I used to love that stuff, it is Bifidogenic, it is useful in many ways. One of the really cool things it can do is boost CoQ-10 biosynthesis since it is used as a co-factor in the TCA at succinate, of course if you have high lactate/pyruvate, it serves as a cofactor here as well. I think it would be used more commonly for lipid lowering, had it been a substance that could be patented. There is just no economic incentive for the drug companies, and we know that medicine is dominated by script writing. It is sort of like the anti-statin in that it improves lipids and CoQ-10 simultaneously. I would take it again myself, if it didn't give me headaches.
 

Vegas

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Radio:

Mitochondrial damage is a normal part of aging, but is accelerated in many metabolic disorders. Chronic deficiencies and gut imbalances can destroys the mitochondrial membranes and lead to the modern diseases we see today.

Intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) can be the underlying cause for many of the symptoms associated with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.These bacteria can be aerobic as well as anaerobic. SIBO can lead to a overproduction and absorption of toxins such as D-lactic acide, Tyramine, Tartaric acid, Hydrogen sulfide as well as Endotoxins. This can impair the brain causing fatigue and many other nervous system mitochondrial dysfunctions. Bacterial cellular debris can stimulate the production of endogenous interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor. LPS can cause inflammation and mitochondrial impairment. Bacteria and yeast overgrowth can also produce hydrogen sulfide (H2S) that can bind to the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase, part of the electron transport chain. This can also impair oxidative phosphorylation and ATP production. Hydrogen sulfide is a neurotoxin and metabolic poison and can cause fatigue, muscle pain and dyscognition. These bacteria imbalances can produce tryptophanase which can digests tryptophan that is the main building block for serotonin and ultimately melatonin. Tryptophan depletion leads to melatonin deficiency which in turn leads to sleep disturbances, mitochondrial impairment and oxidative stress as well as muscle fatigue. Finally these bacterial overgrowths can also produces D-lactic acid which is a neurotoxin as well as a metabolic poison in abnormal amounts. The main focus is to prevent Apoptosis (cell death) and it's imperative that we start mitochondria supportive therapy and identify and treat gut imbalances as well as intracellular deficiencies.


Tryptophan / NAD+ Deficiency
Viruses, bacteria imbalances and mineral imbalances as well as HCL insufficiency can affect the NAD Synthesis. This is the reason why it's import to supplement to bypass the depleted NAD+ synthesis. Tryptophan, Nicotinamide, NAD, NADH, R- lipoic acid can help compensate for the NAD+ deficiency.
Quite a complicated picture, with a bit of a chess game being played by bacterial and host interactions. As a general rule, I wouldn't recommend supplementing quite so generically as above.
 
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Sushi

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Another purely anecdotal report: yesterday I thought I had gone over the edge with physical activity and that I had really let myself in for a big dose of PEM. I had done some computer work, gone to a meeting, then spent over an hour plant shopping at a big garden store.

Well, I should have quit then, right? :cool:

Well I didn't. I wanted to put those suckers in the ground so spent a couple of hours digging, dragging huge bags of mulch around, watering etc. I felt kinda bad after that but woke up today fine! :thumbsup:

Sushi
 

Violeta

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Hi Violeta, yes definitely think that the balance between the 2 arms of the immune system had changed, as my body maybe started to go after the intracellular infections and also perhaps because the Tregs/TH17 that are involved regulating that balance is also dysfunctional that reaction gets out of control?? I must say that always find vitamin A eg (in cod liver oil) really helps to calm down that inflammation, and sometimes vit D (from sunlight) helps too.

Influence of Dietary Components on Regulatory T Cells
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276397/

Also re what Vegas says re the kynurenine pathway...i think mine is definitely messed up as i always get really bad depression when i have die-off reactions, its really hard to cope with sometimes, argh! :bang-head: I think that IL-6 and TNF@ must be elevated too as that is linked to depression isnt it...my IL-6 was elevated just after I finished taking GcMAF (and that made me severely depressed).

Yes presumably histamine and other inflammatory molecules are involved.

I saw something on Ben Lynch's website about Methyfolate & B12 inducing Parkinson symptoms...

http://mthfr.net/taking-folate-and-feeling-badly-methylation-requires-balance/2011/11/15/
I will have to read up on Th17 and also kynurenine pathway. I get bad depression when I don't feel good; I'll have to try to figure out if when that happens if it's die-off or not. I went for many years never having any ups. Depression can be worse than physical pain. Wow, so GcMAF elevated your IL-6, do you know why?

I went to that link by Ben Lynch, it's from 2011! That's terrible that that information is a little blogpost from 2011 and no one ever made it well known that methylfolate and B12 induce Parkinson symptoms! I'm not satisfied with his response; it's too lame.

Is there anything we can do that won't stir things up and make things worse?

Have you listened to the videos about mast cell activation being related to chronic fatigue?
 
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I will have to read up on Th17 and also kynurenine pathway. I get bad depression when I don't feel good; I'll have to try to figure out if when that happens if it's die-off or not. I went for many years never having any ups. Depression can be worse than physical pain. Wow, so GcMAF elevated your IL-6, do you know why?

I went to that link by Ben Lynch, it's from 2011! That's terrible that that information is a little blogpost from 2011 and no one ever made it well known that methylfolate and B12 induce Parkinson symptoms! I'm not satisfied with his response; it's too lame.

Is there anything we can do that won't stir things up and make things worse?

Have you listened to the videos about mast cell activation being related to chronic fatigue?


Radio:
Many subgroups with chronic infection- including SIBO and H.pylori can have overactive TH2 cytokine response.


IL-12 & IgA for Mucosal Immunity
The skin and mucus membranes are the body’s primary barrier to keep out unwanted pathogens. An open cut and/or a leaky gut is like a fortress with an open door. Viruses, fungus bacteria, parasites, etc have easy access to get inside. Il-12 stimulates Killer T cells in the mucus membranes to stop viral invasions before they get enter the body. Restoring normal IgA in the mucus membranes is also critical to help reduce infectious agents, foods and chemical entry into the body. Clearly restoring mucosal immunity is a critical first step to take in immune restoration.

The epithelium (mucus membranes) of the intestines are a fine filter to let nutrients in and keep out unusable food particles. When pathogens like certain bacteria, candida albicans, parasites, etc., replicate in or on the mucus membranes, they inflame the epithelium and create a leaky gut that allows byproducts of faulty digestion to enter the blood. This triggers an antibody response (Th2) that weakens the cell-mediated immune response systematically (Th1). This is the basis of a leaky gut (increased intestinal permeability) discussed in more detail in another webpage.

Multiple studies show that high levels of IgA and CD8 Killer T cells in the mucus membranes of the colon or/and vagina increase the resistance to viral and bacterial infections. To increase the CD8 Killer T cells in the mucus membranes and throughout the body, Th-1 promoters need to be induced with resultant IgA, IL-12, and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma) production - the key cytokines for restoring mucosal and systemic cellular immunity.

FACTORS THAT INCREASE Th2 CYTOKINES
The three most common factors that drive Th2 cytokine responses are:

1. Faulty digestion leading to absorption of partially digested and unusable proteins and other food particles (increases IgG and IgE antibody responses that are directed against these foreign food particles). This is the condition called leaky gut due to increased intestinal permeability. Instead of the intestines serving as a barrier to the outside world, it allows an excessive amount of particles to be presented to the body through a non-physiologic entryway. Just as if you entered a home with a security system through a window, the alarm is triggered and you are alerted to a foreign invader. The result is a recruitment of police and other protective mechanisms, in the case of the food this represents the immune system. Proper digestion, a balance of friendly supportive bacteria, and a healthy gastrointestinal lining create a strong barrier to improper entry. Likewise, use of digestive enzymes, eating slowly mixing lots of saliva with food, avoiding over-eating or processed foods that are difficult to digest, anti-microbial therapy, etc. are necessary components to establishing immune balance. To emphasize the importance of proper digestion is the fact that the largest immune organ in the body is the gastrointestinal tract. See more here. http://www.drkaslow.com/html/immune_restoration.html



H-pylori-Hypochlorhydria-Dysbiosis-Liver-CFS/ME-Connection

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...dria-dysbiosis-liver-cfs-me-connection.28937/

Kynurenine Pathway Metabolites in Humans: Disease and Healthy States

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http://www.la-press.com/redirect_file.php?fileId=1868&filename=IJTR-2-Guillemin-et-al&fileType=pdf&ei=M3HLUtauJobfsASmpoLQDQ&usg=AFQjCNFEpPCWbRBqRfKZX3PYzI2IcmtFlg&sig2=BdUNdAknPb76k-zC9PLmzQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cWc
 
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