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H.pylori-Hypochlorhydria-Dysbiosis-Liver-CFS/ME Connection

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Radio, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Radio

    Radio *****

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    The CFS/ME puzzle...
    I think Fred Davis is on point with regards to methylation. RichVank did understand that there was more to this syndrome than just a methylation block and glutathione depletion.

    The missing link to CFS/ME puzzle in my opinion is Hypochlorhydria / Dysbiosis and the domino affects goes on and on and on. I also believe we have a weak liver genotype that contributes to these matrix of deficiencies. Yes we have a disease my friends, that not only damages the mitochondria cells. It also affects the kidney, brain and liver as well.


    Hypochlorhydria + Dysbiosis = Acquired Mitochondrial Disease



    Hydrochloric acid insufficiency could be the main contributing factor to the bacteria over-growth we are seeing and dramatically reduce stomach acid production. I believe we have genetic factors as well as environmental issues that make us vulnerable to this illness.


    Can Helicobacter pylori cause low stomach acid?



    H-pylori is a deep rooted infection that is very hard to eradicate. H-pylori can lead to a Gastritis inflammation of the stomach lining that can also develop into hypochlorhydria that can deplete the stomach ability to produce hydrochloric acid. We need stomach acid to protect and heal and repair the body. The research I have done has pointed to poor liver function and low stomach acid as risk factors in many chronic illnesses we see today.


    Can Hypochlorhydria / HCL insufficiency be related to silent organ damage?



    I am convinced that the toxic waste produced by the dysbiosis imbalance can be very damaging, especially when we are not methylating RNA, DNA and phosphatidylcholine. HCL insufficiency can cause minerals and lipids to be deficient. Also, manganese, zinc and choline are essential for the health of the liver and the mitochondria function. The body needs (HCL) to achieve the correct (pH) flora balance. Stomach acid is also required to liberate vitamin B12 from food. There are also many genetic variations that contribute to the liver detoxification capacity that could be a factor.



    Radio: What can cause the Hypochlorhydria problem?




    Hypochlorhydria?





    Stomach acid assessment

    http://www.drdebe.com/self-tests/stomach-acid-assessment
    Salivary test for Hypochlorhydria
    http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Vascular_endothelial_growth_factor_(VEGF)-_salivary_test_for_hypochlorhydria
    Hypochlorhydria lack of stomach acid - can cause lots of problems
    http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Hypochlorhydria_-_lack_of_stomach_acid_ _can_cause_lots_of_problems
    Hypochlorhydria: A Review, parts 1 & 2
    http://drmanlove.com/diet-and-nutrition-articles/low-stomach-acid.html
    Gastritis / Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastritis
    Atrophic gastritis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrophic_gastritis













    Radio: How can we test for gastritis?






    Radio: What are H.Pylori main symptoms?






    Radio: How can H.pylori damage the body?






    Radio: Can H.pylori cause mineral depletion?



    Get the right H. pylori test

    http://www.ulcer-cure.com/index.php/h-pylori/all-about-h-pylori/getting-an-accurate-h-pylori-test





    Radio: How can H.pylori affect the biochemical process in the body?




    Helicobacter Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori




    Radio: What is stomach acid role in beneficial bacteria?







    Radio: Can gut micro-imbalances contribute to liver disease?




    The Intestinal Microbiota and Liver Disease

    http://www.nature.com/ajgsup/journal/v1/n1/full/ajgsup20123a.html
    The-gut-microbiota-and-the-liver pdf
    http://doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/The-gut-microbiota-and-the-liverjhep5.13.pdf




    Radio: Can a choline deficiency contribute to fatty liver disease?





    Radio: Please check out this diagram

    http://www.nature.com/nrgastro/journal/v7/n12/fig_tab/nrgastro.2010.172_F1.html




    Choline Metabolism Provides Novel Insights into Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and its Progression
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601486/
    CFS-me-as-a-liver-issue
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/cfs-me-as-a-liver-issue.18776/




    Radio: Is there a silent liver disease connection?




    Radio: A bacterial overgrowth can also produce histamine, hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen peroxide, tryptophanase, d-lactic acid and endotoxins. This could be a possible contributing factor to the acquired mitochondrial disease and silent organ damage.





    Fatty liver

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_liver
    Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_fatty_liver_disease
    Downregulation of Hepatic Glucose-6-Phosphatase-α in Patients With Hepatic Steatosis
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2011.118/full
    Detoxification (The Liver)
    http://www.gilbertssyndrome.com/detoxification.php
    How-I-Recovered-From-CFS-part 2
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs-part-2.28684/
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  2. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Radio: (Warning COM +/+ mutation), HCL Betaine is a methyl donor.



    4 Common Betaine HCl Mistakes

    http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/10/4-common-betaine-hcl-mistakes/







    Radio: Liver Testing info

    Liver function tests
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_function_tests
    Comprehensive Detoxification Profile
    http://www.completehealthinstitute.com/SiteFiles/Laboratory_Test/gi_Detoxification_Profile.php
    Detoxi-Genomic-Test-Description.pdf
    http://www.gdx.net/core/one-page-test-descriptions/Detoxi-Genomic-Test-Description.pdf




    Radio: Dysbiosis Links and Research


    Bacterial, Fungal & Parasitic Overgrowth

    http://www.medicalinsider.com/bacterial.html

    Increased D-Lactic Acid Intestinal Bacteriain Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

    http://www.cfids-cab.org/rc/Sheedy.pdf

    d-Lactate in Human and Ruminant Metabolism
    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/7/1619.full

    Mycoplasma blood infection in chronic fatigueand fibromyalgia syndromes

    www.cfids-cab.org/cfs-inform/Mycoplasma/endresen03.pdf

    Hydrogen sulfide theory and gut dysbiosis:
    http://phoenixrising.me/wp-content/uploads/H2S1.pdf



    Disclaimer
    The information on this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only. You should not rely upon any information found on this thread to determine dietary changes, a medical diagnosis or course of treatment. Readers should perform their own research and make decisions in partnership with their own health care providers.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    leela likes this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    What the hell is this thread about? It seems like a more or less random collection of stuff about the liver that you have cut and pasted into this forum.
  4. Radio

    Radio *****

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    The Liver Connection

    I should not even respond to your rude post. But, I will to help others understand. I am convinced that the toxic waste produced by the dysbiosis imbalance can be very damaging, especially when we are not methylating RNA, DNA and phosphatidylcholine. Also, manganese and zinc deficiencies can possibly cause a choline deficiency. Choline is essential for the health of the liver and mitochondria. There are many genetic variations that contribute to the liver detoxification capacity.


    Sweet-truth-about-liver-and-egg-yolks
    http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/11/sweet-truth-about-liver-and-egg-yolks.html
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It was not intend to be rude, but rather express my poor brain's general exhausted reaction to trying to grasp the meaning of reams of quoted text with no clear written guidance on why it is quoted.

    People are not telepathic. It helps if you explain what you are trying to say, rather than assume the reader guess the context from the particular items you quote.

    Remember, most people with ME/CFS have brain fog, and often find it hard to follow even clearly written text.

    Two or three paragraphs of written text by you, clearly explaining what you are saying, are worth far more that these reams of quoted text, that many people with ME/CFS brain fog are not going to be able to follow or penetrate.

    I have brain fog plus ADHD, making particularly hard for me to follow such volumes of information, when no guidance is given.

    I am sure others here will also find it hard.


    I should add that I know you are trying to help people, and this is appreciated.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
    xchocoholic likes this.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hip summed up what I was thinking.

    This thread needs a simple summary statement.

    The part about h pylori in particular didn't seem to fit. I didn't get h pylori until a couple of years ago, labs prove this, but my liver has been challenged for longer.
    I have / had dysbiosis.

    Thanks for trying tho. X
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @Radio

    Hi Radio,

    I think this thread would be a lot clearer with proper attribution embedded in each quote. At the moment it is not clear what came from where.

    Best,
    Sushi
    Radio likes this.
  8. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Hey X,


    Most people are infected with h pylori as a kid and up to 85% of people infected with H. pylori never experience symptoms. Please take some time and study Amy Yasko work on this subject.




    Get the right H. pylori test

    http://www.ulcer-cure.com/index.php/h-pylori/all-about-h-pylori/getting-an-accurate-h-pylori-test
    See more about H-pylori info at, http://www.mygutsy.com/is-h-pylori-...sorders-adrenal-fatigue/#sthash.1KzwEYym.dpuf
    Helicobacter Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    xchocoholic likes this.
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I had the Metametrix stool test before, during and after. These showed 0, mega, and gone. My integrative doctor is very thorough.

    Sometimes when you're making a point, less info is better. Fwiw, I used to post threads like this too when I was brainstorming. My original thread on OI in 2007? probably drove people crazy.
    ;)

    Tc ... x
  10. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    @Radio I do agree that these posts are very difficult to read and hard to follow. It would be nice to have a brief synopsis in your own words with a few links to relevant articles. I think a few members here have posted this and it appears to be very frustrating for some. Short and sweet is really helpful.

    I understand liver problems/gut issues etc but I am not sure how it all ties in to ME. I have worked with quite a few patients in my time with various stages of liver disease that resulted in quite serious fatigue but not what you would call ME -- eg., absence of PEM/PENE, no sleep issues and recovery after treatment. Liver disease is clearly a distinct diagnosis. Both my liver and gut are fine, yet I remain ill. I cleared up my gut issues on my own through trial and error, I was so hoping I would feel significantly better - but no. I am not sure if you are saying liver dysfunction and dysbiosis cause ME or contribute to making it worse. Clear as mud. It's all very complicated and I am pretty sure if you have liver disease, gut issues etc, they might radically exacerbate ME symptoms.
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @Radio
    Agree, less is more when you are posting for brain-fogged members.

    Sushi
    xchocoholic likes this.
  12. Radio

    Radio *****

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    I've had brain fog for many years before I changed my diet and balanced my gut dysfunction. I do understand what it feels like to have these limitations. I will try and keep my threads more on point. :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  13. Radio

    Radio *****

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    7 Foods to Maximize Liver Health & Function
    Hanna likes this.
  14. Radio

    Radio *****

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    The 7 Keys To My Recovery

    1. Functional Medicine Practitioner (Laboratory Testing / Protocol Support)

    2. Modified Paleo Diet + (Glycogen Supportive Foods) + (Beneficial Fermented Substrates)

    3. Balance gut organisms (H-pylori / Dysbiosis Support) + (HCL / Digestive Aid)

    4. Mitochondria Support (Lipid Replacement Therapy) + (CoQ-10 Ubiquinol / Vitamin E Support)

    5. Methylation / Mineral Support (Fred Davis' protocol) + (SAMe / Vitamin D Support)

    6.
    Liver Detoxification / PST Sulfation / Sulfate Support) + (Comprehensive Liver Testing)

    7. Spiritual Support


    Radio Note: I wanted to add that this is a simplified assessment of the road to my recovery. I know there will be subgroup who will need extensive testing and treatment of chronic infections and environmental toxins. My mitochondria trigger was combination of a toxic exposure and physical exertion that develop into CFS. Also, Hereditary hemochromatosis, also known as iron overload disease needs to be tested for as well.

    Please see more at:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs-part-2.28684/


    Radio:
    Please watch these videos on gut dysfunction and dysbiosis. Also, I have restructured my thread to make it easier for forum members to understand this connection.













    Radio: Please research Dr. Alex Vasquez per-review work on dysbiosis, inflammation and chronic health problems.


    Alex Vasquez, D.C., N.D.

    http://www.academia.edu/3862817/Nut...etal_Inflammation_and_Chronic_Health_Problems
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  15. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Niacin (Nicotinic Acid) a PutativeTreatmentfor Hypochlorhydria: Re-analysis of Two Case Reports
    http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2002/pdf/2002-v17n03-p163.pdf



    The Invisible Universe Of The Human Microbiome ~ Ben Arthur




    Gut bugs misbehaving?
    http://phoenixrising.me/archives/20926
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  16. Radio

    Radio *****

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    H.pylori-Hypochlorhydria-Dysbiosis-Liver-CFS/ME Connection?


    I believe we have genetic factors as well as environmental issues that make us vulnerable to this illness. The root cause of this conundrum in my opinion is inflammation of the stomach lining that develops into hypochlorhydria, depleting the stomach ability to produce hydrochloric acid. HCL insufficiency could be the main contributing factor to the bacteria over-growth problem. We need the correct gut pH to balance and maintain intestinal flora. I am now advocating that everyone in this forum be tested for Autoimmune Atrophic Gastritis. The Antiparietal and anti-IF antibodies test is a simple easy blood test you can have done by your primary care physician. I'm also recommending the Endoscopy procedure for people with a history of H.pylori infection and hypothyroidism. We need to challenge ourselves and ask the right questions in order to have a better understanding of the root cause of this Acquired Mitochondrial Disease.



    Radio: What is Atrophic Gastritis?





    Radio: How can we test for gastritis?






    Hypochlorhydria + Dysbiosis + Chronic inflammation = Acquired Mitochondrial Disease
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  17. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Radio: How to we treat Gastritis?






    Radio: Note
    We need to identify and treat H-pylori and gastritis first, before we can implement HCL therapy. COMT +/+ could benefit from bitters, enzymes and other beneficial natural strategies.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  18. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Bile acids are also important contributing factor in maintaining the correct gut pH balance and controlling the intestinal flora over-growth. Cholesterol is also needed in bile acid production. My new research is pointing to problems with cholesterol / bile metabolism as a possible key missing co-factor in the progression of chronic disease.



    In the absence of Bile, bacteria and other microbes such as yeasts and fungi are able to flourish. Bile has a Bactericidal effect which helps to keep the small intestine somewhat sanitized.


    Bile acid / Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid


    Disclaimer
    The information on this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only. You should not rely upon any information found on this thread to determine dietary changes, a medical diagnosis or course of treatment. Readers should perform their own research and make decisions in partnership with their own health care providers.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  19. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Radio: The next step in my recovery was: Mitochondria Support (Lipid Replacement Therapy) + (CoQ-10 Ubiquinol / Vitamin E Support)


    Lipid replacement therapy can potentially help everyone in this forum. It does not matter which subgroup of CFS/ME you are in. The core of the problem has always been acquired mitochondrial damage. Repairing the Mitochondrial is the first step in healing. This is one of the missing links in the chain to recovery. At this point, the fact is, we need mitochondrial support. The main focus is to prevent Apoptosis cell death and it's imperative that we start mitochondria supportive therapy at the on set of CFS/ME.


    The Mitochondria can becomes damaged and leaky from an overload of metabolic waste. Phospholipids and glycolipids can repair cellular membranes by increasing cell membrane fluidity. By repairing these membranes we allow our cells to increase their nutrient uptake so that the mitochondria may product more ATP.


    Acquired mitochondrial damage is a normal part of aging, but is accelerated in chronic fatigue syndrome and many other metabolic disorders. We must address this before complete healing can be initiated. Phospholipids replacement therapy and eating a super clean diet is the first critical steps in repairing this damage. Chronic deficiencies and methylation factors as well as gut imbalances destroys the mitochondrial membranes and lead to the modern day diseases we see today.



    Radio: This concludes my broadcast for now :balanced: Pay it forward and never give up!



    See more at:
    Reverse-Mitochondrial-Damage-101
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/reverse-mitochondrial-dama
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  20. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

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    Well, on top of the ME/CFS, the Lyme, the off-the-charts EBV titres, and the MTHFR mutation, and after years of testing severely deficient on B-12, I just tested positive for anti-parietal cell antibodies which means possible pernicious anemia.

    Now what?

    I'm really worried. I feel my health continues on a free-fall, no matter what I do. :(
    Valentijn likes this.

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