The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[SDSue]

I might just try that too. I'll use olive oil maybe. But it takes me a while to get up the strength to implement anything.
Have you been also following the Clostridium thread @SDSue?

I am! I’m up to one Miyarisan pill daily and will hold there for a few more weeks. It’s the main reason I’m looking for a resistant starch other than unmodified potato. Just did my IgG allergies, and found I’m allergic to all the mainstays in my diet, including white potatoes.

 

[ahmo]

I avoid rice and potato due to gluten cross-reactivity. I'm now using green banana. I dice the hard green banana into my bowl, then pour hot broth over it. I would never eat it plain. When they're organic, I leave the skin on. My inspiration was vids of Carribean banana pancakes, leaving the skin on and throwing the whole bananas into a blender. http://freetheanimal.com/2014/02/bananas-resistant-starch.html

 

[SDSue]

@ahmo I literally just added

I avoid rice and potato due to gluten cross-reactivity. I'm now using green banana. I dice the hard green banana into my bowl, then pour hot broth over it. I would never eat it plain. When they're organic, I leave the skin on. My inspiration was vids of Carribean banana pancakes, leaving the skin on and throwing the whole bananas into a blender. http://freetheanimal.com/2014/02/bananas-resistant-starch.html

Would you mind explaining your method a bit more? I’m confused. You pour what type of broth over it? and then, do you let it cook, or just let it soften? When you eat it, do you have to chew a lot? Or is it soft enough to glide down? To be honest it sounds horrible lol. But as sick as we are, who cares about that!

 

[ahmo]

It absolutely sounds horrible!! My meals are bone broth + fat primarily. I have added the banana to the pot while heating the soup, but was concerned that this was decreasing the rs properties. I might be wrong. It does soften by the time I'm actually eating it, it's pretty much like eating potato. It can be bitter if the piece is too big and hasn't softened at all. Doesn't need too much chewing. And it could easily glide down.

But as sick as we are, who cares about that!

 

[Gondwanaland]

I leave the skin on

You mean you are eating the banana peel???

 

[ahmo]

You mean you are eating the banana peel???

Yep I figure that if green bananas, rather than ripe, is the go, then the skin must have something to offer. When my bananas are commercial, I peel the skin, but just the outer skin, leaving the fibrous layer which normally comes away with the skin. It was only after watching the vid with a Jamaican woman putting whole banana chunks into her blender that I decided to do this.I live in a banana-growing area, so theoretically it's easy to get green bananas. Although the major supermarkets only tend to put fairly ripe ones out. I just found a local small grower source of what we call sugar bananas, smaller, more starchy.

I've been thinking that if I ate differently, that is, cooked for real, it would be easy to add the chunks, with or without skin, to eg. a stir-fry, or any other sort of dish, shortly before it's completely cooked. I'll have to now dos some research to see what the skin offers.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Do you let it cool for 24h before eating? What about the latex in the peel? How do you feel after eating this potion?

 

[ahmo]

No, I'm dicing the banana into my bowl, pouring in the hot soup. I feel fine, full after eating it. It's far more starch than I've been consuming for 3 years. Latex doesn't seem to be a problem. Though it can taste a bit bitter. But not as bitter as the greens I used to eat, eg mustard or Asian greens. When I ask my body, it prefers with skin to without. go figure.

Here's the vid that inspired me to use the whole thing. Green banana porridge, not pancake. [sometimes embed code only for youtubve just doesn't work. sorry to have the whole vid here.]

on a lighter, and practical note, here's how to peel a banana like a pro, a monkey.

 

[alicec]

Because I have an allergy to white potatoes, I am looking for another way to get resistant starch

I can eat white potatoes but moderate my intake because of their high oxalate content. However there a several other easy sources of the various types of RS. As well as cooked and cooled rice I rely on mung bean noodles (glass noodles), other legumes, green banana, tiger nut, tapioca and chestnut flours baked into muffins (along with whole chestnuts) and tiger nuts as a snack. Yams, sweet potatoes and plantains are also possibilities though I avoid these because of high oxalate content.

I have uploaded a list of selected foods showing RS and inulin content, just to give an idea of relative amounts.

 

[ariel]

@ariel, just wondering if you're still taking this and how it's going.

Hi there.
I actually started another fibre (which again supposedly targets the distal end) a little while after writing that post, and foolishly simply added a little bit of it to the mix I was taking at the time (rather than stopping everything to see how I'd react). The result being a mouth full of ulcers, aching body and feeling like I had reactivated pretty much everything. So I stopped everything for a few weeks.

I've since introduced a half teaspoon of the last fibre I added (which was Synotix / Orafti), plus half a teaspoon of Potato Starch.
This is the Orafti:
http://www.amazon.com/Syontix-Inuli...ie=UTF8&qid=1434931970&sr=8-1&keywords=orafti
It is a long-chain Inulin.
It is also found in the Jarrows Inulin, which I did try early on, but because it is mixed with another inulin they seemed to cancel each other out, or something, I'm really not sure...

There is one theory that it is best for those with overgrowths of negative pathogens to take fibres that target the distal end rather than the proximal end, as there is less chance of the prebiotic feeding the undesirables. That theory is what lead me to trying a bunch which supposedly target the distal end.
Though I have been extremely sensitive to the fibres which do this - in particular the Orafti and the Wheat Dextrin (Benefiber). Others might not be.

As I wrote on the CB thread, I've just started that. I started with 1 tab a day, and stopped the orafti/PS mix. 1 tab is too much, so I've dropped to 1/2 a tab, and have just added in 1 teaspoon of the orafti/PS mix. I'm going to try and stick with this for a bit.

Frankly I can't believe that after one year (!!) of taking all these preboitics and probiotics just how senisitve I still am to them. During that time I have also tried stopping everything to do a few weeks or more or of 'weeding' with various herbals.
The strong reaction to CB has surprised me, but then again I've been surprised by how sensitive I've been to every one of the things I've tried.
It is as though each one is doing something unique, and every part of my GIT needs attention.

So, in answer to your question, I will reintroduce the Wheat Dextrin and PHGG eventually, but first want to let the body get used to the CB, and attempt to increase the amount of Orafti before introducing any other fibres, as clearly the distal end needs some work.

The good thing is that I'm convinced that the microbiome is the way forward for me. Nothing else I've tried so far touches it.

 

[ariel]

@alicec Where are you getting the tiger nuts from? And what are they like?

Also, chestnuts in bananna flour muffins is a good idea. Do you have to roast the chestnuts first?



I never used to have any energy for cooking, but the more this RS thing progresses, the more I'm able, and more than that, the more I'm interested in finding ways to incorporate it.

 

[Sidereal]

It is a long-chain Inulin.
It is also found in the Jarrows Inulin, which I did try early on, but because it is mixed with another inulin they seemed to cancel each other out, or something, I'm really not sure...

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it. Last summer I messed around with inulin for a while thanks to, shall we say, rather forceful delivery of the inulin talking point on a certain blog and some papers I read. I have to say I felt quite good on it initially but after a couple of weeks it caused a fairly major setback. If I recall correctly, the Jarrow product which contains Orafti was somewhat less negative than the short-chain FOS (Nutraflora). I also tried a few other inulin products like chicory and yacon root extracts - same issues. It felt like it was jacking up acetate/acetylcholine too much - agitation and sweating and very light sleep. It didn't feel good.

 

[Sidereal]

Where are you getting the tiger nuts from? And what are they like?

I'm not Alice but I thought I'd chime in with my experience. Any of these paleo-approved sources of fibre were negative for me, and that includes tiger nuts, baobab, inulin etc. Tiger nuts have a pretty unique taste. It's hard to liken it to anything else. They taste very dense and rich, slightly sweet. You can get this stuff on Amazon though I'm not sure if they ship to Australia.

 

[ariel]

I'm not Alice but I thought I'd chime in with my experience. Any of these paleo-approved sources of fibre were negative for me, and that includes tiger nuts, baobab, inulin etc. Tiger nuts have a pretty unique taste. It's hard to liken it to anything else. They taste very dense and rich, slightly sweet. You can get this stuff on Amazon though I'm not sure if they ship to Australia.

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Interesting that you found baobab difficult too.

And will let you know if I ever manage to handle more of the orafti than what I'm currently taking! It might be something to stop and come back to. Hard to tell.

How are you going with the beetroot and seaweeds? I can't quite remember what else you were taking. Perhaps I should be going along route instead...


Edited to add: the Wheat Dextrin (Benefiber) and PH Guar Gum still might be worth you trying, Sidereal. I'm not nearly as good at identifying what exactly each fermentable is triggering in me as you are, plus you are definitely up a notch in sensitivity than I am, but I found each had their place. I found the Benefibre easily locally, so hopefully you'll be able to track it down without the hassle on getting it online.

 

[alicec]

Where are you getting the tiger nuts from? And what are they like?

Also, chestnuts in bananna flour muffins is a good idea. Do you have to roast the chestnuts first?

I got the tiger nuts and tiger nut flour here https://tigernutsusa.com/tiger-nuts

I wouldn't say there wonderful, not nearly as interesting as real nuts, but the taste is pleasant enough, quite chewy and fibrous with a sweetish aftertaste, quite rich. I just eat a small handful every now and then.

I haven't used the chestnuts in the banana muffins, though there's no reason you couldn't. I make two muffin versions, one with bananas, green banana flour plus other things, one with pumpkin, chestnut flour, chestnuts and other things. I've uploaded my recipes. I took a short cut with the chestnuts when I found a cooked peeled vacuum packed product (this is an Australian source of organic chestnuts and chestnut flour but I'm sure something similar would be available in other countries).

 

[Sidereal]

Ok, thanks for the feedback. Interesting that you found baobab difficult too.

And will let you know if I ever manage to handle more of the orafti than what I'm currently taking! It might be something to stop and come back to. Hard to tell.

How are you going with the beetroot and seaweeds? I can't quite remember what else you were taking. Perhaps I should be going along route instead...


Edited to add: the Wheat Dextrin (Benefiber) and PH Guar Gum still might be worth you trying, Sidereal. I'm not nearly as good at identifying what exactly each fermentable is triggering in me as you are, plus you are definitely up a notch in sensitivity than I am, but I found each had their place. I found the Benefibre easily locally, so hopefully you'll be able to track it down without the hassle on getting it online.

You've tried baobab too?

I'm taking a break from everything right now. I just take a smidgen of algae occasionally.

There is some inulin and guar gum in a protein shake I use when I can't swallow normal food.

I think you're right about wheat. A low grain diet is what got me into this horrible mess in the first place. Merely reintroducing grain into the diet last year gave me benefits, possibly even bigger than cooked and cooled RS sources. I'm going to introduce oat bran first.

 

[ariel]

Thanks so much Alice. You've inspired me to bake some more muffins tomorrow. Sweet, without the fresh banana and hopefully with some chestnuts that I happen have lying around. Might be a bit weird... ah well!

Sidereal, I haven't managed to try baobab yet. It is on the never-ending list. One day... always been curious about it simply because of the Hadza angle.
I've been getting into steel-cut oats for breakfast. I believe that there is a significant amount of fibre in it, but probably not quite as much as oat bran. I add a bit of chia or quinoa, or both, from time to time.

Thanks again you two!

 

[Sidereal]

I've been getting into steel-cut oats for breakfast.

I've been doing the same lately. Seems tolerable thus far. I am intrigued by this study showing increase in butyrate and decreased lactate after oat bran supplementation. However, if you look at Fig 1 you'll see there's quite a bit of individual variation; some people went in the opposite direction which you don't want. It doesn't surprise me given the wide range of reactions we've seen to everything around here.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v62/n8/pdf/1602816a.pdf

 

[ariel]

Hmm... yes, some of them radically decreased. I guess 8 weeks is plenty of time, though it would be interesting to know if their butyrate levels continued to decline, or eventually levelled out. Argh, who knows what's going on.

The only thing I can come back to is that no one fermentable is going to do it all. The complexity of the microbiome is such that a variety is the only way to ensure that you don't run into trouble by inadvertently becoming one of those who have lowered butyrate levels after supplementing with a single source of RS.

 

[Gondwanaland]

A low grain diet is what got me into this horrible mess in the first place.

I am glad that I never dropped my gluten free bread (except for one week when I tried AIP), even though it is clearly linked with my major discomfort. At some point I surely lost tolerance to it, but keep eating it daily

It is so funny that when I am out of town without my bread I am completely pain free. Sill not sure if it is only the bread or my apartment, or the local food supply. Things got significantly more tolerable when I stopped eating beets and carrots daily though