The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[adreno]

I finished this thread! All 123 pages of it!

I expect a full summary within 24 hours.

 

[Sidereal]

@whodathunkit, I've thought for a while we should have a medal for newcomers who actually go back and read the full thing.

 

[whodathunkit]

I expect a full summary within 24 hours.

Har har har har har...

I've thought for a while we should have a medal for newcomers who actually go back and read the full thing.

I agree, we should get *somethin'*, even if it's just an emoticon party. Particularly for @Vegas' beautiful, eloquent, intimidating posts. I wonder how he's doing, BTW?

 

[jepps]

I agree, we should get *somethin'*, even if it's just an emoticon party. Particularly for @Vegas' beautiful, eloquent, intimidating posts. I wonder how he's doing, BTW?

He realizes, what´s going on, and we try to realize, what´s going on But we are on a trip of learning

I ordered the Ubiome test, to see, what goes on in the gut after 8 months RS + fibres. I will retest it in 6 months or so and report, how RS + fibres work in my gut. My husband also does the test, and takes RS + fibres (lower dosage than me), we will see, what´s going on in his gut.

 

[whodathunkit]

@jepps, keep us posted on your tests...interested to know the results and particularly the comparison. I plan to get mine done sometime in the next year, but want to give it a while. I'm still not out of the woods yet. I wish I'd gotten one before I started but really didn't really need one to know I was not in good shape and need to maximize my limited $$$ on supplements that will potentially make me feel better rather than spend on tests that may or may not be accurate in telling me why I don't. Once I consistently feel better it will be interesting to see how it looks, though.

You're right, this is a trip, for sure.

 

[jepps]

@jepps, I wish I'd gotten one before I started but really didn't really need one to know

You're right, this is a trip, for sure.

@whodathunkit afraidly I also did not test by Ubiome before starting RS+fibres. And yes, we must carefully reflect, what´s worth the price, and what´s not. But I will report, if it´s interesting, what Ubiome shows with taking RS+fibres, there is a thread in the PR.
Yes, I also And when we are at the end of the trip (in who knows in how many years), we receive our certificate (at least in staying patient)

 

[adreno]

Yes, I also And when we are at the end of the trip (in who knows in how many years), we receive our certificate (at least in staying patient)

I wish I could even imagine there being an end to our trip.

 

[Sidereal]

I wish I could even imagine there being an end to our trip.

Feels like being on a train you inexplicably can't get off. Destination: ONOO.

 

[whodathunkit]

I wish I could even imagine there being an end to our trip.

Feels like being on a train you inexplicably can't get off. Destination: ONOO.

Well, "they" do say it's the journey not the destination, right?

Just think how chock-full of character we'll be if we ever do beat all our bad gut flora/mutations/self-induced health problems/bad environmental factors/what-have-you.

 

[Sidereal]

Well, "they" do say it's the journey not the destination, right?

Just think how chock-full of character we'll be if we ever do beat all our bad gut flora/mutations/self-induced health problems/bad environmental factors/what-have-you.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? I don't know... I'm sure that's true for some. I'd like to think so but I tend to think severe prolonged biological insults of the sorts we've experienced and continue to experience more often just leave a permanently dilapidated brain due to excitotoxic damage, a shell of a person. I'd like to think I'm more insightful as a result of what I've gone through but this illness hasn't improved my character. Probably the opposite. Dealing with constant symptoms and drama often pushes me into a certain aloof, irritable, self-absorbed survival mode. 24/7 triage is stressful. It's like working in an emergency room only your shift is never over.

 

[adreno]

I tend to agree. Adversity that occurs within the envelope of your potential for development can lead to personal growth. But that isn't the case here. Battling this disease is more like trauma, and trauma doesn't lead to development.

 

[whodathunkit]

@Sidereal: I agree with you about the insults, up to a certain point. But I also see a lot of really impressive cognition in the writing on this board, esp. for a population who is so sick. IMO the writing and comprehension around here is well above what I've seen on most other "laypeople" discussion boards. This makes me think that many if not most people here are *not* "permanently dilapidated" but have hope of a major recovery.

Some of our neurons may indeed be killed off due to excitotoxicity, but please don't forget the incredible facility the brain has to build new dendrites, which can, with time, overcome a majority of neuron death.

I also agree with @adreno about trauma, up to a certain point. But sometimes trauma in adversity (as opposed to adversity that does not traumatize) does lead to personal development...Viktor Frankl being one of the most notable examples. A lot of it has to do with personal choice. I say this as someone diagnosed with PTSD who traditionally has chosen not to see silver linings. "Erstwhile optimism is for suckers", etc.

IMO the biggest barrier to major recovery is simply that achieving it is so personalized. Figuring out your personal formula for recovery takes more time, effort, fortitude, and money than some people can muster.

For myself, I will say since I started attacking my gut even my closest co-worker, who I have had a fairly miserable, antagonistic relationship with for over half a decade, has noticed an general uptick in my mood and outlook. I was unaware that it had changed that much. (BTW, I thanked her for the compliment and wished her a similar achievement. )

So lately (even before the postws above) I've been wondering just how much of our ability to achieve personal growth from trauma and adversity, or simply to see the glass as half-full instead of half-empty, is due to the good critters in our guts and the substances they produce for us that allow us to have healthy neurotransmitters and to keep building dendrites.

Also noticed during my little nootropic experiment and subsequent crash from it that stamina, the brain, and gut are tightly connected. Stamina isn't just about exercise tolerance but very much the ability to psychologically withstand "the vicissitudes of the world."

I dunno. It's all connected somehow. Hopefully one day I'll build enough dendrites to figure it out.

 

[adreno]

@whodathunkit, I probably disagree with everything you just said.

Sure, there is Nelson Mandela, but most people who have been tortured don't come out better persons.

And I strongly disagree about the metaphors of this being some kind of personal journey, or discovery. This is not a spiritual project.

 

[whodathunkit]

@adreno, you're entitled to your opinion. But again, attitudes and opinions are all about choice. If I choose to make my recovery a spiritual journey, then that's exactly what it is. If you choose not to make yours spiritual, it's not. That's okay. But please remember that personal is not a synomym for spiritual. Everything everyone is doing here is N=1 personal. But not necessarily spiritual.

FWIW I don't see my poor health and then the healing I've done here so far as a spiritual journey per se, but it's definitely been an opportunity for growth. Also, kind of a long strange trip.

If you've never read "Man's search for meaning" by Viktor Frankl, I highly recommend it. I honestly don't think most people have the potential to achieve what he achieved (he was an extraordinary individual), but I very much agree with him that most of our attitude is a choice. I agree with that even while actively making choices that overall do not influence my mood, outlook, character, or life in general in a positive manner. I have a loooooong history of that.

 

[Sidereal]

But I also see a lot of really impressive cognition in the writing on this board, esp. for a population who is so sick. IMO the writing and comprehension around here is well above what I've seen on most other "laypeople" discussion boards.

Aye, this place is impressive. Sometimes I check out forums for other illnesses and I'm disappointed by the level of discussion. A lot of the time it boils down to "I just take a bunch of pills because my doctor told me to."

You do have to wonder about the biological reasons for why smart analytical people seem overrepresented in this illness. The NMDA receptor is central to synaptic plasticity, learning and memory but if too much the cup overflows and we end up in this mess.

 

[adreno]

Figuring out your personal formula for recovery takes more time, effort, fortitude, and money than some people can muster.

You make it sound as if finding recovery is a question of choice, or will power, and I find it condescending. It's assigning blame to the patient.

 

[Gondwanaland]

how much of our ability to achieve personal growth (...) ]is due to the good critters in our guts and the substances they produce for us that allow us to have healthy neurotransmitters and to keep building dendrites

most of our attitude is a choice.

I have to disagree with the latter

 

[Gondwanaland]

It was only when I took MB12 that I realized that "attitude" isn't a matter of choice. It's a matter of health.

 

[Sidereal]

It was only when I took MB12 that I realized that "attitude" isn't a matter of choice. It's a matter of health.

I've had too many experiences of this sort to think our personality is anything other than a product of biology.

 

[whodathunkit]

@adreno...well, I'm sorry that's what you read into my post. Condescension about not being able to get healthy again is DEFINITELY not what I meant. I did change some of the words to make it clearer that our attitudes and opinions are the matters of choice.

However, it is true that some people can't muster the time to figure out what may help them recover.

Some people find the side effects trying different approaches too much to deal with...so they stop. I have been in this position many, many times in my life, particularly WRT pharmaceuticals (birth control, antidepressants, etc.) This is not a criticism...just a fact.

Some people don't have the money to experiment with 1000 different things before they find the thing(s) that will help them.

@Gondwanaland just pointed out a nice little inconsistency in my wording of another post.

But that inconsistency does bring up the matter of why, for example, someone in Frankl's position who was traumatized and starving (i.e., his gut biome was negatively impacted by both his psychological and physical situation, his neurotransmitters were messed up from poor nutrition, etc.) could still make a choice to rise above it all, while the vast majority of people in the same situation couldn't make that choice. What's the difference between him and me? Because I know I would probably die or become [more of] an emotional cripple if put into that kind of situation.

That's kind of what I'm trying to get at. I'm awed by that ability to choose that some people seem to have, regardless of their biological circumstances. YMMV.

IMO that ability shows that while having good health is definitely conducive to making a choice to have a positive attitude, that's not ALL there is to it.

Sometimes the choice is to mentally move away from the offending substance or situation and just be okay with moving on to something else instead of regretting and fretting that it didn't work the way we wanted. And I say that as a lifelong (albeit trying to recover) regretter and fretter.