Suddenly sleep quality has become unbearably worse

[BadBadBear]

@soxfan CBD is something you could try in the daytime if you wanted, esp if you are resting anyway. It's good for zoning out. For me at least, doesn't knock me out, just takes off the edge. I have the same Plus CDB that @perchance dreamer mentioned.

You have some good natural remedies to experiment with, I hope one or some combo of them works well for you.

 

[soxfan]

@Learner1
@BadBadBear @Mary

Took 100 mg progesterone last night. It did nothing for my sleep. In fact this morning I feel terribly exhausted like I never slept. Not sleepy or unrefreshing...just pure exhaustion.
I still have not heard from the doctor...she is suppose to call today.

Dear lord what can I do to feel rested...I seriously feel like I am going to break down. On top of all this I am losing weight like crazy...9 pounds since early March and just in the past two weeks...5 pounds ...what is going on....

 

[Mary]

@soxfan - I would stop the ashwaganda. It might be lowering your cortisol too much, which could cause this exhaustion. It might not be the culprit but it could be.

On another thread of yours @Learner1 and I both posted about what helped us with sleep. It's not simple or easy. No one pill or supplement was enough to make me sleep. It's a combination of several things. Our regimens are a little different though we do take some of the same things. So the progesterone may still be good for you. Also, I added taurine back into my sleep cocktail last night and it's helping, for now at least. I'd print out these regimens and show them to your doctor.

...I seriously feel like I am going to break down.

I think it would probably be good to get off the lunesta as soon as possible. Insomnia is not due to lack of lunesta. And the lunesta actually could be making things worse right now - read about the "side" (actual) effects: https://www.rxlist.com/lunesta-side-effects-drug-center.htm One of its effects is anxiety.

I think there's an answer for you but it will take some experimentation. CBD oil may help, as someone posted above. It's definitely worth a try.

The weight loss is concerning of course and your doctor is supposed to call you today so you can discuss it with her. Take care --

 

[BadBadBear]

Did they check your thyroid status? Any chance you are hyperthyroid?

 

[soxfan]

@Mary ....I do have a list of all the supplements to you take for sleep. I have been dealing with this for so long and need to change something. I have not yet heard from the doctor which has me pretty upset....she is being paid to be available to me and she hasn’t been.

I am very concerned about the weight loss...I still have an appetite and no new pains or changes except for the exhaustion .

Would the Lunesta suddenly cause this awful sleep? My husband told me he thought I slept like a baby last night...no moving around or snoring so I don’t know what is up.

I will ask about the progesterone but she indicated I would know with one pill if it helped.
I have stopped the Ashwagandha...none last night.

Will write when she calls me...if I don’t hear from her soon I will call and leave another message.

@BadBadBear ...I am Hypothyroid but have been taking Ashwagandha for a couple months which I know interferes with Levothyroxine...I don’t really have many of Hypothyroid symptoms besides the weight loss and worsen fatigue. I am still waiting to hear from the doctor about getting it tested....

 

[BadBadBear]

Its always confusing with thyroid as hypo and hyper can have similar symptoms (for me, they are almost identical). The anxiety, insomnia, weight loss sounds like it could be a swing into hyper. Have they ever checked you for Graves or for thyroid nodules? Some people can have both Hashi and Graves. And nodules can also cause some wild swings.

I've also had two friends who had viral thyroiditis with similar issues and rapid weight loss. So I think that's why I was wondering about your thyroid status.

I can definitely say for me - ashwaganda worked as a stimulant and I absolutely could not take it anywhere near bed time. I eventually stopped taking it because I also have transient periods of time where I definitely feel 'overstimulated' and it's just miserable. I don't know that ashwaganda caused it for me, but I eliminate anything stimulating when that happens (including methyl supps, etc.).

I really sympathize with you and hope you can find a solution!

 

[Mary]

I don't know if lunesta is causing your sudden awful sleep. All I know is that long-term use is not good and has a host of bad effects.

I was on lorazepam for 10 (or maybe 11, can't remember) years in the middle of the night for sleep. I didn't realize how hard it would be to get off of it but it was bad - the insomnia was severe, but I was determined to stay off of it not least because it is linked to Alzheimer's. A short-term solution my sister told me about was Unisom, believe it or not - a really old antihistamine, and much more potent than Benadryl. I'm really sensitive to meds like you, so I started with 1/4 of a tablet and it knocked me out. It worked for about 2 weeks and then stopped - I would have had to increase the dose, which I didn't want to do. But during that 2 weeks, I started doing this pose (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-to-calm-balance-ans-stimulate-thyroid.52258/ ) and by the end of 2 weeks, I was sleeping much better. This pose worked for a few weeks, and then sleep started getting worse again - I believe it was revving up my thyroid which made sleep worse.

But doing all this bought me some time so I could play around with various supplements and see what helped. So again, the list I posted before is helping a lot. And also taurine, which is not on that list.

A couple more suggestions:

For anxiety: inositol can be very helpful. It helps me with sleep and my sister and her friend like it a lot taking it during the day - it calms then down, both have stressful jobs. I think they take 1000 mg.

Lemon balm and l-theanine are also calming, but I would try one thing at a time.

 

[perchance dreamer]

Years ago I was on Lunesta a short time. At first it really helped my severe insomnia, but then it stopped working, and my insomnia was worse than ever for awhile. I think that although Lunesta is not a benzo, it shares some of the same characteristics, enough to make continued use a problem for some people. If you do decide to go off it, I'd talk to the doctor first and do a very slow taper.

@soxfan, have you ever been tested for apnea? The stereotype about it is that the people who have it are overweight and snore at night, but I was thin and didn't snore. When tested, I had apnea, which even for mild cases like mine, can wreck your sleep. I use a dental device. It helps my sleep quite a bit.

Everyone is so different in what they need for sleep, but here are the prescriptions I use, in addition to a lot of supplements. Every other night I take 100 MG of Trazodone, and every other night I take 15 MG of Belsomra. I find that alternating these meds is crucial.

I do want to add that I think I'm the only one in these forums who has success with Belsomra. It stops working for many people, and that happened to me, too, until I started using it just every other day.

The progesterone tablets don't work for me although 3 doctors I really respect think it's the best form. I have it compounded into drops, which I respond better to for some reason.

 

[Westley]

No, what I meant was that once a drug has stopped working, or begun causing side effects, you'll probably never be able to take it again.

I will say that I have no doubt that Klonopin permanently ruined my sleep. It's been nearly 20 years since I stopped it and went throught the withdrawal, and my sleep is still pretty messed up...and I was not taking the Klonopin for sleep in the first place.

wow. Have you been able to find any studies supporting this?

 

[Mary]

The progesterone tablets don't work for me although 3 doctors I really respect think it's the best form. I have it compounded into drops, which I respond better to for some reason.

Interesting. I take it in a compounded cream. I think the pills are really expensive too!

 

[perchance dreamer]

My doctors like the tablets because they are time released, giving you progesterone all through the night. The drops I take are instant release, but they work for me.

 

[soxfan]

@BadBadBear
@perchance dreamer @Mary ... I am going to respond all at once. I have had a sleep study 4 years ago and they said I did not have apnea or RLS. I know things can change in that time but I just do not sleep well at the studies no matter what I take.
I think I only slept 2 hours total at that one but they said it was long enough.

Ashwagandha also stimulated me. I told the doctor I could not take it at night but she asked me to keep trying it ...it actually did nothing really for me but I gave it a good try.

I actually do have Thyroid nodules. Two of them. I had a scan in January and the doctor thought they had grown a little so I am having another scan in August. It is very hard to determine what could be causing the weight loss. I think the only way to know is to have my blood tested. If I ever hear back from the doctor I can get that done.

I really have never had good sleep on sleeping pills. I always wake unrefreshed and tired. My husband says I sleep like a log but obviously it is not a good quality sleep. I was on Lunesta for five years and off since 2012 when I replaced it with Klonopin 0.25 mg. I slept good for another five until last summer when I went back to Lunesta.

I was doing okay ...never refreshed but manageable till just this month. I am taking tiny bits of Trazodone hoping to sleep better. So many people swear by it but I would rather go the herbal route if possible.

I will check the list again and order some of the herbals and start slowly one at a time. I might not sleep at first but the quality sleep I am getting now is horrible.

My husband has good luck with Belsomra as he works overnights and sleeps days every other week. I took 50mg Trazodone and was terribly hungover for 20 hours. Right now I am taking 0.25 and still a little hungover in the am.

Thanks all for your suggestions and once I hear back from the doctor I will update.

Kim

 

[geraldt52]

wow. Have you been able to find any studies supporting this?

I assume you're asking about the possible long term, even permanent, effects of Klonopin withdrawal. The site benzo.org.uk is a wealth of information on benzodiazepines, that might be of interest if you aren't aware of how serious they can be. Including this: https://benzo.org.uk/pws04.htm

 

[soxfan]

@geraldt52 ....My doctor said she is going to stop giving me the Klonopin soon. It does cause severe memory loss or even possibly Alzheimer’s. It helps me tremendously with sensory overload ...just 0.25 does the trick if I take it before the event.

It is especially bad in older people like me....but it gives me the chance to engage socially so I will have to find something else in the near future...

I know they are not good....

 

[Westley]

I assume you're asking about the possible long term, even permanent, effects of Klonopin withdrawal. The site benzo.org.uk is a wealth of information on benzodiazepines, that might be of interest if you aren't aware of how serious they can be. Including this: https://benzo.org.uk/pws04.htm

Thanks. Do you know if zopiclone or zolpidem sleeping pills might have such irreversible side effects?

 

[geraldt52]

Thanks. Do you know if zopiclone or zolpidem sleeping pills might have such irreversible side effects?

I'm afraid I don't know and I doubt that anyone else, including the manufacturer, does either. These meds aren't really intended for continuous use, and I seriously doubt that the long term consequences have been properly evaluated.

I've never taken zopiclone. I tried zolpidem when trying to work my way through Klonopin withdrawal, but it was just too sedating the next day for me to tolerate.

 

[Westley]

I've known some people on it for years and years on zolpidem. I think in their case its become a drug addiction. You can tell they are not all there after years of using it.

 

[JellyLegs]

Hello, I take medication for sleep and have done for a few years. What I have found is that I start getting side effects after a few months. Mild depression, increased sleepiness. When this first happened my GP suggested I changed medication. Without sleep I can't function at half the level I manage with a good night's sleep (including short bathroom visits during the night).

Over time I have found that I can manage well by changing between two different types of sleeping tablets over a period of time. So a similar one to Lunesta (Zolpidem) for about 4 - 5 month and then a benzo for 6-7 months. Apart from when I had emergency surgery and needed morphine - which threw my system out - I have managed like this for 3 years. Not ideal but better than the alternatives in terms of quality of life. I am aware of potential side effects and keep them to a minimum dose. In the past I have tried valerian (herbal) and melotonin and they helped a little, but melatonin left me with that 'hangover' effect.

So hard to find the best way of managing... hope you had a good night's sleep soxfan.

 

[soxfan]

Update...My sleep quality is still off the charts terrible. I would take unrefreshing sleep anyday over waking up feeling exhausted. The only thing I have changed in the past month is my Thyroid. I switched from Levothyroxine to NP Thyroid and I wouldn’t think that would have made me feel worse.

I just started Pregenelone and DHEA due to my saliva hormone testing and I also have high night cortisol which I have known for years. .

I don’t think any of this would have caused the sudden change in how I feel in the morning since obviously my hormones have been screwed up for years.

Once again I seemingly slept great with one awaking but feeling tired and drained...

I dunno...

 

[Pink]

Belsomra did nothing for me, actually kept me awake. Zolpedeim also no longer works, but Xanax or benadryl make me crash horribly. Unisom also does nothing, cbd oil made me horribly sick & my entire body was in terrible pain both times I tried it; not willing to risk trying it again.

I'm sorry you're not sleeping, I have a hard time sleeping also, it is really torture.