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Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

Hip

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One thing that occurred to me is that the Staphypan vaccine may have opposing effects depending on whether or not an individual has a Staphylococcus aureus infection in their body.

This is because if the patient does have a Staphylococcus aureus infection somewhere in their body, presumably they are going to be making antibodies to Staphylococcus alpha toxin, and antibodies to the other Staphylococcus toxins like enterotoxin B.

Now, when you inject the Staphypan vaccine, via the immune response to the alpha toxoid and enterotoxin B toxoid in the vaccine, this will boost levels of antibodies and against alpha toxin and enterotoxin B, which will have the effect of reducing Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels in the blood (as the alpha toxin and enterotoxin B will be neutralized by the antibodies).

So the overall result of vaccination is a temporary increase in alpha toxoid levels and enterotoxin B toxoid levels just after the Staphypan vaccine injection, followed by a reduction in Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels as a result of the boosted antibody response.

So that's what will happen in a patient that has a Staphylococcus aureus infection in their body. Apparently 20% of the population have Staphylococcus aureus on their skin, and 30% have this bacterium in their nose. 1 And 20% of the population have Staphylococcus aureus in the gut, and a further 9% have MRSA in their gut. 1 I know that I have Staphylococcus aureus in my gut, as I tested positive for this in a digestive stool analysis test.

However, if we consider people who do not have Staphylococcus aureus infections anywhere in their body, then in these people, the vaccine will have a different effect. As before you will get a temporary increase in alpha toxoid levels and enterotoxin B toxoid levels just after the Staphypan vaccine injection, but then nothing further after that. There will be no effects on alpha toxin and enterotoxin B, because a person without a Staphylococcus aureus infection will not have these two toxins in their blood.


So one possibility is that the ME/CFS-ameliorating effects of Staphypan are mediated directly by the effects of the alpha toxoid and enterotoxin B toxoid acting on receptors, etc. Another possibility is that these ME/CFS-ameliorating effects derive from the antibody boosting effects of the vaccine, which act to reduce Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels in the blood.
 
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That's an interesting thought.

Looking at this GMP Practice in the Pharmaceutical Industry document, it says that: "compliance with GMP is a necessary condition for marketing authorization".

So you may be able to make a non-GMP compliant pharmaceutical, but I am guessing you won't be able to sell it in Western or developed nations that stipulate GMP compliance.
Well I do believe it has been withdrawn of wrong reason .. Thiomersal is not forbidden, it was under discussion as I remember it.
 
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[QUOTE="swede, post: 815055, member: 28076" @Hip ]Well I do believe it has been withdrawn of wrong reason .. Thiomersal is not forbidden, it was under discussion as I remember it.[/QUOTE] I always forget :)
 
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One thing that occurred to me is that the Staphypan vaccine may have opposing effects depending on whether or not an individual has a Staphylococcus aureus infection in their body.

This is because if the patient does have a Staphylococcus aureus infection somewhere in their body, presumably they are going to be making antibodies to Staphylococcus alpha toxin, and antibodies to the other Staphylococcus toxins like enterotoxin B.

Now, when you inject the Staphypan vaccine, via the immune response to the alpha toxoid and enterotoxin B toxoid in the vaccine, this will boost levels of antibodies and against alpha toxin and enterotoxin B, which will have the effect of reducing Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels in the blood (as the alpha toxin and enterotoxin B will be neutralized by the antibodies).

So the overall result of vaccination is a temporary increase in alpha toxoid levels and enterotoxin B toxoid levels just after the Staphypan vaccine injection, followed by a reduction in Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels as a result of the boosted antibody response.

So that's what will happen in a patient that has a Staphylococcus aureus infection in their body. Apparently 20% of the population have Staphylococcus aureus on their skin, and 30% have this bacterium in their nose. 1 And 20% of the population have Staphylococcus aureus in the gut, and a further 9% have MRSA in their gut. 1 I know that I have Staphylococcus aureus in my gut, as I tested positive for this in a digestive stool analysis test.

However, if we consider people who do not have Staphylococcus aureus infections anywhere in their body, then in these people, the vaccine will have a different effect. As before you will get a temporary increase in alpha toxoid levels and enterotoxin B toxoid levels just after the Staphypan vaccine injection, but then nothing further after that. There will be no effects on alpha toxin and enterotoxin B, because a person without a Staphylococcus aureus infection will not have these two toxins in their blood.


So one possibility is that the ME/CFS-ameliorating effects of Staphypan are mediated directly by the effects of the alpha toxoid and enterotoxin B toxoid acting on receptors, etc. Another possibility is that these ME/CFS-ameliorating effects derive from the antibody boosting effects of the vaccine, which act to reduce Staphylococcus bacterial infection-derived alpha toxin and enterotoxin B levels in the blood.
 
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I just found another new vaccine in the development pipeline that may replicate the effects of Staphypan on ME/CFS:

Staphylococcus toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1) vaccine
Developed at the Medical University of Vienna, Austria.

The successful phase I clinical trial of this new TSST-1 vaccine is detailed in this study.

Olaf Zachrisson et al performed a content analysis study (full paper here) on the original Staphypan vaccine, and Table 2 of the study (shown below) details the ingredients he found in Staphypan:



Looking at the notable ingredients present in Staphypan, you see that there are the following:

Toxoids in Staphypan:
Alpha toxin
Enterotoxin A​
Enterotoxin B
Toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 (TSST-1)

Other Notable Staphypan Ingredients:
Staphylococcus aureus cell wall components
Staphylococcus epidermidis entire cell walls

I have tried an alpha toxin vaccine, an enterotoxin A, B and C vaccine, and a Staphylococcus cell wall vaccine.

The only thing I have not yet tried is a toxic shock syndrome toxin 1 vaccine, which the Medical University of Vienna have developed. This Vienna TSST-1 vaccine seems to be well tolerated, and has passed phase I clinical trials, but presumably it will be several years before this vaccine becomes available.

I did do some searching for possible immunomodulatory effects the TSST-1 might have on autoimmune diseases, but did not find anything.


Interesting info. Olof Zachrisson is my ME doctor. He's a quite interesting person, unfortunately he can't prescribe ANY treatment/medication at all. He also dismisses all the (other) possible infections as a ME cause (Lyme, EBV, Coxsackie etc)
 

Hip

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Olof Zachrisson is my ME doctor.
@ECAsson, do you know if Olof Zachrisson is aware of the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine as a possible replacement for Staphypan? He did the above research on the ingredients in the original Staphypan, so I presume he must still have an interest in this.

Does Zachrisson work with the Gottfries Clinic, by the way, or is he an independent ME/CFS doctor?
 
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@ECAsson, do you know if Olof Zachrisson is aware of the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine as a possible replacement for Staphypan? He did the above research on the ingredients in the original Staphypan, so I presume he must still have an interest in this.

Does Zachrisson work with the Gottfries Clinic, by the way, or is he an independent ME/CFS doctor?

Yes, he works at the clinic - he has been around Pf. Gottfriess since 1998 - so he knows everything Pf. Gottfriess does/knows. I even got to see this legendary man (the professor) for a couple of seconds during my last visit to the clinic in August. :)
 
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@Hip @ECAsson I do not think it is easy to start a new projekt, first they must test if it safe it takes a lot of time Year to introduce a new brand :) Staphypan was approved I assume this is easier to get back on the market since after BernaBiotech withdrew it, the regulations was change :).. and the only reason it was withdrawn was that thiomersal should be prohibited ....
 

Helen

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So one possibility is that the ME/CFS-ameliorating effects of Staphypan are mediated directly by the effects of the alpha toxoid and enterotoxin B toxoid acting on receptors, etc.
I guess you could ask Prof. Gottfries or Dr. Zachrisson about this. They surely have considered this possibility. Could it be discussed in their studies under "Discussion"?
 
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@Helen which group are you referring to? I have never heard about it? .. what I remember from the old days when I still received the vaccin it was all about the money no one was interesting to invest and to start all over would be very costly. Please send me the link to this discussion group Thank You :)
 
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@Hip all toxin is importen , during this week I try to explain what I found out You could also try o google Passive immunization as long as the antigen is known ... and in this case it is toxin who treat the disease, but not the infection :)
 

Helen

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@Helen which group are you referring to? I have never heard about it? .. what I remember from the old days when I still received the vaccin it was all about the money no one was interesting to invest and to start all over would be very costly. Please send me the link to this discussion group Thank You :)
Discussion group? I think there is a misunderstanding. I refered to the studies as of Staphypan that have been published. Under the headline "Discussion" ( or even in the Introduction) in these articles, there could be answers to the thoughts that @Hip posted in #641.
 

Hip

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I guess you could ask Prof. Gottfries or Dr. Zachrisson about this. They surely have considered this possibility. Could it be discussed in their studies under "Discussion"?
The best paper for this is the study by Zachrisson, Gottfries et al, which analyzed the ingredients in Staphypan. You can get the full paper on Sci-Hub here.

In the conclusion of that paper, they state:
In conclusion, this study has shown that repeated injections in FM/CFS patients with the staphylococcal vaccine preparation Staphypan Berna caused a serological response to several staphylococcal antigens.

This response was higher to certain extracellular toxins and enzymes than to cell-wall components such as teichoic acids.

Furthermore, the increase in serum IgG against lipase and alpha-toxin and the increase in the capacity of serum to neutralise alpha-toxin paralleled the clinical outcome. The results support the hypothesis of an immune dysfunction in FM/CFS patients. In the future, serum antibody determinations may be used to monitor treatment with immunomodulating agents such as bacte- rial components.
So patients taking Staphypan who developed high levels of IgG antibodies against alpha toxin (and lipase) were also found to have better clinical response to Staphypan. Thus they are hinting that alpha toxin may be the active ingredient in Staphypan which improves ME/CFS symptoms.

But I think this is more of guess than anything else. When I asked Prof Gottfries by email about the possible mechanism of action of alpha toxin, I got the impression that his research team did not know the definite answer, but had explored some possibilities.
 

Hip

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I was in contact with Prof Gottfries recently, and he told me he has been testing the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine (adsorbed version with aluminum and mercury) for over 4 months now, at dose of 1.0 ml of the vaccine once every two weeks.

He said he's a little more tired when using the Russian vaccine (compared to when using Staphypan), but from what he can tell so far, it seems like the adsorbed version may be having a positive effect.

Gottfries also told me that the non-adsorbed version of the Russian vaccine was much weaker in its effects, compared to the adsorbed version.

So for all the people on this thread who, like myself, tried the non-adsorbed version of the Russian vaccine, this was the wrong vaccine!

The effects of the non-adsorbed version are too weak.

The right vaccine is the adsorbed version, available to buy here.

For those new to this vaccine, to begin with, you use this increasing dose schedule, which takes 8 weeks to compete. Thereafter, you take one full subcutaneous injection of 1.0 ml of the vaccine every two weeks
 
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Hugo

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I was in contact with Prof Gottfries recently, and he told me he has been testing the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine (adsorbed version with aluminum and mercury) for over 4 months now, at dose of 1.0 ml of the vaccine once every two weeks.

He said he's a little more tired when using the Russian vaccine (compared to when using Staphypan), but from what he can tell so far, it seems like the adsorbed version may be having a positive effect.

Gottfries also told me that the non-adsorbed version of the Russian vaccine was much weaker in its effects, compared to the adsorbed version.

So for all the people on this thread who, like myself, tried the non-adsorbed version of the Russian vaccine, this was the wrong vaccine!

The effects of the non-adsorbed version are too weak.

The right vaccine is the adsorbed version, available to buy here.

For those new to this vaccine, to begin with, you use this increasing dose schedule, which takes 8 weeks to compete. Thereafter, you take one full subcutaneous injection of 1.0 ml of the vaccine every two weeks
Hi Hip, Im new to the staphylococcus vaccine but Im thinking of maybe trying. I started of with ME but later on got lyme aswell. I suppose that Gottfries got some lymies aswell back in the god old days when Staphypan was available. But have you or anyone else heard anything of a patient with lyme testing this treatment?
 

Biarritz13

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He said he's a little more tired when using the Russian vaccine (compared to when using Staphypan), but from what he can tell so far, it seems like the adsorbed version may be having a positive effect.
Does he mean he has had the same effect (remission) for him while trying it?
 

Hip

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Hi Hip, Im new to the staphylococcus vaccine but Im thinking of maybe trying. I started of with ME but later on got lyme aswell. I suppose that Gottfries got some lymies aswell back in the god old days when Staphypan was available. But have you or anyone else heard anything of a patient with lyme testing this treatment?
@ECAsson tried the vaccine, and I believe was tested positive for Lyme. I am not sure if they had in the past treated with the vaccine Lyme ME/CFS patients at the Gottfries Clinic. Don't forget that the original Staphypan vaccine was discontinued in 2005, so the clinic has been unable to treat any patient with the vaccine since then.

In Prof Gottfries's published clinical trials on the original Staphypan vaccine, the cohorts were female patients who fulfilled the criteria for both fibromyalgia and CFS. So that indicates the type of patients that were treated in the trials.



Does he mean he has had the same effect (remission) for him while trying it?
Yes, that's the early indications, but he has not been testing it for long enough to know. This is just early impressions after testing the Russian Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine for 4½ months. Prof Gottfries did say that Russian vaccine (adsorbed version) seems a little weaker than that original Staphypan vaccine, and so is taking the Russian vaccine once every 2 weeks, rather than the usual Staphypan protocol of once every 3 or 4 weeks. But, yes, so far the Medgamal vaccine seems to be maintaining remission.

But Gottfries found that the effects of the non-adsorbed Medgamal Staphylococcus alpha toxoid vaccine was much weaker than the adsorbed version; so that means anyone on this thread like me, who previously tried the non-adsorbed vaccine as a test used a much weaker product — a product that may have been too weak to produce any noticeable effects on ME/CFS symptoms.
 
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@Hip Does the this Russian anatoxin content Enterotoxins A-C ?.. I Do believe those are importan, because one of this toxins can mutade and activate the Enteroviruses we are vaccinated against to protect Polio.. I got the vaccine During 5 years .. and have no developed some neurological problems ... There is a lot of interesting referencer in the trial book written by dr Olof Zachrisson which is important.
I am looking after the German original German article, I have it some place but I do have a lot of paper and a bad memory