Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[hvac14400]

so here we go:

and the damage that has been done:

http://posoni.ru/3d.JPG
http://posoni.ru/4d.JPG
http://posoni.ru/5d.JPG

it's strange, but i felt absolutely nothing while pinning - no pain, no gain no any itching whatsoever, like last time. as if i was injecting sterile water or sumthin. but it began hurting after some time and it hurts non-stop since then for a half of a day already, he-he. not much, but enuf to constantly remind of itself

nothing else i can tell right now - no temperature, no any other noticeable changes, so as always we just have to wait.

 

[hvac14400]

24h post injection status report:
- no any pain
- no any redness
- immune status - great
- there are some minor hardenings under the skin, at the sites of injections, very small in size. according to instruction this is expected and totally ok.

overall feeling - ok, still pem-ed from previous workout, so hard to notice any positive changes if any, but def no any negative ones.

8 ampoules left, i think next month i may try to inject 4 at once, lol.

 

[panckage]

Did my first injection today.. Inserting the needle was completely painless even though my hands shook

I did have some issues though. I used 8mm insulin needles and they weren't long enough to reach the bottom of the ampule. I had to tilt the ampule to get it in the needle and ending up getting air in the needle. I was also unable to get the last bit out of the ampule either. I guess the easiest thing will be to get longer needles.

The tips of these syringes also can't be removed so I just filled up 4 with the first ampule, then put them in a sterile bag and back in fridge. Hopefully this is ok. I don't want sepsis

 

[hvac14400]

my needles are 12mm, but i had no prob gettin full 1ml with them.
as about air - suck like 0.2-0.3ml, pull the needle out from ampoule, position it up to the ceiling, then knock on the syringe till all air aggregates atop and plunge it the fokk out the way
now you can suck forever further

 

[Hip]

The tips of these syringes also can't be removed so I just filled up 4 with the first ampule, then put them in a sterile bag and back in fridge. Hopefully this is ok. I don't want sepsis

I don't think that's safe, if you are going to keep these filled syringes for several weeks in the fridge. You can get useful info about this on bodybuilding forums, and what I have read is that a filled syringe with normal sterile water is only safe for around 24 hours in the fridge.

Even with bacteriostatic water, which contains an antibacterial preservative to inhibit bacterial growth, that is only safe for 28 days (and that is inside a sealed bottle). But the vaccine liquid itself does not have any preservative. I used a bacteriostatic water method described at the bottom of this post.

 

[panckage]

@Hip thanks for making me research this more. There is research to support that prefilling a syringe with insulin for upto 1 month is safe http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2278263

Insulin tested did have bactericidal activity. I guess this would be the preservative.

According to hvac the megademal staph vaccine does contain a preservative as well. Does that sound about right?

edit: link fixed

 

[Hip]

@panckage
I think you may have posted the wrong PubMed link.

The non-adsorbed vaccine does not contain any preservative.

Here is some info about using bacteriostatic water versus sterile water:

The human growth hormone - somatropin - is now ready for use. Store your now reconstituted human growth hormone - somatropin - in the refrigerator. If you used BW to reconstitute it will be good for three weeks. If you used sterile water, it will be good for about 5 days.

 

[hvac14400]

According to hvac the megademal staph vaccine does contain a preservative as well. Does that sound about right?

according to instruction you must discard any leftovers and never use them, nor store them, so no - this doesn't sound right. the shit is cheap, so why even bother?
i personally dumped 4.6 + 4.8 ml (ie almost full panckage package ) right in the kitchen sink, but the stuff never worked for me as needed anyway.

 

[Tinnybell]

Hello! I've bought the vaccine a while ago. Injected myself 1ml every tuesday.(3 injections so far)
Note that I've got no real diagnosis or test done on myself to suggest anything.
It looks like that things are going well for my fatigue! I wonder if it strongly suggests that I have cfs?

I went a fairly long trip to get the vaccine from my forwarder and injected it when I got back home on the first day.
The pem that would have been there did not happen.
Also it seems that the vaccine injection had a pretty fast effect, 15 minutes in and the mood improvement is there.
The overall effect peaks at the next day after the injection (wednesday).
It had largely worn off by Day 3 and the rest of the week was pretty uneventful except that the mood improvement was lasting.

I've injected myself too close to the navel and too deep on the second time.
I thought that wouldn't matter, except that it probably did.
Anyways, I felt much less effect than the first time so I gave myself another injection on wednesday.
This time the effect lasted about two days. Day 13 and 14 felt awful, mostly headaches and fatigue.

But the injection on Day 15 brought some quick relieves.The effect lasted three day or so.
I do felf slightly more tired than usual after the effects worn off.
But I think it was mostly feelings. There is probably less fatigue than before the first injection.

 

[Hip]

Also it seems that the vaccine injection had a pretty fast effect, 15 minutes in and the mood improvement is there.
The overall effect peaks at the next day after the injection (wednesday).
It had largely worn off by Day 3 and the rest of the week was pretty uneventful except that the mood improvement was lasting.

Thanks for posting your results, @Tinnybell, it is very useful to get the reports from people trying the vaccine. And welcome to the forum.

When you refer to the "overall effect," do you mean the reduction in fatigue that the vaccine produces for you?

Interesting that you also got the elated mood soon after injecting the vaccine. I myself found the happier mood wears off after a day or two, whereas you are finding it lasts longer than that.

Initially because of the elated mood, I thought the vaccine was helping my ME/CFS symptoms; but now I think that because injection puts you in this happy and optimistic mood for a day or two, you think everything is going better, and everything seems rosy, but I suspect the optimism makes you think your ME/CFS is improved, but it may not be.

I found that my brain fog was not really improved much by the vaccine, and I usually use my brain fog as a gauge to measure my current ME/CFS severity and level. There are certain things I can start doing once my brain fog has improved (eg, computer programming), so if I am able to do these tasks, then this is an objective test of brain fog improvements.

I did however find that the vaccine noticeably increases overall motivation. I found myself getting down to a lot more tasks that I would normally after taking the vaccine.

I do felf slightly more tired than usual after the effects worn off.

Prof Gottfries says that it is not unusual for ME/CFS symptoms such as fatigue to worsen slightly during the first two weeks of starting the vaccine. So it may be that your slight increase in fatigue a few days after the vaccine wears off will disappear as you continue with the vaccine.

Hello! I've bought the vaccine a while ago. Injected myself 1ml every tuesday.(3 injections so far)

Did you start straight away with a 1.0 ml dose, rather than starting with a low 0.1 ml dose, and build up gradually over the weeks, as per the dosing protocol use by Prof Gottfries? Did you get a strong local reaction (area of reddened skin that looks like this) at the injection site?

I still get local reactions of around 5 cm in diameter when I inject, even after 4 months taking the Medgamal Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine.

It looks like that things are going well for my fatigue! I wonder if it strongly suggests that I have cfs?

Have you checked your list of symptoms against the CDC criteria, for ME/CFS diagnosis, or the stricter and more precise CCC definition (see page 2) of ME/CFS? These are the standard criteria for diagnosing ME/CFS.

I've injected myself too close to the navel and too deep on the second time.

If you inject too deep, it becomes an intramuscular injection rather than a subcutaneous injection. The trick is to squeeze up some of the flesh between your thumb forefinger, and inject into that mound of flesh. That should help direct the injection into the subcutaneous fat, rather than the layer of muscle that lies beneath the fat.

Source: Giving A Subcutaneous Injection​

The needles I use are 12 mm long, and I usually push them into the hilt, but I always squeeze up a mound of flesh as shown in the picture above.​

 

[Tinnybell]

When you refer to the "overall effect," do you mean the reduction in fatigue that the vaccine produces for you?

Sort of, I find that the reduction in fatigue is the largest effect, but it seems to have brought improvements my motor functions, nausea, muscle pain, anxiety. The effect on the brain fog is less clear cut though.

Initially because of the elated mood, I thought the vaccine was helping my ME/CFS symptoms; but now I think that because injection puts you in this happy and optimistic mood for a day or two, you think everything is going better, and everything seems rosy, but I suspect the optimism makes you think your ME/CFS is improved, but it may not have.

I found that my brain fog was not really improved much by the vaccine, and I usually use my brain fog as a gauge to measure my current ME/CFS severity and level. There are certain things I can start doing once my brain fog has improved (eg, computer programming), so if I am able to do these tasks, then this is an objective test of brain fog improvements.

I did however find that the vaccine noticeably increases overall motivation. I found myself getting down to a lot more tasks that I would normally after taking the vaccine.

I am a little suspicious about the mood related bias too. But for me, I feel that the brain fog is improving. Just somewhat slower than the fatigue itself. The improvement in hand eye coordination and mental blocks seemed clear but other thing either lacked means of objective measurement (speech, problem solving) or I simply did not do the tasks needed to measure them (programming ability?).

I am able to do some things that I did not do for a few months though. Namely talking to other people on the internet and drawing things. The motivation effects seemed true enough.

For me, the psychological effects alone is well worth the price and efforts.

Prof Gottfries says that it is not unusual for ME/CFS symptoms such as fatigue to worsen slightly during the first two weeks of starting the vaccine. So it may be that your slight increase in fatigue a few days after the vaccine wears off will disappear as you continue with the vaccine.

That's my guess, too.

Did you start straight away with a 1.0 ml dose, rather than starting with a low 0.1 ml dose, and build up gradually over the weeks, as per the dosing protocol use by Prof Gottfries? Did you get a strong local reaction (area of reddened skin that looks like this) at the injection site?

I still get local reactions of around 5 cm in diameter when I inject, even after 4 months taking the Medgamal Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine.

Started straight away with a 1.0 ml dose because of a lack of patience and spare money (to buy the right kind of bacteriostatic water).

The local reaction is pretty much identical every time. The size looked similar, perhaps smaller than yours.

Have you checked your list of symptoms against the CDC criteria, for ME/CFS diagnosis, or the stricter and more precise CCC definition (see page 2) of ME/CFS? These are the standard criteria for diagnosing ME/CFS.

I think I fits the bill for these and the other descriptions I've seen before. I've for a long time suspected (also, hoped) that I may have other illnesses that would excluded me from a ME/CFS however. I did not find anything that could explain my symptoms however.

As a note, my illness is most likely an after effects of a recurring virus infection (EBV?), that may or may not affect the effectiveness of the vaccine.

 

[Hip]

For me, the psychological effects alone is well worth the price and efforts.

I can quite understand that, because the mood boost does make you feel pretty good. Though I am wondering why for you the mood boost is longer lasting, whereas for me it only lasts for a day or two maximum after each injection.

I do suffer with anhedonia and some depression alongside my ME/CFS, so because of this, it may be a harder job for the vaccine to create an optimistic mood in me.

As a note, my illness is most likely an after effects of a recurring virus infection (EBV?), that may or may not affect the effectiveness of the vaccine.

ME/CFS is usually kicked off by viral infection, typically either EBV or an enterovirus infection (the enteroviruses coxsackievirus B and echovirus are linked to triggering ME/CFS).

 

[Tinnybell]

I can quite understand that, because the mood boost does make you feel pretty good. Though I am wondering why for you the mood boost is longer lasting, whereas for me it only lasts for a day or two maximum after each injection.

I do suffer with anhedonia and some depression alongside my ME/CFS, so because of this, it may be a harder job for the vaccine to create an optimistic mood in me.

Actually while the mood improvement is longer lasting and welcomed, it is not that important. The anxiety reduction is what I appreciated the most. The physical symptoms of anxiety is greatly reduced at the peak of vaccine effect.

But I think that the physical and psychological effects are fairly intertwined. while some of the effect I feel are clearly physical, it is hard for me pick out an effect that is completely psychological.

I'm sure that the vaccine did not act directly on the mood and the mood improvement has to be caused by whatever the vaccine is doing to the immune system (or other parts of the body).
But then, it's not like I know anything for sure.

 

[Hip]

The anxiety reduction is what I appreciated the most.

If you have anxiety as one of your ME/CFS symptoms (quite a few ME/CFS patients do), then the anti-anxiety protocol detailed on this thread has proven very effective for many people.

Started straight away with a 1.0 ml dose because of a lack of patience and spare money (to buy the right kind of bacteriostatic water).

By the way, it's not a good idea to start with the full 1.0 ml dose, because if you happen to have an actual Staphylococcus infection in your body, the sudden strong immune reaction to this bacterium that the vaccine induces could cause lots of problems, like sudden high levels of inflammation and a Herxheimer reaction. This is what @Andey told me.

If you look at the Medgamal Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine instructions, it says:

A full course of treatment includes 7 injections carried out with every 2 days, following increasing doses: 0.1 - 0.3 - 0.5 - 0.7 - 0.9 - 1.2 - 1.5 ml.

 

[hvac14400]

holy cow - sometimes reading this forum am just start wondering - is there any cfs in me at all?
the difference in severity of symptoms between various ppl never stops amusing me, it may be like ten fold or more, really scary shiet.

or is it possible to have some fatigue & pem without cfs?
then maybe i just heading in the wrong direction

 

[Hip]

the difference in severity of symptoms between various ppl never stops amusing me, it may be like ten fold or more,

ME/CFS comes in three recognized levels of severity: mild, moderate and severe. If you are mild, you can probably just about manage a full-time or part-time job. If you are severe, you will probably be bedbound most of the day.

 

[hvac14400]

i have secondary immunodeficiency, so very sensitive to things like cool breeze etc and usually can catch cold very easily (especially under heavy [for me personally] training). but now i can sit (almost) under air conditioner for hours (some hot summer time here) without any problems whatsoever - that was just impossible in the past and annoyed the shit out of me. so atleast this vaccine is good as an immunomodulator.
for some ppl.

 

[panckage]

@Hip I got some bacteriostatic water but I can't seem to find mixing ratios for it. Any idea what ratio it needs to be?

 

[Hip]

@Hip I got some bacteriostatic water but I can't seem to find mixing ratios for it. Any idea what ratio it needs to be?

I would suggest a good ratio is 4 parts bacteriostatic water, 1 part vaccine.

So a vaccine ampoule of 1.0 ml can be mixed with 4.0 ml of bacteriostatic water. You are only using the bacteriostatic water for the preservative within it.

 

[hvac14400]

hey.
i can finally say, that vaccine is in fact working
2 workouts in the row i have significantly reduced pem-s - like 50% or more. yes i do still get pem-ed, and i don't saying that this vacc is a replacement/analogue to berna's one, but you can't say it doesn't work at all.
read the manual carefully - the last scheduled injection for donors is TWO ampoules, not single.
you can start this vacc very fast and very easy - first week 1ml, second one 1ml, third and the last week 2ml - and that's it.

so 2ml is probably minimum effective dose for cfs, for average ppl, i think probably somebody will need more, somebody less.
and maybe those non-responders in prof G studies just needed higher dose too, because of their immunity is too weak to begin with, or there are some other "features" in them.

i'll try 3ml next time, if after a month am not eliminate pem-s completely.