Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[panckage]

@Hip I just updated the post with a 2nd link. According to the website both the regular and absorbed versions are in stock

 

[CaptainA]

@panckage that is great. @Hip have you received the non-absorbed vaccine yet?

 

[Hip]

@Hip have you received the non-absorbed vaccine yet?

Rupharma.com only dispatched it 3 days ago, so it's going to be another week or two.

 

[panckage]

@Jonathan Edwards in your new study ( http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...yndrome-a-solvable-problem.44300/#post-720362 ) you don't mention anything about Gottfries research. This implies that you don't believe it to be high quality research. It would be great if you could mention why as this thread is really short on critiques!

 

[CaptainA]

I was getting together an explanatory paragraph to send to possible media outlets about this and stumbled across two Patent articles I had not seen before.

1. This one showing that Gottfries originally filed the patent to treat IBS
2. This one that shows that Gottfries applied for a patent to use the vaccine and paid for it up until 2013 and then he let it lapse in 2014.

My first reaction to this is that many more people suffer from IBS and it widely accepted as a disease/ailment and I'm guessing that Gottfies might have realized he would have a better chance getting the vaccine accepted as a treatment if he did it this way. Weather he did that purposely or not, I think it might actually be a good strategy. As far as the patent goes, I think its great he filed for one so that it could be used as a treatment, now I'm worried that since it has lapsed that someone/anyone who wants to simply sit on it, can file a new patent. @Hip or anyone in contact with Gottfries, now that there is a possibility of a new similar vaccine/treatment, I'm wondering if we should notify him to simply renew.

 

[Hip]

@CaptainA
Interesting that Prof Gottfries observed that Staphypan can also treat IBS.

Note that you cannot file a new patent once your idea is published and has become public. The only way to obtain a new patent once the original idea has been published is to make some substantially innovative improvements to the original idea (if you can come up with such innovations), and then patent the new improved idea. Also, I believe once you let a patent lapse, you cannot longer revive it.

 

[CaptainA]

Note that you cannot file a new patent once your idea is published and has become public. The only way to obtain a new patent once the original idea has been published is to make some substantially innovative improvements to the original idea (if you can come up with such innovations), and then patent the new improved idea. Also, I believe once you let a patent lapse, you cannot longer revive it.

Very Interesting!! Funny how we have covered everything from the CDC proposing terrorists could use a staph vac to now patent law in this thread.

 

[panckage]

Hmm... I wonder if the patent filing is why nobody tried to confirm Gottfries research. I mean confirming the research would only lead to Gottfries benefitting monetarily from it. There wouldn't be much in it for the people doing the confirming (other than potentially helping millions of CFS sufferers of course )

Some interesting quotes from the patent

The main ingredient in the preparation is a substance functioning as a staphylococcal vaccine; it may be any kind of antigen products from Staphylococcus, or any kind of synthetically produced compound mimicking such a product.

The preparation may advantageously further comprise vitamin B12 and/or folacin.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is probably not a proper patent filing (not that it matters now that it is expired anyways ) at least in Canada. I'm basing this on Viagra case here in which the patent was invalidated due to lack of specivity in the patent document. Gottfries patent seems to have the same problem. It uses "may", "and/or" and doesn't seem to even specify the contents of the staphylococcus vaccine. It's basically the same with Viagra where they tried to patent a whole class of chemicals rather than the specific one used. Well that's my 2 cents

 

[Hip]

I wonder if the patent filing is why nobody tried to confirm Gottfries research. I mean confirming the research would only lead to Gottfries benefitting monetarily from it.

I think it's likely more the other way around: if there is no patent protection for an idea, nobody will want to invest in it because there is no way to recoup their R+D costs.

 

[Thomas]

So interesting if in fact he saw that this vaccine was an effective treatment for IBS. This vaccine must this address the autonomic issues associated with IBS and its classic visceral hypersensitivity that most IBS patients suffer with.

This is especially interesting to me mostly because I've battled IBS for most of my life and it preceded my ME by many many years. In fact, it is still one of my more debilitating (and annoying) symptoms.

 

[CaptainA]

@Thomas same goes for me. I would like to hear from someone who is currently taking the Russian vac or the original Staph Vac and see what it did for their IBS.

 

[Thomas]

@Thomas same goes for me. I would like to hear from someone who is currently taking the Russian vac or the original Staph Vac and see what it did for their IBS.

The questions that boggle my mind and has done so since my acute onset of ME in 2011 is will a successful ME treatment also treat my IBS? Can one successfully treat their ME but have IBS remain as it was pre-ME onset (a lot of people have IBS but not ME)?
Because if my ME can't be successfully treated unless the IBS dissipates as well I am in trouble since I've never been able to crack the IBS nut for any length of time beyond a week or two here and there. So essentially, I hope IBS and ME are not just two sides of the same coin.

There's a big ANS connection here. My gut can be fine while feeling safe, and then bam, the anticipatory anxiety of something causes the classic spastic colon symptoms. So I wonder how this vaccine, or other classic ME treatments such as antivirals or Ampligen etc address this issue that seems to be beyond just pathogens. Perhaps it's in their immune modulation characteristics.

I don't know. Always more questions than answers in this puzzle!

Sorry if this post is confusing and slightly off topic.

 

[Hip]

My box of the non-adsorbed version of the Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine from rupharma.com arrived yesterday in the UK. Alexei shipped it from Moscow on 26 April, so that means it took just 8 days to arrive (I asked him to ship from Moscow, rather than Lithuania, because Moscow is quicker).

 

[ECAsson]

I got hold of the vaccines today. Tomorrow I'll have my first 0,1 ml shot.

 

[markiz2001]

Main outcome measures were the proportion of responders according to global ratings and the proportion of patients with a symptom reduction of > or =50% on a 15-item subscale derived from the comprehensive psychopathological rating scale (CPRS).

i dont understand this.

this seems to be helping psychiatric symptoms, right? how do you know the improvement is real, and not just statistical improvement on non-existant symptoms? what is a CPRS scale and is it relevant?

 

[Hip]

@markiz2001
I have not been able to find a copy of the CPRS scale, to see what questions are asked; but in this study it says:

The CPRS is an observer rating scale and thus less sensitive to placebo reactions. The CPRS items that showed significant improvement in the vaccine group, namely ‘being worried’, ‘fatiguability’, ‘concentration difficulties’, ‘memory difficulties’, ‘sleep difficulties’, ‘vegetative symptoms’ and ‘pain’, are all common symptoms in fibromyalgia / chronic fatigue syndrome.

You can get the full paper on Sci Hub.

There are a few ME/CFS symptoms that are cognitive or mental — see this post for a discussion of this.

 

[rosie26]

The questions that boggle my mind and has done so since my acute onset of ME in 2011 is will a successful ME treatment also treat my IBS? Can one successfully treat their ME but have IBS remain as it was pre-ME onset (a lot of people have IBS but not ME)?
Because if my ME can't be successfully treated unless the IBS dissipates as well I am in trouble since I've never been able to crack the IBS nut for any length of time beyond a week or two here and there. So essentially, I hope IBS and ME are not just two sides of the same coin.

There's a big ANS connection here. My gut can be fine while feeling safe, and then bam, the anticipatory anxiety of something causes the classic spastic colon symptoms. So I wonder how this vaccine, or other classic ME treatments such as antivirals or Ampligen etc address this issue that seems to be beyond just pathogens. Perhaps it's in their immune modulation characteristics.

I don't know. Always more questions than answers in this puzzle!

The IBS could have been one of your early symptoms of ME in that it started in the gut. And then the rest of your ME flared later?

I had a lot gut symptoms in my severe years and many years after. But from reading other members gut issues I haven't had the gut IBS as bad as they, although it felt bad enough for me. I mainly get gut symptoms caused by ANS. Plus I think I get some other kind of toxicity during a severe bout, as I did also in the severe years.

I think the research into ME will find answers or get closer to answers to the gut problems.

 

[hvac14400]

so.
i got the vaccs long time ago but was unable to use them because of some health complication and because of fear, that my immune system just wouldn't handle the load, that am attempting to place on it. coz i got secondary immunodeficiency, very calorie restricted diet at that time, 3 gym session per week and ongoing cycle of some immunomodulator on top of that
then i injuried my lowback pretty hard doing heavy deadlifting on a cut (what a surprise ), so decided to drop one (legs) workout completely - no joy without lifting heavy. and dropped diet also - got plenty of calories and got fat as fuck again
so now i think i can load that immune system up - let's get started.

am using 2 russian vacs (instead of just staph toxoid) in attempt to emulate original vac, discussed in Kristina's thread as closely as possible. plus i got information from some med publications, that doing this really increases efficiency of both of them.
the protocol that am using - you can find it in vaccs boxes - exactly timing and dosages. no any "i've read internet, now i know it all" bullshiet approach here. i don't care what other ppl say or do - if you wanna possibly screw you immunity for life - go for it. there is atleast one member here, who got her cfs from vaccination - just think about this for a sec.

so am injecting myself everyday - some days 1 shot, others 2 shots. in this way after just a 2weeks i'll be done - no need to wait for months, as some not that bright "specialists" may think of, lol.

here is a pic after 3 days and first 3 shots - http://posoni.ru/P51k60166.JPG

you can see some redness, but nothing special/major. there is 1 shot on the right of a pic (antifagin) and 2 shots on the left (antifagin and anatoxin). i got no reaction (yet) from anatoxin, but antifagin is another story - a lil nasty stuff : ) almost immediately well noticeable itching in the place of the shot, as soon as i started pressing on the plunger and especially when pulled the needle out - that feeling got way stronger, for about couple of minutes. then it wanished completely.

here is a pic after approx an 2 hours - hot shower for about 40min and 2 more shots - you can see two lil drops of blood there - http://posoni.ru/P517ll0174.JPG

some more redness (prob because of water/hot water - i know it was a bad idea, but just can't resist from doing that : D)

and finally a pic after a night, approx 8 hours from 5 shots - http://posoni.ru/P5170l178.JPG

so nothing get worse - 5 shots in a just 3 days.

i remember when first time i injected vaccs, there was an sudden onset of fatigue, urge to lay down and urge for sleep after an hour or two. and i was feelin myself exactly the same as when i was "overdosed" on arginine - when my immune system was unable to cope with herpes oubreak anymore. you may sleep all day long and in the end just feelin no rest at all, and just wanna sleep more and more.
but this time such a state was over after just a couple of hours, so i can be completely sure that this vaccs is real shit and they really loading my system up.

would they eliminate cfs in the end? we shall see.

 

[panckage]

so.
the protocol that am using - you can find it in vaccs boxes - exactly timing and dosages

I believe Gottfries said the primary reason for his dosing schedule was to reduce side effects and that starting low is important in the odd case that there is an allergic(?) reaction

Pretty impressed by your results. By the 3rd picture you have either lost 2lbs of belly fat or learned to suck it in like a model

 

[hvac14400]

I believe Gottfries said the primary reason for his dosing schedule was to reduce side effects and that starting low is important in the odd case that there is an allergic(?) reaction

i started low too btw - that's irrelevant to schedule.
if there is any/allergic reaction, then just increase interval between shots - it's as simple as that. and you can read the same in the instruction. Gottfries is a psychiatrist, so you can make your own opinion about his knowledge level (no offence here) in physiology.
i think it's safe to assume, that all his data/findings really came from his friend, who is immunologist by profession, forgot his name.
and it is his friend probably, who stated a hypothesis about real cause of cfs - not the prof. himself. a real reason is not the virus, infection, etc. - it's the autoimmune process against heat shock proteins.

By the 3rd picture you have either lost 2lbs of belly fat or learned to suck it in like a model

that is very pronounced problem with this particular body - it gets all bloated the up by the evening, some swellings appear in different places, then after a night all that bloat and swellings got flushed/wanished, like down the toilet, lol.
that wasn't happening before cfs : \