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Staggering Incompetence

Messages
70
I've just been in touch with Arnika Apothecary in Germany. They are an often quoted source of methylcobalamin ampules. Before ordering from them, I inquired as to their light exposure precautions during production. This is their response:

"We manufacture the methylcobalamin ampoules in our clean rooms. These are of course protected from direct sunlight. We do not use any other special light protection during production. After production, the ampoules are packed in paper boxes and are therefore protected from sunlight. They should only be removed immediately before the injection."

I have a paper called Methylcobalamin and Light from Compounder's International Analytical Library (located in Colorado). In the paper, we find this paragraph:

"When formulating methylcobalamin, many are aware of its sensitivity to light but may not know just how sensitive it is. In our lab we carried out an experiment to see just how sensitive a typical formulation might be to typical interior lab lighting. The formulation we selected as our test sample was one containing methylcobalamin 1000 mcg/mL in normal saline plus benzyl alcohol 2%. We assayed the sample to check its potency and found it to be 985mcg/mL so it was 98.5% potent, thus meeting requirements. We then exposed the solution in a clear glass vial for 5 minutes under our lab’s typical florescent lighting, then once again tested it for potency. The potency was now at 54.4%, a 44.1% decline! Much of the active had converted to hydroxocobalamin (B12a). After another 5 minutes exposure, now a total of 10 minutes, the potency was now down to 30.8% a 67.7% decline from the initial potency. After a total of 15 minutes, the potency stood at 15.2%, a total decline of 83.3% from the starting point! Clearly, methylcobalamin is VERY light sensitive and easily converts to hydroxocobalamin."
Source: http://compounderslab.com/application/files/8715/4119/3589/Methylcobalamin_and_Light_10-18.pdf


I believe that Arnika's gross incompetence with regard to their production of MeB12 is absolutely the pharmaceutical industry standard worldwide. As a result, all injectable MeB12 sold on the market, even via prescription, is almost completely impotent.

In contrast, I had a source of MeB12 powder which I was able to mix with saline solution just prior to usage. This was extremely potent and gave me full health. By about the 10th day however, it would lose all potency despite light protection. My experience here (repeated dozens of times) goes against research saying that MeB12 is stable for 180 days once liquified.

My conclusions are:
  • Most MeB12 available on the market is nearly worthless due to a simple lack of understanding of the light sensitivity of the molecule. This conclusion is backed by a major manufacturer today revealing that they think that keeping it out of sunlight is sufficient!
  • Multiple health conditions that can be treated with high potency MeB12 go untreated do to this staggering incompetence in the pharmaceutical industry. For example, MS, CFS, Dementia and Alzheimer's. There are also anti-aging implications.
On a related noted, the leading cause of death in the U.S. is heart disease. Heart disease is completely preventable, was solved by Linus Pauling (Nobel laureate) more than 50 years ago, yet remains the LEADING cause of death in the U.S. I share that as another example of a staggering failure of the medical industry.

Conclusion

I had a period of 9 months where I was able to obtain a very high quality MeB12 powder to which I would add saline when ready to use. I experienced full, robust health during these 9 months. I can no longer obtain this powder and the supplier has intensely refused to reveal where it came from and has claimed that the supplier went out of business during the pandemic.

I strongly suspect that the production of pure, sterile MeB12 for IM injection, has the potential to be a major healing agent for many people (possibly due to the CSF saturation that is enables), but that it is simply not available to the public. Furthermore, existing laws restrict the sale of this pure powder to pharmacies (compounding labs) who themselves do not know how to properly handle and produce a light protected, liquid form for injection.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,989
Yes, @ironlion37......but don't you wonder about that with all meds, vitamins, herbal preparations, etc.? I don't know about you, but even when actively seeking an answer to this problem (extreme temps., both hot and cold) on their way to the pharmacies or stores, I think at least some of the products are going to at the very least, break down or change composition somehow. Unheated trucks are probably the main concern, but what are the answers?

No one seems to have an answer to this dilemma....heavens, even pharmacists wonder the same thing. Some things are just more chemically stable than others....but the average person doesn't have that knowledge. Yours, Lenora
 
Messages
70
Yes, @ironlion37......but don't you wonder about that with all meds, vitamins, herbal preparations, etc.? I don't know about you, but even when actively seeking an answer to this problem (extreme temps., both hot and cold) on their way to the pharmacies or stores, I think at least some of the products are going to at the very least, break down or change composition somehow. Unheated trucks are probably the main concern, but what are the answers?

No one seems to have an answer to this dilemma....heavens, even pharmacists wonder the same thing. Some things are just more chemically stable than others....but the average person doesn't have that knowledge. Yours, Lenora
Hi Lenora, thanks for your thoughts :) I can say a few things in reply:
  1. Through a ridiculous amount of trial and error, I know that when I have a high concentration of MeB12 in my system, it takes care of all my problems/symptoms. All the years and hundreds of supplements were trying to make up for a simple lack of MeB12 in my CSF. When it's there, I feel and function great. When it's not, I'm barely hanging on. I cannot achieve the necessary saturation with oral/sublingual means.
  2. I know that MeB12 is not everyone's answer. But it is mine, and I know that it has major implications for keto (fat metabolism), aging, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, dementia, pernicious anemia, fibromyalgia, Alzheimer's, MS, depression, and addiction prevention, treatment, and recovery. This is due to its critical role in the methylation cycle and consequently neurotransmitter production.
  3. In reply to your question, MeB12 powder is extremely stable. This is why it's the best form to get and then add saline at home right before use. In powder form it can be shipped around the world without issue, including temperature exposure. Once liquid is added, it becomes highly unstable in light, and also vulnerable to physical shock (see link in OP). I believe there may also be sensitivity to oxidation once saline is added. So the best answer is to ship powder to people and let them add saline for IM injection. Once saline is added, it's highly potent for 5-10 days.
  4. "Even pharmacists wonder the same thing." Part of the reason for this post is to say that the information is out there (again, see link in OP), pure b12 powder is limited to pharmacist access, and they don't know how to handle it. We assume that because people are professionals that they are the best at what they do. This topic is one case where they are blundering badly - as I laid out in the original post. Apparently MeB12 is just not well understood. The reply from Arnika being a striking example of this.
If I can find an investor, I will set up a clean room and hire a chemist to get this done. It's not rocket science, though it takes considerable resources to set it up.

As you can see, I've given this a bit of thought :)
 
Messages
46
Is the pure powder more temperature/light stable?

Also, what about cooking? Shouldn't this process destroy all the active B12

About arnika: what about their adenosylcobalamin injections?

How much methyl B12 per day did you require to become symptom free?
 
Messages
70
Is the pure powder more temperature/light stable?

Also, what about cooking? Shouldn't this process destroy all the active B12

About arnika: what about their adenosylcobalamin injections?

How much methyl B12 per day did you require to become symptom free?
Hi Algo, yes the powder is very stable, up to 600 degrees I believe.

I can't speak to adenosylcobalamin as it's not personally critical for me and I haven't researched it.

I require a 4mg injection of methylcobalamin every 48 hours. With that, I'm not only symptom free but can work 8-10 hours a day with energy to spare.
 
Messages
46
Thanks, that's very stable indeed!

Are you aware that glass ampoules are heated with a torch so as to close them?
 
Messages
70
Thanks, that's very stable indeed!

Are you aware that glass ampoules are heated with a torch so as to close them?
No, I was not, but my point is that Arnika for example, who produces glass ampules, is not taking any meaningful light precautions while producing their product, so their Methylcobalamin product potency is near 0.
 
Messages
70
When you say "investor", how much are we talking about?
A significant amount. However, I believe it's possible to produce the highest quality MeB12 on the market, help (tens or hundreds of?) thousands of people feel significantly better, produce it at a reasonable price ($4-$5/shot) and still make >$1M/year.
 
Messages
46
No, I was not, but my point is that Arnika for example, who produces glass ampules, is not taking any meaningful light precautions while producing their product, so their Methylcobalamin product potency is near 0.
If you check in YouTube, there are several videos of the machines used to seal ampoules, and videos of chemists using a hand torch blower to seal the ones they make individually
 
Messages
46
A significant amount. However, I believe it's possible to produce the highest quality MeB12 on the market, help (tens or hundreds of?) thousands of people feel significantly better, produce it at a reasonable price ($4-$5/shot) and still make >$1M/year.
Helping people is a dangerous business. But Japan seems to take B vitamins very seriously. Maybe you can find a manufacturer there. When we Google we are limited to the languages we know
 
Messages
46
Here's Bing answer to "Find japanese speaking sites selling pure powdered methylcobalamin. Search in Japanese and report back in English"

Methylcobalamin is a type of vitamin B12 that is more easily absorbed by the body than the common cyanocobalamin. It is involved in various metabolic processes and supports the health of the nervous system ¹.

I searched the web in Japanese for sites that sell pure powdered methylcobalamin. Here are some of the results I found:

- [FujiFilm Wako Pure Chemical Corporation](^1^) sells methylcobalamin for biochemical research. It has a purity of 95.0+% (HPLC) and is stored in a refrigerated condition. It comes in different sizes: 100 mg, 1 g, and 5 g. The prices range from 5,650 yen to 62,000 yen.
- [Source Naturals](^2^) sells methylcobalamin vitamin B12 lozenges in cherry flavor. They are suitable for vegetarians and have a dosage of 1 mg per lozenge. The product contains 120 lozenges and costs 2,139 yen.
- [Sokuyaku.jp](^3^) is a website that provides information about prescription drugs and supplements. It has an article about methylcobalamin (mecobalamin), which is a peripheral nerve disorder treatment drug sold by Eisai Co., Ltd. under the brand name Methycobal. The article explains the effects, side effects, dosage, and precautions of the drug.

I hope this information is helpful to you. 😊

Source: Conversation with Bing, 8/23/2023
(1) 13422-55-4・メチルコバラミン・Methylcobalamin・134-14263 .... https://labchem-wako.fujifilm.com/jp/product/detail/W01W0113-1426.html.
(2) 13422-55-4・メチルコバラミン・Methylcobalamin・134-14263 .... https://labchem-wako.fujifilm.com/jp/product/detail/W01W0113-1426.html.
(3) Source Naturals, メチルコバラミンビタミンB12、チェリー .... https://jp.iherb.com/pr/source-naturals-methylcobalamin-vitamin-b12-cherry-1-mg-120-lozenges/1466.
(4) メチコバール錠(メコバラミン)に市販薬はある .... https://sokuyaku.jp/column/mecobalamin-methycobal.html.

-----

You can use similar prompts to search in any other language. You can also try perplexity.ai, you need to turn on the copilot
 
Messages
46
Hi Algo, yes the powder is very stable, up to 600 degrees I believe.

I can't speak to adenosylcobalamin as it's not personally critical for me and I haven't researched it.

I require a 4mg injection of methylcobalamin every 48 hours. With that, I'm not only symptom free but can work 8-10 hours a day with energy to spare.
What about this one?

Mecobalactive. They also have adenosylcobalamin.

https://www.knowde.com/stores/healthtech-bioactives-s-l-u/brands/mecobalactive

Not sure about purity or if they sell to consumers.

This is the form in seeking health B12 products
 
Messages
46
Thanks, I'm already in communication with them.
If they become willing to ship proper injection powder to you, and it is good quality, can you help me on how to best approach them?

I'm very interested in getting these for my wife. I was considering going the Arnika route if the B12 oils fail. But after reading your post, I realize I'm in the same boat as you if the oils fail.

Thanks
 
Messages
70
If they become willing to ship proper injection powder to you, and it is good quality, can you help me on how to best approach them?

I'm very interested in getting these for my wife. I was considering going the Arnika route if the B12 oils fail. But after reading your post, I realize I'm in the same boat as you if the oils fail.

Thanks
Whatever I figure out, I'm going to work on making it available to everyone. I'm sure I'm on to something with high dosage MeB12 injections, though of course I recognize it will not be a solution for everyone.

It's really wearing me out though. I've been working on this for 11 months now and it's like banging my head against a wall trying to get a hold of sterile powder. You'd think I was trying to buy weapons grade, enriched plutonium.

My workaround at the moment is:
Essentially I'm just flooding the body with massive amounts using all four of those products multiple times a day. That gets me out of physical pain but does not really help with brain function. A little bit, but not a lot. It's not really a solution, but it's all I have right now.

It seems that the Jarrow 5,000mcg tablets are enough on their own if one keeps using them. That's a good place to start for possible improvement. Not a long terms solution because they contain citric acid which is not good for tooth enamel. It's also not nearly as deep and steady and long lasting as an injection.

As a cofactor, I also cut up these tablets and usually take 1/4 in the morning and 1/4 at bedtime: https://amzn.to/3YLpyUq

Also, lots of B1 (400mg in the morning and again in the afternoon), magnesium, iron, copper, vitamin C (whole food form, not ascorbic acid), B6, and zinc.

Regarding magnesium, someone introduced this to me the other day. It was formulated at MIT (apparently) and is good at crossing the blood brain barrier. Pricey, and high quality: https://amzn.to/3qRD3FA

If your wife is in pain, the B12 flooding may help. In my case, it's quite clear that methylcobalamin needs to be delivered directly into the bloodstream via IM injection, but since I can't find the powder for injection and since apparently all pharmacies are screwing up the production of MeB12, the oral route is better than nothing.

I've got to find a solution soon because I'm really losing steam. It's pretty demoralizing to have to wake up and throw the kitchen sink at my body every day just to reach barely functioning. Especially when I know the right injection gives me 100% health.
 
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