Significant Improvement Story -- Focus on Thiamine Deficiency

[Little Bluestem]

rebar, what form of B1 are you taking?

 

[rebar]

as thiamine. Solgar 500 mg.

 

[Snowdrop]

Hi all,

Is anyone who was trying the B1 here still on the protocol?

If so what type of B1, how much and how is it working?

Grateful for any info/insights into this.
SD

 

[Little Bluestem]

Anyone?

 

[rebar]

I recently stopped.
It did wonders for me initially, I crashed after a couple of months and after that couldn't seem to adjust my dose.
Some of the benefits have persisted, calmness upon awakening, less of the wired and tired feeling.
If I start to experience either of the above I'll start it again.

 

[Snowdrop]

I recently stopped.
It did wonders for me initially, I crashed after a couple of months and after that couldn't seem to adjust my dose.
Some of the benefits have persisted, calmness upon awakening, less of the wired and tired feeling.
If I start to experience either of the above I'll start it again.

I'm making some choices as to where to spend limited resources for supplements so feedback from others experience is helpful.
Thanks for your response rebar.

 

[Lynn]

Anyone?[/quote

I am still on the protocol. I take 1500 mg/daily. It has changed my life. I am doing things that I have not done in 15 years. But i do have to watch it because I will crash if I do too much.

I was afraid for the past two weeks that the benefit might be wearing off. A couple of weeks ago my doctor put me on T4 in addition to my regular armour thyroid. My decline in energy and ability to do things including standing upright for extended periods of time coincided with the addition of the T4. My sleep was impacted and I now think that the cause of the decline was the T4. It will take another couple of weeks to decide if that was really what it was.

Lynn

 

[Little Bluestem]

I recently stopped.
It did wonders for me initially, I crashed after a couple of months and after that couldn't seem to adjust my dose.
Some of the benefits have persisted, calmness upon awakening, less of the wired and tired feeling.
If I start to experience either of the above I'll start it again.

Sometimes when something works for a while then stops, it is because you have become depleted in another nutrient that functions together with the first. IF that is your situation and IF you can find out what else you need, then the thiamine might 'work' again.

 

[Dannylingo]

Sometimes when something works for a while then stops, it is because you have become depleted in another nutrient that functions together with the first. IF that is your situation and IF you can find out what else you need, then the thiamine might 'work' again.

You are correct! I noticed a pattern with b vitamins. B2 helped me to one point until I added biotin, then biotin helped more when I added magnesium then manganese. Now I am going to try thiamine since I benifited at the first dose. All you guys should note that b1 works together with niacin, biotin, b2 and manganese. Just look at the kreb cycle chart on this link http://www.health-science-spirit.com/HF5-2.html

 

[Lynn]

All you guys should note that b1 works together with niacin, biotin, b2 and manganese. Just look at the kreb cycle chart on this link http://www.health-science-spirit.com/HF5-2.html

@Dannylingo
Thanks for that. I had an extraordinary 6 month run on B1 with more energy than I have had in years.Unfortunately the positive effect has begun to decline for me. I had the worst day yesterday that I have had in months.

I am taking 1500 mg of B-1. Do you have any suggestions on dosage of the niacin, biotin, b2 and manganese? Are there tests that you can take to check your vitamin balance?

Thanks for your help.

Lynn

 

[Dannylingo]

@Dannylingo
Thanks for that. I had an extraordinary 6 month run on B1 with more energy than I have had in years.Unfortunately the positive effect has begun to decline for me. I had the worst day yesterday that I have had in months.

I am taking 1500 mg of B-1. Do you have any suggestions on dosage of the niacin, biotin, b2 and manganese? Are there tests that you can take to check your vitamin balance?

Thanks for your help.

Lynn

I'm not familiar with tests but what I do kno is that thiamine works with basically all the b vitamins work together and vice versa. I find it odd that no were on this forum does people ever consider the Krebs cycle the core of all there ailments.

I personally believe methylation issues is secondary to b1,2,3,5,7 deficiencies. Notice how methyl supplements almost always stimulate you, but don't provide you with atp ? Then you crash.

On the other hand the other b vitamins don't really have a stimulating affect, it's not to say it cant deplete a synergistic vitamin though. For example, if you crash on b1, it coul be anything from niacin to b5 wich work with b1 to form acetyl coa.

If you have too much acetyl coa and not enough oxaloacetate your acetyl coa will go to waste causing less energy. Next what you need to consider is that you is that you might need to pair up b1 with magnesium since they also pair up to activate a different enzyme in an earlier step. If you want to increase oxaloacetate you need to pair up biotin with manganese and nicotinamide.

That will increase ox entering the Krebs cycle to join acetyl coa to produce citric acid wich will give you that energy you need from food. I always wondered why people on this forum never consider studying a little bit of text book biochem to understand what they might be lacking after a vitamin stops working. Usually most of you guys just say "it stopped working" and that the end.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I find it odd that no were on this forum does people ever consider the Krebs cycle the core of all there ailments.

{Waving hand wildly} I do! I do! I think I even said so somewhere here, but I don't know where.

 

[Starfive]

I'm not familiar with tests but what I do kno is that thiamine works with basically all the b vitamins work together and vice versa. I find it odd that no were on this forum does people ever consider the Krebs cycle the core of all there ailments.

I personally believe methylation issues is secondary to b1,2,3,5,7 deficiencies. Notice how methyl supplements almost always stimulate you, but don't provide you with atp ? Then you crash.

On the other hand the other b vitamins don't really have a stimulating affect, it's not to say it cant deplete a synergistic vitamin though. For example, if you crash on b1, it coul be anything from niacin to b5 wich work with b1 to form acetyl coa.

If you have too much acetyl coa and not enough oxaloacetate your acetyl coa will go to waste causing less energy. Next what you need to consider is that you is that you might need to pair up b1 with magnesium since they also pair up to activate a different enzyme in an earlier step. If you want to increase oxaloacetate you need to pair up biotin with manganese and nicotinamide.

That will increase ox entering the Krebs cycle to join acetyl coa to produce citric acid wich will give you that energy you need from food. I always wondered why people on this forum never consider studying a little bit of text book biochem to understand what they might be lacking after a vitamin stops working. Usually most of you guys just say "it stopped working" and that the end.

 

[Starfive]

oooops, just meant to comment on reading a biochem textbook, hmmmmm
I can read a little but can not remember much at all. Also have tons of yellow pads with years of notes of science and supplements that I lack the time to review because I am sleeping so much. Now I don't even know where they are. The ole IQ has been somewhat decimated... no reliable processor.

 

[Wayne]

Also have tons of yellow pads with years of notes of science and supplements that I lack the time to review ... The ole IQ has been somewhat decimated... no reliable processor.

I start out just about every day thinking this is going to be the day I'm going to go through and make some headway on my own piles of yellow post it and other notebook notes. Almost never happens. Sigh...

 

[brenda]

Since finding out l am on the autistic spectrum, and that thiamine has proven helpful for autistic kids, l am keen to give it a try after reading this thread. Is anyone still taking it and has anyone found out why they crashed? Also l see that Co-enzymated Source Naturals contains magnesium stearate which l won't take but can't find an alternative. Has anyone a suggestion please? Thanks for your posts on here Wayne.

 

[BadBadBear]

Interesting thread (albeit a bit dated) - anyone know if supplementing thiamine can improve albumin levels? My serum albumin is always below optimal & does not seem to improve with diet.

 

[howirecovered]

@Dannylingo
Thanks for that. I had an extraordinary 6 month run on B1 with more energy than I have had in years.Unfortunately the positive effect has begun to decline for me. I had the worst day yesterday that I have had in months.

I am taking 1500 mg of B-1. Do you have any suggestions on dosage of the niacin, biotin, b2 and manganese? Are there tests that you can take to check your vitamin balance?

One possibility to consider is that you may have created a folate deficiency which could bring down your methylation system. This is pretty theoretical but I believe the reverse might have happened to me where I created a B-1 deficiency by taking folate.

TheSLC19A1gene encodes a transporter involved in folate and thiamine uptake and may play a role in intracellular folate distribution. I happen to have flaws on that gene which might have something to do with my CFS and toxicity problems.

I'm trying to sort all this out now and in the process of ramping up B-1. will probably post about it on my blog later after I have a little more data.

 

[howirecovered]

there is a related thread here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/is-folate-inhibiting-thiamine-b-1.23392/

 

[presently_distant]

I think it's interesting to note that TPP (an enzyme thiamine works through) is highly dependent on magnesium to function properly. So perhaps it's wise to correct a magnesium deficiency first (I know I definitely have one) and then try to work up to a larger and larger dosage of thiamin. I've had pretty good results by taking Source Naturals Coenzymated B1 (Cocarboxylase). Though, it's got mannitol and another sweetener which I don't think I tolerate very well.

An alternative Cocarboxase I'd like to try has no other ingredients besides distilled water. It's from the UK (I'm in the US) and is pricy, though. But, I'd be willing to experiment.

Some negative effects worth noting from too much B1 are restless sleep (likely due too much acetylcholine being produced). I'm very sensitive in that way to some cholinergic supplements I've noticed. Although at lower doses (I took 5 of the SN sublinguals to cause the detriment) I doubt it'd be a big problem. And maybe the lack of magnesium while supplementing large doses of thiamin is causing this?