Pulse oximeter to measure oxygenation during d-lactic acidosis, air hunger, hyperventilation

[EddieB]

thank you so much!!!!!!!! super interview, things are really moving on now;

I’m glad you found it helpful. I’m usually way behind, by the time I find something it’s old news. I was especially interested in knowing that hydrogen SIBO is dominant in lbs-D and methane in ibs-C.

yes there have been some deaths from FMT

I take that information with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, all these doctors have interests to protect, and are going to promote their methods as the “best”. Do what’s best for you.

I was recently researching a lab (Diagnostic Solutions) that I sent away to for testing. I found a very damning studying on pub med concerning this lab and their process. At the end of the report, I find that the study was funded by Doctors Data, a competitor lab. Bit of a conflicting interest!

Fluoride, as an environmental toxin, causes damage to intestinal mucosa.

This is a tough one. I’ve installed a RO system but the water is highly acidic and I don’t do well drinking it. I even tried adding a mineral cartridge that was of no help. Big waste of time and money. So I’ve had to continue on bottled water. Not good but the lesser of evils.

Probiotics do not work for all of us.

I believe these could be particularly dangerous to those like us with overgrowth.

But it is equally possible to generate both Hydrogen and Methane producing species together

I did a hydrogen test a couple years ago that was below the level (13/20). As my symptoms have shifted from predominantly IBS-D towards C, I suspect methane SIBO as well.

I had along discussion with the gastrologist, and he feels my SIBO may be difficult to detect through testing, and we would be better off to treat rather than test. He has set me up with a two week supply of xifaxan.

So I’m at a crossroads...
- wait for the stool testing to be completed, see what that reveals. But stool testing for SIBO is of limited value
- start the xifaxan and hope for the best
- try and get the gastro to add neomycin to the xifaxan for the methane

 

[kangaSue]

I did find something of immense interest in the interview; that of 'Lovastatin', which is being used to reduce Methane in Constipation. This could be of great value to me if I can find out where to procure a trial in the UK (anyone trialed Lovastatin yet)?

I was reading a paper the other day that said simvastatin (and I think, pravastatin) were also beneficial for methanogens induced constipation but can't locate the article again.

Simvastatin and lovastatin are the most similar though in being lactone forms of statins administered as an inactive lactone form that is converted to the active form in the body (pravastatin is administered in active acid form). A common factor to all three is that they are fungally derived so maybe that has a bearing on effect on methanogens.

A considerable amount of lovastatin (and I'm assuming simvastatin too) is converted to hydroxyacid in the stomach and is absorbed there though so SYN-101 is being developed as a modified release, oral formulation of lovastatin that doesn't get absorbed in the stomach. I suppose it would be possible to crush a regular tablet then put the powder (or just some of it, dose of it might be an issue this way) into an empty enteric coated gel capsule.
https://www.jpharmsci.org/article/S0022-3549(17)30686-X/pdf
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.312782

EDIT: It's mentioned in the following paper that a dose of 42 mg/day of SYN-010 for as little as seven days was demonstrated to significantly reduce methane production when compared to placebo in a multi-centred double-blind RCT (152).
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2019.00363/full

 

[Avenger]

I was reading a paper the other day that said simvastatin (and I think, pravastatin) were also beneficial for methanogens induced constipation but can't locate the article again.

Simvastatin and lovastatin are the most similar though in being lactone forms of statins administered as an inactive lactone form that is converted to the active form in the body (pravastatin is administered in active acid form). A common factor to all three is that they are fungally derived so maybe that has a bearing on effect on methanogens.

A considerable amount of lovastatin (and I'm assuming simvastatin too) is converted to hydroxyacid in the stomach and is absorbed there though so SYN-101 is being developed as a modified release, oral formulation of lovastatin that doesn't get absorbed in the stomach. I suppose it would be possible to crush a regular tablet then put the powder (or just some of it, dose of it might be an issue this way) into an empty enteric coated gel capsule.
https://www.jpharmsci.org/article/S0022-3549(17)30686-X/pdf
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.312782

EDIT: It's mentioned in the following paper that a dose of 42 mg/day of SYN-010 for as little as seven days was demonstrated to significantly reduce methane production when compared to placebo in a multi-centred double-blind RCT (152).
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2019.00363/full

Thank you kangaSue and Eddie B,
I have been pretty unwell for a few days after maintaining my Carbohydrate intake to have further investigations and still weak and badly fatigued so may not be up to much; but I am very interested in a number of points that you raised! Starting with lovastatin etc. being Fungal derived. I was thinking of using Sacharomyces Boulardii, which is known to combat Candida (which can also produce D-Lactate), but I also see my D-Lactic symptoms as IBS-C. Most of what I have read refers to Archaea as the cause of Methane production; so is it possible that Archaea are a possible cause of D-Lactic producing Bacteria through motility or that Methane is supporting D-Lactic overgrowth in some other way? Some Bacteria thrive on Methane.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lovastatin+methane+reduction+in+D-Lactic+acidosis
Lovastatin lactone may improve irritable bowel syndrome with ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC4909102

by SM Muskal · 2016 · Cited by 13 — Statin lactones may thus exert a methane-reducing effect that is distinct from cholesterol ... 275 amino acid residues], and evolutionarily related F420-dependent ... C, D were used, while two sites were identified in models leveraging template chains ... Pérez-Gil J, Rodríguez-Concepción M: Metabolic plasticity for isoprenoid ...


I have a diagnosis of D-La; but after 20 years of being diagnosed with ME/CFS and even Fibromyalgia my own belief is that is is not as uncommon as believed. D-La like C.Diff is just a form of Bacterial Overgrowth or a side effect of IBS-C/IBS-D; but with these problems other systemic symptoms are not properly taken into account by Doctors and there may be other milder organic acids where motility and abdominal pain/bloating are the only symptoms.

My main belief is that anyone who can gain Bacterial Overgrowth would not be precluded from D-Lactic producing Bacteria. But in those with resection etc. it may be more pronounced. Many with ME/CFS with Gastrointestinal symptoms may be sub-clinical for D-Lactate with levels fluctuating into more serious symptoms, but without easily accessible tests all other investigations for ME/CFS will remain normal (as those with D-Lactic acidosis also have unremarkable investigations despite serious symptoms during exacerbation's ).

During milder periods of illness my symptoms are often only; abnormal fatigue, systemic symptoms including pain, headaches, ringing ears, gastrointestinal symptoms including delayed stomach emptying, reflux or feeling sick, with delayed symptoms after activity and more pronounced symptoms at times including breathing difficulty and hyperventilation, memory and cognitive difficulty (from dizzy to drunk like). I believe that this may all come down to levels of 'infection' or Overgrowth, because D-Lactic Bacterial Overgrowth is a hidden infection that makes me feel like I have Flu Symptoms at times; it is hidden because I do not generate a temperature when I am unwell, because (mainly) only the metabolites enter my bloodstream. It is also probable that there may be a number of other Organic Acids that can cause similar symptoms.

It is also my belief that this misguided understanding of D-Lactic acidosis has led to the belief that it only exists for resection/jejunal-ileo bypass patients.

https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-content/uploads/sites/199/2014/06/Parrish-September-15.pdf

NUTRITION ISSUES IN GASTROENTEROLOGY, SERIES #145 Luke White, D.O. Department of Critical Care Medicine, Memorial Hospital, South Bend, IN D-Lactic Acidosis: More Prevalent Than We Think?
Luke White, D.O. Department of Critical Care Medicine, Memorial Hospital, South Bend;

''D-lactate acidosis, in which the D-isomer of lactate accumulates, may be more prevalent than once thought. This uncommon disorder has been reported in the setting of short bowel syndrome, and in particular, with high carbohydrate diets in children. Mental status changes and gait instability, the classic symptoms of D-lactate buildup, may not immediately lead the clinician to consider this uncommon disorder. The purpose of this article is to present information about D-lactate that will increase the readers’ level of vigilance for this disorder, which affects a broader group of patients than initially thought. ''

New #704
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ysfunction-gofundme.79048/reply?quote=2328857

 

[EddieB]

Sorry you are not feeling well. Struggling myself, I tried taking a small amount of allicin and coconut oil several days ago and it seems to have really upset things.

I have posted this info elsewhere, not sure if you saw it. I am looking at doing two new tests I have discovered.
One is a new SIBO breath test that checks for hydrogen, methane and hydrogen sulfide.
https://www.triosmartbreath.com/

The other tests for antibodies from food poisoning.
https://www.ibssmart.com/

When you feel up to it, please take a look and see what you think. From what I’m reading, the hydrogen sulfide sibo is more difficult to control, because it is an Archaea not bacteria. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[kangaSue]

There are other elements as well that can contribute to a gut bacterial imbalance including bile acid (and secondary bile acids) issues, and the balance of fungi (mycobiome) within the intestinal microbiome, so the latter may also be implicated with candida being able to contribute to causing D-lactate (most articles suggest a mycobiome imbalance tends to involve diarrhea though, but no doubt there'salways going to be exceptions to the general rule)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6712173/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-79478-6

For bile acids;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7284594/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5203956/

 

[EddieB]

There are other elements as well that can contribute to a gut bacterial imbalance

I am trying to find out as much as possible, within reason, to see what I’m dealing with. Or not dealing with, if nothing turns up. Multiple tests pending, we’ll see.

 

[kangaSue]

There are other elements as well that can contribute to a gut bacterial imbalance

I am trying to find out as much as possible, within reason, to see what I’m dealing with. Or not dealing with, if nothing turns up. Multiple tests pending, we’ll see.

One other thing that might get overlooked can be the use of probiotics. These can just as easily cause a bacterial imbalance too, so are not always a benign supplement to be loading up on.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6006167/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404568/

 

[EddieB]

These can just as easily cause a bacterial imbalance too, so are not always a benign supplement to be loading up on.

Absolutely. A doctor recommended that I take vsl-3 a few years ago, l didn’t notice anything drastic at the time, but I’m a lot sicker now, and it may have made my situation much worse. I've stayed away from them since, but the damage may already be done.

 

[EddieB]

I would also add antidepressants to that as well. I’ve posted this elsewhere, but I truly believe they cause major disruption in the gut. Ive seen it myself, and have read dozens of testimonials of people that also developed digestive issues from antiDs. Many became severe with withdrawal, and had continued long lasting effects.

I’m not saying this is the case for everyone, as many take probiotics and/ or antidepressants with good results. It’s just something to be aware of, particularly if you are already having pre existing digestive troubles.